dentists=how much are you making as an associate

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depends on how much the owner is willing to pay...it will be based on the success of that practice, location, how proficient you are as a dentist, etc...many factors to consider
 
Back in 2000, I made $300/day treating 6 pts/day. I persuaded the owner to let me work alone Sunday and made $800/day. I was soon let go because the owner found out I was building an practice nearby. Then I worked a few months for a government health center making $200/day seeing 3 pts/day. Now I net $275/hour working for myself.
 
Daurang said:
Back in 2000, I made $300/day treating 6 pts/day. I persuaded the owner to let me work alone Sunday and made $800/day. I was soon let go because the owner found out I was building an practice nearby. Then I worked a few months for a government health center making $200/day seeing 3 pts/day. Now I net $275/hour working for myself.
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you sure it wasnt a typo?is it possible to make that much in an hour if you have your own practice?most dentist i see around who have their own practice pocket in somthing like 180k-220k.even if one makes that much money (or close to that), you pay 40% or more in taxes.correct me if I am wrong!
 
godbless said:
you sure it wasnt a typo?is it possible to make that much in an hour if you have your own practice?most dentist i see around who have their own practice pocket in somthing like 180k-220k.even if one makes that much money (or close to that), you pay 40% or more in taxes.correct me if I am wrong!
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one my mentors says that its not unusual for him to bring in over $10,000 day. i'm sure this is gross revenue (not accounting for overhead and taxes).

but this guy practices in the heart of boca raton 🙄

jb!🙂
 
I was reading on Dentaltown earlier this week and there are a couple of dentists claiming to be producing over $1,000 an hour (so with 65% overhead, that is $350 take home an hour). Possible, but the average dentist makes $100 an hour.
 
johntara04 said:
I was reading on Dentaltown earlier this week and there are a couple of dentists claiming to be producing over $1,000 an hour (so with 65% overhead, that is $350 take home an hour). Possible, but the average dentist makes $100 an hour.
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what is the average overhead for a GP?.......isnt 65% too much?not to mention 40% taxes you pay on the net you put in your pocket 🙄
 
My class graduates next month. Of my fellow classmates that are entering associateships the lowest starting salary I know of is $110k/year. That's 4 days a week, but I don't know how many hours a day or what vacation time he gets, etc.

Others have signed contracts for $120-140k/year.
 
ItsGavinC said:
My class graduates next month. Of my fellow classmates that are entering associateships the lowest starting salary I know of is $110k/year. That's 4 days a week, but I don't know how many hours a day or what vacation time he gets, etc.

Others have signed contracts for $120-140k/year.
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I'm assuming they would get paid more if they had GPR/AEGD experience. 🙄
 
Yes you net $275 an hour easily. You make $180K but that's after deducting lots of nice important things like health insurance, your Escalade lease, your $44K deposit into your IRA, your trip to Cancun for Invisalign certification, your Alaska cruise for ce, etc. Your income tax is more likely in the 20-25% range. Average overhead is 65% but I've have heard it gone as low as 22%.
 
Daurang said:
Yes you net $275 an hour easily. You make $180K but that's after deducting lots of nice important things like health insurance, your Escalade lease, your $44K deposit into your IRA, your trip to Cancun for Invisalign certification, your Alaska cruise for ce, etc. Your income tax is more likely in the 20-25% range. Average overhead is 65% but I've have heard it gone as low as 22%.
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woow!my husband has had his dental practice for over 2 years now, I am yet to see these two things!I know he does put in some money in IRA,a trip to miami was good this yr😉,but overhead doesnt seem to go less than 65% and taxes are way over 25% range........ I wonder what else can one do to pocket in more and pay out less😎
 
Daurang said:
Yes you net $275 an hour easily. Your income tax is more likely in the 20-25% range. Average overhead is 65% but I've have heard it gone as low as 22%.
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No, no, and no!
 
