Dentist Salary?

[mascue]

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How much do associate general dentists make in major cities? I see that on salary.com & glassdoor a general dentist in NY is around 150~160k/yr. Is this true even nowadays? Or is this compounded over many years when salaries of associates were higher?

 

[Mycoalwin]

Depends on stage of career. Starting dentists in major CA cities/areas make around 120-130k if you're going straight off daily guarantees and no production incentive, closer to 150-160k outside of saturated areas. I'd assume that'd be the same range for NYC but not exactly sure.

 

[ESPN907]

Look on indeed

 

[luisfigo]

You write your own checks. Want to make 300k? Do Molar Endo, maybe some implants too, don't refer out a lot.

 

[NinjaBox]

Its tough to make 300k, even with molar endo and implants. And molar endo and implants are also tough, some more than others. Some endo so tough its cost prohibitive. Some endo is so easy after a bit. 300k is possible under the write contract, economy, location etc. Just thinking 'hey im good at other things in life, ill just be a great dentist and its all fine', for the most part everyone comes in thinking that, but look at the practicing dentists, not all are that dynamo.

 

[Rambunctious]

You write your own checks. Want to make 300k? Do Molar Endo, maybe some implants too, don't refer out a lot.

OP don't listen to this advice. Do what you're good at and refer the stuff you believe would take you longer or you cant do well (molar endo implants). In the same time this guy can do a ONE molar endo you can probably do multiple crowns fillings and extractions. Refer the hard stuff and increase your production with what you're good at doing.

 

[TanMan]

Its tough to make 300k, even with molar endo and implants. And molar endo and implants are also tough, some more than others. Some endo so tough its cost prohibitive. Some endo is so easy after a bit. 300k is possible under the write contract, economy, location etc. Just thinking 'hey im good at other things in life, ill just be a great dentist and its all fine', for the most part everyone comes in thinking that, but look at the practicing dentists, not all are that dynamo.

I'd be the contrarian here and say it's easy to make 300k+ with molar endo and crowns alone. The reason I didn't include implants is because implants take a bit longer to monetize and failure with a full arch implant prosthetic results in significant losses due to waste of time and lab costs. Molar endo is an important skill to learn, since molars tend to need root canals more than premolars/anteriors (due to first molars being some of the first permanents we get, poor access to oral hygiene, increased masticatory forces, etc...). Molar endo, buildup, crowns (and sometimes crown lengthening) go hand in hand and unlock a whole new level of productivity besides just picking one or two of the three/four procedures. Flapless crown lengthening makes crown lengthening much faster and more efficient, especially with the use of hard tissue lasers if bleeding needs to be at a minimum. If you learn those(RCTBUCrn + CL), you will be a single tooth specialist (and if you want to go further down the line, learn retreatment, apico, intentional replant, ext + graft + implant, and explant/reimplant). That way, you can take care of any single tooth/space in any stage of its lifecycle.

OP don't listen to this advice. Do what you're good at and refer the stuff you believe would take you longer or you cant do well (molar endo implants). In the same time this guy can do a ONE molar endo you can probably do multiple crowns fillings and extractions. Refer the hard stuff and increase your production with what you're good at doing.

It's a catch-22 situation here. If you don't do them, you'll never learn how to get better. However, if you don't do it well, you increase your potential future liabilities depending on statute of limitations/occurrence. I think it's important to actively learn from every procedure you perform, especially when you're in the starting phases of your career. Unfortunately, molar endo usually accompanies a crown and if you refer the molar endo, what's the probability you'll get your crown anytime soon? The better line of thinking is get better at procedures that are related to each other.... i.e RCTBUCrn, Ortho/Veneers for cosmetic driven practices, implant/GBR/soft tissue augmentation for implant driven practices, etc... There's working sets of procedures that can be done productively and decreased aggregate appointment time for increased productivity.

