Dentals

[FantasyVesperia]

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I forgot to ask this question, but during my internship the RVT was performing a dental on a cat, and she had to be sedated. Do you always have to sedate a cat when doing a dental? I was just curious, because I don't come in until next week.

 

[Lissarae06]

I forgot to ask this question, but during my internship the RVT was performing a dental on a cat, and she had to be sedated. Do you always have to sedate a cat when doing a dental? I was just curious, because I don't come in until next week.

For all of the dentals I have seen, the animal was completely anesthetized. I think it is unethical to do un-anesthetized dentals because it causes unnecessary stress and pain to the animal.

 

[LetItSnow]

I forgot to ask this question, but during my internship the RVT was performing a dental on a cat, and she had to be sedated. Do you always have to sedate a cat when doing a dental? I was just curious, because I don't come in until next week.

I know people do 'standing' dentals, but I think it's a waste of time. You can't really clean well under the gingiva with an awake dog/cat, and I'm hard-pressed to imagine doing good dental radiographs on an awake animal (and I believe radiographs are an essential part of every dental, though I know people disagree on that).

So to my way of thinking: If the animal isn't fully anesthetized, you aren't doing a good dental. You might be cleaning the calculus/tartar off the crowns, but that's about it. And that's not a dental that provides good care: it's just making the visible part of their teeth white.

 

[EdinBelle]

I know people do 'standing' dentals, but I think it's a waste of time. You can't really clean well under the gingiva with an awake dog/cat, and I'm hard-pressed to imagine doing good dental radiographs on an awake animal (and I believe radiographs are an essential part of every dental, though I know people disagree on that).

So to my way of thinking: If the animal isn't fully anesthetized, you aren't doing a good dental. You might be cleaning the calculus/tartar off the crowns, but that's about it. And that's not a dental that provides good care: it's just making the visible part of their teeth white.

Agreed. And I also don't think it's really safe for the person cleaning either. I mean, even the friendliest dog/cat will bite you when you start working around their mouth and they are scared!!

Fun fact: when I was a little kid, I bit my dentist =D. He had to pull a tooth and I warned him a few times that he was hurting me and he didn't stop so I bit him!! Maybe I shoulda be anesthetized =D

 

[jmo1012]

Agreed. And I also don't think it's really safe for the person cleaning either. I mean, even the friendliest dog/cat will bite you when you start working around their mouth and they are scared!!

Fun fact: when I was a little kid, I bit my dentist =D. He had to pull a tooth and I warned him a few times that he was hurting me and he didn't stop so I bit him!! Maybe I shoulda be anesthetized =D

aww i always wanted to bite the dentist! there's still time, i don't plan on dying any time soon (and the guy my family currently uses is a total JERK!)

anyone ever done hand scaling? those who have probably appreciate anesthetized dental cleaning even more! the first job i had clients occasionally requested it. yeah sure, we'll totally do a decent job on your very wiggly pet

and fun fact of the day, i did my first dental today. and it was on a pug with nasty NASTY teeth. grade 3 periodontal disease nasty. and the only reason the owner did it was because the dog needed anesthesia for anal glad infusion

 

[FantasyVesperia]

Thanks guys. It just looked weird to me lol. I'll try to ask more questions next time, I was kind of busy washing dental and surgery equipment for 2 hours...

 

[zanydogz]

Thanks guys. It just looked weird to me lol. I'll try to ask more questions next time, I was kind of busy washing dental and surgery equipment for 2 hours...

As far as I'm aware of, the animal is under anesthesia. I know with the clinic I work for, I've never seen a standing up dental. For us, its just too risky without anesthesia for us techs to get bit. Plus I can't imagine doing an extraction without some sort of sedative.

 

[OwlandPussycat]

I've seen grooming facilities offer cleanings without sedation, but never in a medical practice. There's no way you can thoroughly clean AND polish all teeth, take dental rads, and accurately identify all of the teeth that need extractions without anesthesia.
If you think the dental probe hurts on your gums, think of how it must feel on a grade 3 or 4 mouth. 😱

 

[sunnex3]

i had to get a deep dental cleaning a few months back and that was PAINFUL. so i'd hate to think what it would feel like to a dog/cat that has no idea what is going on 😱

 

[Whyevernot55]

Something else that hasn't been mentioned is that for a true scaling and polishing, you are going to be working with water in the animal's mouth. First, I can't imagine any cat holding still for THAT. Second, having the animal anesthetized and intubated helps to protect their airway - without the tube, you have a higher risk of the animal aspirating water into its lungs.

And yes, doing a "standing dental" or a hand scaling or whatever the groomers are calling it today is totally pointless. Good luck getting to the molars, or taking x-rays, let alone that you're going to have to anesthetize anyways to be able to extract anything.

