Dentist career

[xia101010]

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I got acceptance to Boston Dental and now I am debating even if I should quit my job that paying me 75K quit and go. I do have an interest in dentistry but at what cost ? I do not buy the pre-dent/pre-med ideas that we have passions so we want to pursue. Most guys are flocking to health professions(MD/DDS) as they think big $$. Does it make any sense to pursue this route even? My guess is that average earning of a dentist is around 90K after paying all taxes etc. - this is waht some of the general dentists get paid, these are just insurance regulated rates. I am talking of average dentist population. Posting here to get views from experienced folks.

 

[deleted158872]

why did you even apply to dental school?

defer for a year and decide?

 

[xia101010]

What will a year defer do? I should be able to get some views here and else where and decide. Got 2 weeks to put down payment. Why I applied? I have a biology background but work in finance area so my 4 years of bio was worthless. I wanted to see if I can do something with it, but have thoughts on moving on when I read gloomy pictures of docs with heavy loan.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

You gotta balance out the pros and cons of doing dentistry. I went into dentistry because I eventually want to be my own boss some day, and make a decent income. 90k after taxes is pretty darn good if you ask me, but maybe it's not enough for you. I'm not into nice cars, boats, planes or having a huge house so that money is good enough to live for me.

Most people don't go into dentistry due to their love for teeth. I'm sure there are some of us out there who are, but more props to them. Being your own boss is the most crucial part of why I chose dentistry. Every job I worked at, the job became menial after time, and the only part of the job that keeps me going is the people who you develop friendships with. Of course, there are some people that you don't get along, and sometimes they give you more headaches and you just ignore them. If I was the boss, I can just fire that person, and hire only people I get along with.

70k/year is good, but how much is that after taxes? 45k? 90k seems to be a huge increase in standard of living.

Let's just say you made 150k as a dentist. So that would be around 110k after taxes. And you pay 30k on your loans every year. That's still 80k/year. And you don't have to listen to anyone. You don't have to work more than 4 days a week. You feel like you're helping people. You can spend more time with your family, and see your kids grow up.

In the end, it's up to you. It's good that you are being realistic about the income potential.

 

[bjpenn]

Owning your own practice, you will be working more than 4 days a week. 30k on your loans for how long? How much do you think you have to collect in your office to take home 150k? 80k a year with kids isn't much.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

A big disclaimer. I'm currently a D3, but I do have a business background, and that's what drew me into dentistry. I appreciate the AMA you put up, and I've learned much from it. Anyways, to answer the questions you asked, but already know the answers to....

You can work more than 4 days a week, or you can work less than 4 days a week. It depends on the office you are buying, or starting up. These are theoretical, yet realistic figures that I put up. For an office that's running at a 65% overhead, you would have to produce 430k to take home 150k. Let's say you take 9 weeks of vacation every year. That's 430k/43 weeks = 10k/week = 2.5k/day.

2.5k/day. How much is the office you're working at making you produce per day? I bet a lot more than that.

80k isn't much if you don't feel like it isn't much. But my parents raised kids on way less than 80k, and we turned out fine. Buy that boat, and 80k isn't much at all. And you pay 30k/year or even more if you can afford it, til your loans are payed off. 20 years, 30 years, 50 years. The longer you can live off only 80k, the faster you can pay it off.

 

[Incis0r]

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[ysrebob]

You need to think about what's important to you.

If it's just money, I'm not sure dentistry is really a better path than any of the other white collar job tracks these days if you're attending an out-of-state or private school. It's really hard to dig yourself out of the kind of debt private schools involve. The comparison depends how much room you have to grow in your current career. At the moment wages/earnings for dentists are still higher than most fields, but that's BEFORE student debt service, self-funded health insurance and retirement, practice loan debt if self-employed. There is already evidence of downward pressure on dentists earnings in the last few years and this is likely to intensify in coming years for various reasons.

If it's idealism/altruism/etc (very rare, I think, depite what everybody says in their interviews), you have a high change of being disillusioned. Day in day out, fixing teeth is an honorable but very unglamorous way to make a living. People are generally not very happy to see you, and in a healthy practice your schedule is hectic. I personally happen to like it (most days) but for most of us it is just a job.