 

[Cold Front]

Its tough to make 300k, even with molar endo and implants. And molar endo and implants are also tough, some more than others. Some endo so tough its cost prohibitive. Some endo is so easy after a bit. 300k is possible under the write contract, economy, location etc. Just thinking 'hey im good at other things in life, ill just be a great dentist and its all fine', for the most part everyone comes in thinking that, but look at the practicing dentists, not all are that dynamo.

Exactly. Also, it’s even more difficult to maintain $300k+ income year to year throughout a career in dentistry.

You could have insurance reimbursement for higher fees procedures change, the productive employees being replaced by slower and less efficient dental assistants, the ownership gearing the associate to bread and butter procedures - while owner keeping the molar endo to themselves, you could relocate to a different employer and go through another slow start transition, you will most likely see a couple of 2-3 years long recession in your career, you could experience dentistry fatigue or burnout after working hard for many years, starting a family and trying to do more personal goals could limit your income potential, etc.

Income in dentistry is never a fixed number. It’s based on a lot of factors - and many of those factors you may not have control of. 2020 will not end as the best year in income for most dentists, but most thought it would be back in January. So just make the most out of the situation you are in, and not so much on an income bar that you must jump over.

 

[wannagiveup]

I'd be the contrarian here and say it's easy to make 300k+ with molar endo and crowns alone. The reason I didn't include implants is because implants take a bit longer to monetize and failure with a full arch implant prosthetic results in significant losses due to waste of time and lab costs. Molar endo is an important skill to learn, since molars tend to need root canals more than premolars/anteriors (due to first molars being some of the first permanents we get, poor access to oral hygiene, increased masticatory forces, etc...). Molar endo, buildup, crowns (and sometimes crown lengthening) go hand in hand and unlock a whole new level of productivity besides just picking one or two of the three/four procedures. Flapless crown lengthening makes crown lengthening much faster and more efficient, especially with the use of hard tissue lasers if bleeding needs to be at a minimum. If you learn those(RCTBUCrn + CL), you will be a single tooth specialist (and if you want to go further down the line, learn retreatment, apico, intentional replant, ext + graft + implant, and explant/reimplant). That way, you can take care of any single tooth/space in any stage of its lifecycle.



It's a catch-22 situation here. If you don't do them, you'll never learn how to get better. However, if you don't do it well, you increase your potential future liabilities depending on statute of limitations/occurrence. I think it's important to actively learn from every procedure you perform, especially when you're in the starting phases of your career. Unfortunately, molar endo usually accompanies a crown and if you refer the molar endo, what's the probability you'll get your crown anytime soon? The better line of thinking is get better at procedures that are related to each other.... i.e RCTBUCrn, Ortho/Veneers for cosmetic driven practices, implant/GBR/soft tissue augmentation for implant driven practices, etc... There's working sets of procedures that can be done productively and decreased aggregate appointment time for increased productivity.

Do you refund both the crown and the molar endo if the molar endo fails and the pt elects for ext?

 

[NinjaBox]

I'd be the contrarian here and say it's easy to make 300k+ with molar endo and crowns alone. The reason I didn't include implants is because implants take a bit longer to monetize and failure with a full arch implant prosthetic results in significant losses due to waste of time and lab costs. Molar endo is an important skill to learn, since molars tend to need root canals more than premolars/anteriors (due to first molars being some of the first permanents we get, poor access to oral hygiene, increased masticatory forces, etc...). Molar endo, buildup, crowns (and sometimes crown lengthening) go hand in hand and unlock a whole new level of productivity besides just picking one or two of the three/four procedures. Flapless crown lengthening makes crown lengthening much faster and more efficient, especially with the use of hard tissue lasers if bleeding needs to be at a minimum. If you learn those(RCTBUCrn + CL), you will be a single tooth specialist (and if you want to go further down the line, learn retreatment, apico, intentional replant, ext + graft + implant, and explant/reimplant). That way, you can take care of any single tooth/space in any stage of its lifecycle.