Although the first option (netting 275) is the most likely to happen, anyone who calls it easy thinks everything is handed to them. You can't just open shop anywhere and have that happen right away. It has to be the right shop, with the right location, hiring the right staff, with the right dentist, and enough patients before that all happens. This is the above average dental office.
 
Daurang said:
Yes you net $275 an hour easily. You make $180K but that's after deducting lots of nice important things like health insurance, your Escalade lease, your $44K deposit into your IRA, your trip to Cancun for Invisalign certification, your Alaska cruise for ce, etc. Your income tax is more likely in the 20-25% range. Average overhead is 65% but I've have heard it gone as low as 22%.
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i'm assuming you meant $4k.... jB!🙂
 
dentalman said:
Although the first option (netting 275) is the most likely to happen, anyone who calls it easy thinks everything is handed to them. You can't just open shop anywhere and have that happen right away. It has to be the right shop, with the right location, hiring the right staff, with the right dentist, and enough patients before that all happens. This is the above average dental office.
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Finally! Reason. Its amazing how many people think its "easy money".
 
I beleive 25% of what you make(the salary you take out from your own practice) goes into IRA, so if 44k is going into IRA, I am assuming one is making 176k. humm not bad though!
 
godbless said:
I beleive 25% of what you make(the salary you take out from your own practice) goes into IRA, so if 44k is going into IRA, I am assuming one is making 176k. humm not bad though!
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ummm.... the max amount ANYONE can put into an IRA is $4k/year. They are increasing it to $5k/year for the 2008 fiscal year.

i have already maxed out my roth IRA for 2006 and 2007 (i.e. $8k). i highly suggest yall place any earned income into this tax sheltering retirement account. if you don't understand the concept behind the roth IRA and compounding interest, do youself a favor and google it. may be one of the wisest searches you ever make.

future multimillionaire, jb!🙂
 
For being on this side of their DDS, a couple folks in this thread are being awfully tough on a successful practicing dentist. We students can learn a lot from the people who are out there doing the job, when we aren't too busy crucifying them over typos. 🙂
 
He may be talking about a 401k which has different maximums that IRA. Roth IRAs begin phaseout at 156k of adjusted gross income. For many dentists this level is crossed very early in their dental career. I set up a 401k at my office.
 
aphistis said:
For being on this side of their DDS, a couple folks in this thread are being awfully tough on a successful practicing dentist. We students can learn a lot from the people who are out there doing the job, when we aren't too busy crucifying them over typos. 🙂
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If you pull too many legs, one or two are bound to get yanked out of the socket 😳
 
ItsGavinC said:
My class graduates next month. Of my fellow classmates that are entering associateships the lowest starting salary I know of is $110k/year. That's 4 days a week, but I don't know how many hours a day or what vacation time he gets, etc.

Others have signed contracts for $120-140k/year.
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makes me think that maybe goin military wasn't the smartest idea :laugh:
 
I know my dentist is making $500,000 a year own two offices with two other associates. This is in little new richmond wisconsin. population of a little over 6000
 
jackbauer! said:
ummm.... the max amount ANYONE can put into an IRA is $4k/year. They are increasing it to $5k/year for the 2008 fiscal year.

i have already maxed out my roth IRA for 2006 and 2007 (i.e. $8k). i highly suggest yall place any earned income into this tax sheltering retirement account. if you don't understand the concept behind the roth IRA and compounding interest, do youself a favor and google it. may be one of the wisest searches you ever make.

future multimillionaire, jb!🙂
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I don't think Daurang is talking about contributing $44K to a Roth IRA. For someone with an income like Daurang, he/she will quicky find himself outside of the eligibility for a Roth IRA. There are other IRAs out there and contributing $44K is the max per employee I think because I heard this number discussed at a practice management seminar. But yes, for us young poorer dentists, the Roth IRA is a good idea to start socking away some money for retirement.
 