 

[abbercadaver]

We use a preanesthetic with all of our surgeries (ace/atropine injectables).

Sometimes with older animals, we just use that combo to hand scale the teeth. Of course it's not as effective as if the animal were fully sedated, but it's better than nothing in our patients who have had or we suspect will have a hard time under full anesthesia.

As long as their body can handle the anesthesia, we sedate everything.

 

[StartingoverVet]

And yes, doing a "standing dental" or a hand scaling or whatever the groomers are calling it today is totally pointless. Good luck getting to the molars, or taking x-rays, let alone that you're going to have to anesthetize anyways to be able to extract anything.

I don't think it is totally pointless. Is it equivalent to a dental? Absolutely not. But so what. It is not meant for extractions, but to keep the teeth healthier longer, and hopefully extend the time between use of anesthesia, and provide some health benefits.

Biggest danger to me is people who think it is the same, but there is no question you can scrape a fair amount of plaque off in a standing dental.

A lot of it is a matter of the experience of the person doing it, and the fractiousness of the animal.

 

[FantasyVesperia]

So you guys are saying that having the animal and intubated is not only better for the animal but keeps its teeth healthy.

 

[PetPony]

So you guys are saying that having the animal and intubated is not only better for the animal but keeps its teeth healthy.

I think they mean it keeps their teeth healthier because they have a better chance to really clean everything up.

 

[OwlandPussycat]

So you guys are saying that having the animal and intubated is not only better for the animal but keeps its teeth healthy.

Anesthesia always comes with risks, which is why a vet must evaluate the pet's health before ok'ing it to be put under. But yes, having the pet anesthetized allows you do perform a much more thorough dental than would ever be possible. And as was pointed out, it also prevents them from aspirating the copious amounts of water that are usually involved (due to the fact that the animal is intubated with a tube that essentially seals off their trachea).

A curette would involve less water than an ultrasonic scaler, and I imagine this is what they use in standing dentals. It would be better than nothing, but not nearly as beneficial as a full dental. Anecdotally, I've also heard that without polishing, tarter builds up much more quickly afterwards.

 

[orca2011]

A curette would involve less water than an ultrasonic scaler, and I imagine this is what they use in standing dentals. It would be better than nothing, but not nearly as beneficial as a full dental. Anecdotally, I've also heard that without polishing, tarter builds up much more quickly afterwards.

The tech who taught me how to do a dental told me this as well. I believe she said that you're actually causing microscopic scratches on the teeth when cleaning them, so polishing helps give back some of that protection to prevent the tartar from building up quickly again.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[bbeventer]

The tech who taught me how to do a dental told me this as well. I believe she said that you're actually causing microscopic scratches on the teeth when cleaning them, so polishing helps give back some of that protection to prevent the tartar from building up quickly again.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I have been told this too. I have never seen a dental where the animal was not fully under.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I wouldn't do a dental on just a sedated animal, either - way too much of a chance for aspiration and subsequent pneumonia for my liking.

Tons of water and plaque and stuff getting thrown and sprayed around in the mouth - I want that airway protected. Sedated animals can easily gasp or inhale sharply, and then you get a bunch of bacteria-laden junk down the trachea on the way to the lungs.

Full intubation and anesthesia, definitely.

 

[kakurubird]

The tech who taught me how to do a dental told me this as well. I believe she said that you're actually causing microscopic scratches on the teeth when cleaning them, so polishing helps give back some of that protection to prevent the tartar from building up quickly again.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I've definitely heard this also. I imagine it's like having to scratch a surface to seed a precipitation in a chemical reaction. Things just don't accumulate on smooth surfaces as much as on bumpy surfaces.


And, yeah, if you've seen how messy a dental can get, it should be much more clear why you wouldn't to risk an animal inhaling any of that.

 

[ducktoller]

apart from obvious pain, it is just the animal's natural reactions to wince at pain (their pain receptors!) and close their mouth when it is being opened for an unnecessarily long time. We did a dental on a cat using a milder drug to sedate the animal, and not complete anaesthesia and it was pretty bad. The cat was basically asleep but she kept shrinking away during scaling. Very stressful on the vet AND the animal.

 

[Hotfillyky]

Yes, when a dental is performed on an animal it should be fully anesthetized and intubated. To do a standing dental is dangerous for animal and human. I have worked with a dvm who wanted to do these and I flat out refused. You can't do a truly good job of scaling without the anesthesia. Not to mention that you cheat the client if you do that and they are charged for a dental. (Idiot that I worked with did that) Yes, you do make scratches on the teeth when scaling so polishing is essential. Yes, anethesia always carries a risk. In an ideal situation, pre-op bloodwork has been done.