Just to clarify we aren't talking about grossing 300k, yes that is easy. But to profit 300k is unusual, i know only a few dentists who profit that (yes some much more than 300) and I know droves of dentists who make under that. Just look at the average salary for dentists, its certainly not 300k

 

[Rambunctious]

I'd be the contrarian here and say it's easy to make 300k+ with molar endo and crowns alone. The reason I didn't include implants is because implants take a bit longer to monetize and failure with a full arch implant prosthetic results in significant losses due to waste of time and lab costs. Molar endo is an important skill to learn, since molars tend to need root canals more than premolars/anteriors (due to first molars being some of the first permanents we get, poor access to oral hygiene, increased masticatory forces, etc...). Molar endo, buildup, crowns (and sometimes crown lengthening) go hand in hand and unlock a whole new level of productivity besides just picking one or two of the three/four procedures. Flapless crown lengthening makes crown lengthening much faster and more efficient, especially with the use of hard tissue lasers if bleeding needs to be at a minimum. If you learn those(RCTBUCrn + CL), you will be a single tooth specialist (and if you want to go further down the line, learn retreatment, apico, intentional replant, ext + graft + implant, and explant/reimplant). That way, you can take care of any single tooth/space in any stage of its lifecycle.



It's a catch-22 situation here. If you don't do them, you'll never learn how to get better. However, if you don't do it well, you increase your potential future liabilities depending on statute of limitations/occurrence. I think it's important to actively learn from every procedure you perform, especially when you're in the starting phases of your career. Unfortunately, molar endo usually accompanies a crown and if you refer the molar endo, what's the probability you'll get your crown anytime soon? The better line of thinking is get better at procedures that are related to each other.... i.e RCTBUCrn, Ortho/Veneers for cosmetic driven practices, implant/GBR/soft tissue augmentation for implant driven practices, etc... There's working sets of procedures that can be done productively and decreased aggregate appointment time for increased productivity.

My point was do what you're good at and it can become profitable. I have a GP buddy that only does endo, everyone refers to him and he is killing. He doesn't do anything else. Another GP buddy that does implants and doesn't do restorative work. If it works for you and there is a demand, you don't have to learn and do everything.

 

[TanMan]

Do you refund both the crown and the molar endo if the molar endo fails and the pt elects for ext?

I used to. Not anymore. If a knee replacement fails, does a doc refund it?

Just to clarify we aren't talking about grossing 300k, yes that is easy. But to profit 300k is unusual, i know only a few dentists who profit that (yes some much more than 300) and I know droves of dentists who make under that. Just look at the average salary for dentists, its certainly not 300k

Yes, I understand. Molar endo alone can add 300-500k+ in a practice, let alone the buildup + crown. I don't believe a lot of these surveys, I think that they might be funded by corporate or some other special interest to keep the associate perception of pay lower than what it really is; i.e if the "averages" say 150k, an associate would be happy getting above that... or maybe there's a skew in data points in that those that fill out the surveys have time to fill them out and aren't making much money due to too much free time to do surveys.

My point was do what you're good at and it can become profitable. I have a GP buddy that only does endo, everyone refers to him and he is killing. He doesn't do anything else. Another GP buddy that does implants and doesn't do restorative work. If it works for you and there is a demand, you don't have to learn and do everything.

True, I'm not saying do everything, but do everything that's profitable. That's why I cut out removable from my practice altogether. Single-procedure specialization seems risky due to lack of diversification. It's better to do everything that works in pairs (such as rctbucrn, ext-sedation-graft-membrane-implant, or ortho-veneers). That way, if demand drops for one procedure, you don't take such a huge hit. Procedural diversification is key.

 

[deleted1029135]

So general dentists making over 300k a year (net) are considered the top earners?

 

[TanMan]

I doubt that 300k is even top 5%.

 

[aggie-master]

So general dentists making over 300k a year (net) are considered the top earners?