Daurang said:
your $44K deposit into your IRA, Your income tax is more likely in the 20-25% range. Average overhead is 65% but I've have heard it gone as low as 22%.
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If you are going to pretend to be something you are not on the internet, at least try to make things believable.
 
armorshell said:
Actually, on fantasy island where this guy clearly lives, you can deposit 44k/year into an IRA
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12YearOldKid said:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If you are going to pretend to be something you are not on the internet, at least try to make things believable.
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jackbauer! said:
ummm.... the max amount ANYONE can put into an IRA is $4k/year. They are increasing it to $5k/year for the 2008 fiscal year.
Click to expand...

For the 3 stooges above:

Before you guys make fun of someone, make sure you have a clue what you are talking about. As a small business owner, he is allowed to deposit up to 44k in a sep-IRA. In 2007 it goes up to 45k. Go google it if you can't wrap your brain around that.

So, no, not unless you consider America fantasy island.
 
capisce? said:
For the 3 stooges above:

Before you guys make fun of someone, make sure you have a clue what you are talking about. As a small business owner, he is allowed to deposit up to 44k in a sep-IRA. In 2007 it goes up to 45k. Go google it if you can't wrap your brain around that.

So, no, not unless you consider America fantasy island.
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doesnt it depend upon if you have a PC CORP or a PC S CORP or somthing else like that?
 
godbless said:
doesnt it depend upon if you have a PC CORP or a PC S CORP or somthing else like that?
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I believe you can do it for both. Disadvantage of a sep is that you have to contribute a lot for employees and you have no choice on it. It's all dependent on the circumstances, and I'm not a financial advisor but thought the guy was getting ripped on for no reason. You'd have to sit down with a pension manager and give details about staff, etc to figure out which one is most beneficial.
 
capisce? said:
For the 3 stooges above:

Before you guys make fun of someone, make sure you have a clue what you are talking about. As a small business owner, he is allowed to deposit up to 44k in a sep-IRA. In 2007 it goes up to 45k. Go google it if you can't wrap your brain around that.

So, no, not unless you consider America fantasy island.
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LOL. Thanks for the confirmation, I didn't think I was going crazy. The practice management seminar I went to said to set up an S-Corp, and to max out the contribution of 44K for yourself and 44K for your spouse into your sep-IRA each year. Of course, this is assuming that your S-corp is making well above 88K to be able to contribute that much after overhead and your paycheck.
 
gryffindor said:
LOL. Thanks for the confirmation, I didn't think I was going crazy. The practice management seminar I went to said to set up an S-Corp, and to max out the contribution of 44K for yourself and 44K for your spouse into your sep-IRA each year. Of course, this is assuming that your S-corp is making well above 88K to be able to contribute that much after overhead and your paycheck.
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gryffindor, you hit it on the head. Depending on what you are able to contribute after overhead, your accountant/financial planner will be able to tell you the best route to go. Get a good accountant(not uncle Bill or your brother) unless they deal with alot of dentists.
 
Thank you capishe! Actually any sole proprietor can contribute up to $44,000 into the your SEP-IRA this year. Your employee do not get IRA contribution from you until they have worked for you 3 years. You can go ahead and do a corporation but it's just a waste of money according to my CPA. I have read somewhere that doctors cannot hide behind a corporate entity like other businesses so having a corporation makes no sense...someone fill me in on this detail. A recent Supreme Court ruling stated that your IRA is protected in case of litigation so maximizing it a good layer of asset protection from the likes of Hillary and John Edwards as well as minimizing your tax liability to Uncle Sam.
 
I'll use my actual 6 hours today as an example for netting $275/hr.

I did a #30 core buildup and preptemp for $1200 in 1.5 hrs. During the prep, I saw an emergency for $60. After lunch, I completed a #13RCT for $700 in 1hr; while #13RCT is numbing up, I'm next door with a new kid with FMX, exam, prophy, flouride, 1 fill, 3 sealants for $300. Just this 2.5 hours already grossed $2260. During the other 3.5hrs on this workday, I inserted 2 dentures, saw 2 new patients for fmx/exam/prophy, did 1 sc/sp, did a couple fillings, and looked at 2 emergencies. The daily total is probably $3500. The receptionist gets $120, the assistant gets $70, rent/util gets $80, hi-noble PFM costs $65, niti insts cost $30, office lunch cost $25, car lease cost $30, health insurance cost $30...for a total expenditure of $450 or 26% overhead. $3500 subtract $450 then divide by 6hrs. is netting $508 an hour (not a typical day but it averages out with the slow days for $275/hr). Of course the profit then goes on to pay taxes, student loan, etc.
 