At my clinic, we require pre-op BW, they get an IV cath and fluids and are monitored throughout. They also get pain meds, etc...

Let's not forget that a dirty mouth can lead to bacteria entering the bloodstream and damaging vital organs. Some ppl are reluctant to do dentals but when you explain things well, they become much more compliant.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

Yes, when a dental is performed on an animal it should be fully anesthetized and intubated. To do a standing dental is dangerous for animal and human. I have worked with a dvm who wanted to do these and I flat out refused. You can't do a truly good job of scaling without the anesthesia. Not to mention that you cheat the client if you do that and they are charged for a dental. (Idiot that I worked with did that) Yes, you do make scratches on the teeth when scaling so polishing is essential. Yes, anethesia always carries a risk. In an ideal situation, pre-op bloodwork has been done.

At my clinic, we require pre-op BW, they get an IV cath and fluids and are monitored throughout. They also get pain meds, etc...

Let's not forget that a dirty mouth can lead to bacteria entering the bloodstream and damaging vital organs. Some ppl are reluctant to do dentals but when you explain things well, they become much more compliant.

THIS. 👍👍👍

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[Hotfillyky]

THIS. 👍👍👍

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Thanks! We try very hard......and it took me a loooonnnngggg time in the field to find a veterinarian this good.😍 I want to be just like her when I grow up.😀

 

[Abnerrs]

Thanks! We try very hard......and it took me a loooonnnngggg time in the field to find a veterinarian this good.😍 I want to be just like her when I grow up.😀

We do the same!!! We actually just include it in the price so less whining lol

 

[Hotfillyky]

We do the same!!! We actually just include it in the price so less whining lol

Yep, we include it too. They get a thorough explanation of why we require the BW and IVC and that makes it much easier. Pretty much goes for any surgery. Also get pain meds for invasive surgeries. Unfortunately, you still get some ppl who want to know why since the pets don't feel pain.....sure, let me just cut you open and rip some of your junk out before I sew you back together again.

 

[hopefulinva]

Yep, we include it too. They get a thorough explanation of why we require the BW and IVC and that makes it much easier. Pretty much goes for any surgery. Also get pain meds for invasive surgeries. Unfortunately, you still get some ppl who want to know why since the pets don't feel pain.....sure, let me just cut you open and rip some of your junk out before I sew you back together again.

Maybe they should sit in while their animal is recovering. Or handle their kitty's mouth before hitting them with buprenex. You know, either way.

 

[Hotfillyky]

Maybe they should sit in while their animal is recovering. Or handle their kitty's mouth before hitting them with buprenex. You know, either way.

Exactly! Better yet, how about we just tell their surgeon and anesthesiologist, no pain meds cause there won't be any pain post-op. As someone who has had multiple surgical procedures there is PLENTY of pain. If owners thought in terms of themselves, it would be different.😀

 

[abbercadaver]

Unfortunately, not all cities/areas can allow for all the good stuff. 🙁

My clinic is by far the best in the town (doctors are amazing, good quality medicine, clean facilities, etc....The other I know for a fact the doctor punches animals in the face if they are too rowdy....😱).

But no one cares how "good" the care and facility are if they are paying $40 more per spay/neuter. That's how it is in small towns. 🙁

We require bloodwork on older patients (8+) and recommend it on all, along with ECGs, pain meds, etc...but hardly anyone will do it. We would love to include these in our price, but if we did, we would have very few customers left.

 

[Hotfillyky]

Unfortunately, not all cities/areas can allow for all the good stuff. 🙁

My clinic is by far the best in the town (doctors are amazing, good quality medicine, clean facilities, etc....The other I know for a fact the doctor punches animals in the face if they are too rowdy....😱).

But no one cares how "good" the care and facility are if they are paying $40 more per spay/neuter. That's how it is in small towns. 🙁

We require bloodwork on older patients (8+) and recommend it on all, along with ECGs, pain meds, etc...but hardly anyone will do it. We would love to include these in our price, but if we did, we would have very few customers left.

It gets better....I think that the better you can explain why you want to do stuff the more successful you are. Most ppl want to do right by their pets but not ever doctor can explain it plainly.

We have low cost spay/neuter clinics in our area and some of our clients have gone there. Now I applaud them doing the spay/neuter but they aren't knowledgeable enough about post op pain control. Then they come to us worried about the animal and its recovery. Plus they don't always use an inhalant and that just scares me.😱 To be fair, I have done spay/neuter clinics and worked in humane societies.

Keep tryin' I was amazed at the number of ppl who were willing to do more with a better explanation of why. As the tech, I get the ready for the doctor and part of that is telling them what they need. I am very plain spoken and I think most clients appreciate that.🙂