I doubt it.

I’m over 300k for the second year in a row and I’m as average as they get... and spent most of dental school feeling below average.

I do molar endo, but refer more molar cases than I attempt. I place implants, but refer any case that does not look like a slam dunk on the CBCT. I do orthodontics, but refer any case where I don’t feel very confident in getting a great finish.

If you are average af like me and want to make a little more money, invest in CE in those three things. I think third molar extractions are very profitable too but it stresses me out too much so I refer all but the easiest third molar cases.

I used to work for a guy that did the same as me with molar endo but also did a ton of more challenging implant cases and a ton of impacted thirds and he was making in the 500-650 range. He had a skill level that I don’t think I could achieve and he invested a lot more into CE than I have.

 

[ASPEN'S NIGHTMARE]

I doubt it.

I’m over 300k for the second year in a row and I’m as average as they get... and spent most of dental school feeling below average.

I do molar endo, but refer more molar cases than I attempt. I place implants, but refer any case that does not look like a slam dunk on the CBCT. I do orthodontics, but refer any case where I don’t feel very confident in getting a great finish.

If you are average af like me and want to make a little more money, invest in CE in those three things. I think third molar extractions are very profitable too but it stresses me out too much so I refer all but the easiest third molar cases.

I used to work for a guy that did the same as me with molar endo but also did a ton of more challenging implant cases and a ton of impacted thirds and he was making in the 500-650 range. He had a skill level that I don’t think I could achieve and he invested a lot more into CE than I have.

Out of curiosity, how many hours do you work a week?

Are you a 3-3.5 days per week dentist or a machine working 6-7 days per week? (I use the term “machine” in a good, hard-working kind of way)

Congrats on the insane numbers and the hard work btw!! 🍾 Posts like this give me so much motivation!

 

[aggie-master]

Out of curiosity, how many hours do you work a week?

Are you a 3-3.5 days per week dentist or a machine working 6-7 days per week? (I use the term “machine” in a good, hard-working kind of way)

Congrats on the insane numbers and the hard work btw!! 🍾 Posts like this give me so much motivation!

I average around 31 hours a week and work 4 days a week.

That is the sweet spot of work hours for my situation. Right now I work 31 with very little downtime so things are efficient but if I tried to work 45 hours I don’t have enough patients to keep the schedule full. If I tried to add patients by signing up for low paying plans or spending a ton on advertising I might end up working a bunch more for only a slight increase in take home pay.

 

[ASPEN'S NIGHTMARE]

I

I average around 31 hours a week and work 4 days a week.

That is the sweet spot of work hours for my situation. Right now I work 31 with very little downtime so things are efficient but if I tried to work 45 hours I don’t have enough patients to keep the schedule full. If I tried to add patients by signing up for low paying plans or spending a ton on advertising I might end up working a bunch more for only a slight increase in take home pay.

Thank you so much!

 

[TanMan]

I average around 31 hours a week and work 4 days a week.

That is the sweet spot of work hours for my situation. Right now I work 31 with very little downtime so things are efficient but if I tried to work 45 hours I don’t have enough patients to keep the schedule full. If I tried to add patients by signing up for low paying plans or spending a ton on advertising I might end up working a bunch more for only a slight increase in take home pay.

This is probably one of the smartest things I've heard on the forums in a long time. Why take 40 hours to do something when it can be done in 30?

 

[InformMe123]

I doubt it.

I’m over 300k for the second year in a row and I’m as average as they get... and spent most of dental school feeling below average.

I do molar endo, but refer more molar cases than I attempt. I place implants, but refer any case that does not look like a slam dunk on the CBCT. I do orthodontics, but refer any case where I don’t feel very confident in getting a great finish.

If you are average af like me and want to make a little more money, invest in CE in those three things. I think third molar extractions are very profitable too but it stresses me out too much so I refer all but the easiest third molar cases.