Daurang said:
I'll use my actual 6 hours today as an example for netting $275/hr.

I did a #30 core buildup and preptemp for $1200 in 1.5 hrs. During the prep, I saw an emergency for $60. After lunch, I completed a #13RCT for $700 in 1hr; while #13RCT is numbing up, I'm next door with a new kid with FMX, exam, prophy, flouride, 1 fill, 3 sealants for $300. Just this 2.5 hours already grossed $2260. During the other 3.5hrs on this workday, I inserted 2 dentures, saw 2 new patients for fmx/exam/prophy, did 1 sc/sp, did a couple fillings, and looked at 2 emergencies. The daily total is probably $3500. The receptionist gets $120, the assistant gets $70, rent/util gets $80, hi-noble PFM $65, niti insts get $30, office lunch gets $25, car lease gets $30, health insurance get $30...for a total expenditure of $450 or 26% overhead. $3500 subtract $450 then divide by 6hrs. is netting $508 an hour (not a typical day but it averages out with the slow days). Of course the profit then goes on to pay taxes, student loan, etc.
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dang....you sure know the numbers...you probably did it on your head in like 2.1 seconds. Let's go with what you said is true.....275-82(that's 30%tax)-17(student loans approx 3000 per month)=175/hr=what you actually put in your pocket
175x6=1050/day
 
No more loans for me. For how long is the $3000 per month student loan payment? That's a lot of money!
 
Daurang said:
I'll use my actual 6 hours today as an example for netting $275/hr.

I did a #30 core buildup and preptemp for $1200 in 1.5 hrs. During the prep, I saw an emergency for $60. After lunch, I completed a #13RCT for $700 in 1hr; while #13RCT is numbing up, I'm next door with a new kid with FMX, exam, prophy, flouride, 1 fill, 3 sealants for $300. Just this 2.5 hours already grossed $2260. During the other 3.5hrs on this workday, I inserted 2 dentures, saw 2 new patients for fmx/exam/prophy, did 1 sc/sp, did a couple fillings, and looked at 2 emergencies. The daily total is probably $3500. The receptionist gets $120, the assistant gets $70, rent/util gets $80, hi-noble PFM costs $65, niti insts cost $30, office lunch cost $25, car lease cost $30, health insurance cost $30...for a total expenditure of $450 or 26% overhead. $3500 subtract $450 then divide by 6hrs. is netting $508 an hour (not a typical day but it averages out with the slow days for $275/hr). Of course the profit then goes on to pay taxes, student loan, etc.
Click to expand...

Damn Daurang, you are inspiration for all of us predents out there... Sounds like a fun and lucrative day!👍
 
Daurang said:
I'll use my actual 6 hours today as an example for netting $275/hr.

I did a #30 core buildup and preptemp for $1200 in 1.5 hrs. During the prep, I saw an emergency for $60. After lunch, I completed a #13RCT for $700 in 1hr; while #13RCT is numbing up, I'm next door with a new kid with FMX, exam, prophy, flouride, 1 fill, 3 sealants for $300. Just this 2.5 hours already grossed $2260. During the other 3.5hrs on this workday, I inserted 2 dentures, saw 2 new patients for fmx/exam/prophy, did 1 sc/sp, did a couple fillings, and looked at 2 emergencies. The daily total is probably $3500. The receptionist gets $120, the assistant gets $70, rent/util gets $80, hi-noble PFM costs $65, niti insts cost $30, office lunch cost $25, car lease cost $30, health insurance cost $30...for a total expenditure of $450 or 26% overhead. $3500 subtract $450 then divide by 6hrs. is netting $508 an hour (not a typical day but it averages out with the slow days for $275/hr). Of course the profit then goes on to pay taxes, student loan, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can have very productive days and less productive days. Yesterday was a good day for me too. First patient, #3 crown prep, impression and temp. Second patient, #12 DO. Third patient, impression for implant crowns #12, #13, #14. Fourth patient, emergency exam/consult/tx plan with necessary x-rays. Fifth patient, insert cast post and core, remake temporary. During this time my hygienist saw 6 adult patients, including one new patient. I did exams. Some days are very good others less so, it all evens out. If you're willing to work, and that is key, the work is there, living well, paying off student loans and helping out your children with their schooling is very attainable. But you're right $3,000/month in school loans is a lot, but that is the price for many right now. I'm sure they will handle it, as we did. Got to get ready for work. First patient, root canal treat #18.....Have a nice, careful and productive day.
 