If it's to be your own boss, dentistry remains a terrific option as long as you don't rack up too much student debt; this is an excellent reason for choosing this profession, maybe the best. Main reason I went into this field: I like working for myself and always have. Personally had to take the military route to make this happen, not something I ever thought I would do, didn't enjoy it but my 4 years service have just ended and it was worthwhile. Boston U is not cheap I am sure. Have you figured out how long it will take you to pay off your student loans to a level where cash flow from a practice purchase can cover both practice debt and student debt? Very important to get an idea of this.

BOTTOM LINE: if you're just looking to get rich and are a smart capable person, you probably have better career options than this one unless you can get the DDS degree cheaply. If you're in it for idealism or to wear a white coat and feel important, you will probably be disillusioned. If you mostly just want to be your own boss and have an honest little business that can safely support a family and leave you some free time outside of work, this profession might be great for you, but private school tuition debt will handicap or delay you to some extent in reaching this goal.

 

[yappy]

I got acceptance to Boston Dental and now I am debating even if I should quit my job that paying me 75K quit and go. I do have an interest in dentistry but at what cost ? I do not buy the pre-dent/pre-med ideas that we have passions so we want to pursue. Most guys are flocking to health professions(MD/DDS) as they think big $$. Does it make any sense to pursue this route even? My guess is that average earning of a dentist is around 90K after paying all taxes etc. - this is waht some of the general dentists get paid, these are just insurance regulated rates. I am talking of average dentist population. Posting here to get views from experienced folks.

Don't do it. Stay where you're at.

 

[charlestweed]

OP, you have to ask yourself. Will you be able to keep this current $75k/year job until you reach your retirement age? If you get laid off, will it be easy for you to find another job that pays the same? If the answers are yes to both then I agree with the above poster that you should just keep your current job and forget about spending crazy amount of money for dental school. Many of my older dental classmates quit their good paying engineering jobs to go back to study dentistry because they realized that they wouldn’t be able to keep their jobs when they get older. My classmates were very happy with their decisions but that was 10-15 years ago when the dental school tuitions were not as high as they are today.

Dentistry is a good profession but it requires a lot of hard work and responsibilities. As a dentist, you may have to work harder than what you are doing right now at your current job. The majority of the general dentists, that I know who have practiced for 10-15 years like me, have complained to me about having back pain problems…and how stressful it is to run a practice. So why can’t these dentists just take things easy and hire an associate dentist to help them? It’s not that simple. The more successful they are, the harder they have to work in order to maintain the successful business. It’s incorrect to assume that when you have a successful practice and become well known in the community, you can just take things easy (ie working 2-3days/ week) and just let your associate dentist and staff do everything for you. Nobody cares about your office the same way that you do. Your patients choose your office and refer their friends to you because of your good reputation that you’ve worked so hard to build over the years. When you start taking things easy, when you are not there to take good care of your patients, when your inexperienced associate dentist makes a lot of bad clinical decisions, and when you let your staff do whatever they want, your practice starts to go down very quickly.

 

[DocJL]

OP, how old are you?

Where are you at in your life? Married? wife work? does she have a high earning job? kids? PLAN on having kids?

btw you are off on average dentist income by about half. The most accurate dental income info is available from the ADA, based on surveys. The average general dentist makes closer to 200k, once a few years out of school.


Also, how much is tuition and fees where you got in? Are you from the area? do you have family you can live with during school (if you are still at the stage in your life where this is possible)? If married and your wife has a career - would she have to move and uproot her career?

Lots of factors at play here - need more info to help you.

 

[Incis0r]

OP, how old are you?

Where are you at in your life? Married? wife work? does she have a high earning job? kids? PLAN on having kids?

btw you are off on average dentist income by about half. The most accurate dental income info is available from the ADA, based on surveys. The average general dentist makes closer to 200k, once a few years out of school.

Can you post a link to that survey?

 

[DocJL]

http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/10_sdpi.ashx



per owner dentist: Average net income: $ 219,237



The above number is for OWNER dentists. The survey breaks down income much more specifically for non-owners, younger practitioners, general vs. specialists, etc, etc. The above number is for ALL dentists, including specialists (who I believe are close to 20% of the total number of dentists). There are also surveys available for the different dental specialties.