I used to work for a guy that did the same as me with molar endo but also did a ton of more challenging implant cases and a ton of impacted thirds and he was making in the 500-650 range. He had a skill level that I don’t think I could achieve and he invested a lot more into CE than I have.

Are you associate or owner and if associate so are you saying you can earn 300K or more as an associate?



and as an aside, does anyone know how much associate dentist with experience can earn in nyc?

 

[theleatherwalle]

Are you associate or owner and if associate so are you saying you can earn 300K or more as an associate?



and as an aside, does anyone know how much associate dentist with experience can earn in nyc?

Most salaries tend to just be reference points. some guy will post about 350 dollar a job in newport beach or 700 dollar a day job in roswell new mexico, but a poster recently posted a thread called job prospects where he was offered 2 jobs in nyc. 1 was 500 dollars a day and the other was 400 dollars a day.

 

[aggie-master]

Are you associate or owner and if associate so are you saying you can earn 300K or more as an associate?



and as an aside, does anyone know how much associate dentist with experience can earn in nyc?

Owner

My first year out I made 220k as an associate at a successful practice but I hated the boss and the job for the most part. I decided to buy this run down practice that was collecting 300k per year (total collections for the office) thinking I could turn it around and right before I made the offer I found an associate to buy in opportunity in the same area. I started out making 145k as an associate for two years then bought in. Income has gone up each year since then as I build up my side of the practice.

 

[lemoncurry]

At least where I am, your average associate position is going to pay you a percentage of collections or production (based off what you can actually charge, not what the procedure is worth). Around here, it is about 35% with anywhere from 35-50% of lab costs subtracted. I work 4 days a week and do 2 full columns. I do take medicaid which does affect my paycheck, but I like to give back and there is a great need, especially now. If you do $1million in production for the year, that's 350k, then subtract lab fees, etc. But once you get your speed up and get into a groove with your scheduling, you can do it. Everyone is different in how they like to schedule. I like to do 30 minute blocks so that everything fits together nicely in the schedule. 30 mins for exams, limiteds, denture steps, easy resto, etc. 60 for quad resto, most exts. 90 for crowns/bridges and RCT. I have dedicated slots in my schedule for the 90 minute procedures and stagger the 60 minute appointments. Is it perfect? not likely, but it works for me. On a "normal" day, I can produce 4-5k. On a good day, it can be 7k or higher.

 

[Cold Front]

On a "normal" day, I can produce 4-5k. On a good day, it can be 7k or higher.

This!

You chose to work very hard, and get paid really well for it. The weather is really bad in my neck of the woods today (snow and rain). As of 9a, I have 50 patients on the schedule between me and my 2 hygienists, but I doubt if half of them will show up. On a good weather day, almost all of them would show up and we would do 10-15k a day. Today will be about half that.

 

[P7898]

OP. I am sure you have a lot of thoughts right now. Simple - Dentistry is what you make of it. If you want to do a little of everything and gradually build your skills up then you will make a fine living (just do not go into $500k of debt to get there I say $300k or less is "manageable").

If you want to be the operative dentist and not do a lot of diversity then you will take a pay hit in the beginning but you will start to get good and fast at fillings, crowns, and may want to expand to veneers - your income will go up from what it was before gradually. It is all relative.

In my mind we are oral physicians but when it comes down to it, dentistry is a trades profession in healthcare. With more reputations and skills, your income will go up. Now as an associate I think the highest I have ever seen was $400k income working in corporate but the guy was doing a a lot of implants and fixed prosthetics. Averages for people that do a little bit of every specialty (including Invisalign as an associate) $180-$300k depending on area and % of production.

However, nothing wrong with wanting to be average and being "chill" and making $120-$150k your whole life (which I doubt this is the case because like I said, income will go up no matter what because naturally you will get better at the skills you practice everyday). Just do not go to an expensive school (easier said than done I know) and you will be just fine.