amichail said:
Damn Daurang, you are inspiration for all of us predents out there... Sounds like a fun and lucrative day!👍
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Sell your soul to the insurance companies and watch the numbers Daurang quoted for procedures become half instantly. Of course, the overhead stays the same. I worked for a practice where the reimbursement for a #13 endo on a particular plan was somewhere around low $100. The entire fee schedule for this plan looked like the fee schedule from my dental school. Not cool.
 
gryffindor said:
Sell your soul to the insurance companies and watch the numbers Daurang quoted for procedures become half instantly. Of course, the overhead stays the same. I worked for a practice where the reimbursement for a #13 endo on a particular plan was somewhere around low $100. The entire fee schedule for this plan looked like the fee schedule from my dental school. Not cool.
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True. If you participate with dental plans, the numbers, in many instances, "half instantly." As of two years ago, we don't.🙂
 
gryffindor said:
Sell your soul to the insurance companies and watch the numbers Daurang quoted for procedures become half instantly. Of course, the overhead stays the same. I worked for a practice where the reimbursement for a #13 endo on a particular plan was somewhere around low $100. The entire fee schedule for this plan looked like the fee schedule from my dental school. Not cool.
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Go over to dentaltown and check out a thread entitled "not your average startup". Most people (myself included) feel the same wa about PPOs but this guy in his first year out is doing some impressive stuff with his practice setup. It's definitely a very informative thread.
 
I used to browse dentaltown but there are too many dentists and lab techs there with hyper-inflated ego. They'll put down anyone who don't agree with them.I'll go back and see.
 
Daurang said:
I used to browse dentaltown but there are too many dentists and lab techs there with hyper-inflated ego. They'll put down anyone who don't agree with them.I'll go back and see.
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I tried to access DentalTown, but it required a lic# and other info...is there a way for entering dental students to access the site? thanks.
 
Lesley said:
True. If you participate with dental plans, the numbers, in many instances, "half instantly." As of two years ago, we don't.🙂
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I have always wondered how does a practice run with no PPOs at all......how many people actually have the money to shell out for a fee for service only practice?everyone I know has a dental insurance(except for dentists and would be dentists and close relatives of dentists).In my husband's office where we accept all PPOs , there are hardly any patients who dunt have any dental insurance.Usually it is an emergency or somone who recently moved in town or changed jobs that they wudnt have a dental insurance.
 
capisce? said:
Go over to dentaltown and check out a thread entitled "not your average startup". Most people (myself included) feel the same wa about PPOs but this guy in his first year out is doing some impressive stuff with his practice setup. It's definitely a very informative thread.
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hey, can you post here the link for that thread,if you dont mind.......I couldnt find it!
 
godbless...there is a lucrative non-ppo market wherever there's a large population of foreigners because they still live in a cash-only society. You have to be willing to cater to them. I noticed 'white' folks don't pay in cash or don't have the cash. Blacks, Orientals, Hispanics come in with their LV bags and stacks of cash from wherever. Often they'd have sensitive toothbrush abrasions that you can desensitize/fill in 15 minutes and then they gladly hand you 5-10 crispy new Ben Franklins.
 
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