I have seen many sources on dentist income, many are ridiculously low, or ridiculously high.

The numbers on these ADA surveys, IMO, are very close to reality.

 

[Incis0r]

http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science and Research/HPI/Files/10_sdpi.ashx



per owner dentist: Average net income: $ 219,237



The above number is for OWNER dentists. The survey breaks down income much more specifically for non-owners, younger practitioners, general vs. specialists, etc, etc. The above number is for ALL dentists, including specialists (who I believe are close to 20% of the total number of dentists). There are also surveys available for the different dental specialties.


I have seen many sources on dentist income, many are ridiculously low, or ridiculously high.

The numbers on these ADA surveys, IMO, are very close to reality.

Thank you! Just to confirm, average net income is pretax but it is after having paid off practice loans/OH/etc. right?

 

[DocJL]

Thank you! Just to confirm, average net income is pretax but it is after having paid off practice loans/OH/etc. right?

It IS pretax, but it has nothing to do with the amount of debt one carries. It IS after office overhead/ expenses. The same page where I quoted the average dentists' net income states the average dentists revenue/gross receipts are around 750k I believe. Again, IMO, very realistic numbers. Spend some time scrolling through the entire survey in the link I provided. Very interesting info, very well put together. The chart where dentist income is broken down by percentiles and even into mean values not averages is particularly relevant.


Also, IMO, and THIS is just conjecture, based on the upward trend of dental school costs and loans, making it more difficult to become a sole practice owner, and the increased number of grads, I would expect mean incomes to stay stagnant, or even go lower relative to the cost of living. Sorry for the doom and gloom. My son wants to be a dentist someday so I have put some thought into this.

The payment you make on your practice note (whether it is a scratch start or purchase an existing one) is paid out of your post tax income. You can "write off" the interest on a business loan as a business expense against your revenue, but the payment comes out of your income. On the flip side, once you own your practice, it will be an asset with a value to sell later (which of course, you will have to pay a chunk of to Uncle Sam, once again, as the tax man always has his hand out when you are a "rich doctor".

 

[Incis0r]

Isn't there something where if you make it a corporation you can pay practice loans etc and significantly cut the taxes you need to fork over to Uncle Sam?

And yep, the falling income is readily visible based on the tables. I agree. What if someone is debt-free after dental school? Do you think that will make having a practice worth it?

 

[DocJL]

Isn't there something where if you make it a corporation you can pay practice loans etc and significantly cut the taxes you need to fork over to Uncle Sam?

And yep, the falling income is readily visible based on the tables. I agree. What if someone is debt-free after dental school? Do you think that will make having a practice worth it?

Way too detailed of a question for a pre-dent student. No telling what your tax/entity/legal options would be in a decade or more when you MIGHT be a practice owner.

Also one that I would say most dentists would not be able to answer in depth. I pay my accountant to handle that stuff, and my wife also manages the finance side of my office, so I would not even want to hazard a guess.

Dentistry will still be an good job that allows one to earn in the top 10th percentile, and to live a comfortable upper middle class life, but don't expect to get "rich" doing it. It is also very demanding work, mentally and physically. I LOL at the posts that think dentists live an easy life and just sit back and collect the big bucks by virtue of having a DDS/DMD degree.

 

[Superdentist64]

I got acceptance to Boston Dental and now I am debating even if I should quit my job that paying me 75K quit and go. I do have an interest in dentistry but at what cost ? I do not buy the pre-dent/pre-med ideas that we have passions so we want to pursue. Most guys are flocking to health professions(MD/DDS) as they think big $$. Does it make any sense to pursue this route even? My guess is that average earning of a dentist is around 90K after paying all taxes etc. - this is waht some of the general dentists get paid, these are just insurance regulated rates. I am talking of average dentist population. Posting here to get views from experienced folks.

Any profession becomes a routine after a while. You should choose a profession by what kind of lifestyle is it gonna provide you with. In dentistry you have to be versatile: great people skills, good with your hands, good sense of esthetics and function. You have to love people and create nice things otherwise you are gonna be miserable. There are many options in dentistry: part time full time, employee, contractor, partner, owner, general dentistry, specialties. If you love what you do you will make good money too.