Denver Health OMFS

[Omfsopme09]

I have an interview coming up at Denver Health omfs and have heard many negative things about the program on the interview trail. I have heard many residents from Denver either get fired or end up transferring out of the program. Program has also just recently lost its program director however there's not much info on the current situation at denver health. Can anybody familiar with the situation shine some light on it as I am deciding on what interview to take that day.

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[Van Der Woude]

if you match there, and its accredited, you will get out and be oms. nough said.

 

[Omfsopme09]

The geographical location is ideal for my family however I have mentioned in my post that many don't get out and become oms with that program which is my main concern. Seems like there is zero transparency from the program as I have found no information about the situation there.

 

[Omfsopme09]

There are no claims, merely observation that the program loses a resident almost yearly now. At some point the blame shouldn't be placed on residents if a program has a problematic culture in place. Also you have to remember everyone is on their best behavior for interviews, especially programs that have long standing issues.

 

[DumbIsh]

There are no claims, merely observation that the program loses a resident almost yearly now. At some point the blame shouldn't be placed on residents if a program has a problematic culture in place. Also you have to remember everyone is on their best behavior for interviews, especially programs that have long standing issues.

Explain to me where you see that a resident has been lost every year? They’re fully staffed from PGY1 to PGY4.

 

[DumbIsh]

There are no claims, merely observation that the program loses a resident almost yearly now. At some point the blame shouldn't be placed on residents if a program has a problematic culture in place. Also you have to remember everyone is on their best behavior for interviews, especially programs that have long standing issues.

Also confused if you’ve made this determination why you’re interviewing there?

 

[Van Der Woude]

i know one resident who left due to disagreements with the PD. that resident transferred to another program closer to home. it happens.

 

[DumbIsh]

i know one resident who left due to disagreements with the PD. that resident transferred to another program closer to home. it happens.

Yeah that was 3ish years ago. Not like OP is saying. All 4 PGY have 2 residents now.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Yeah that was 3ish years ago. Not like OP is saying. All 4 PGY have 2 residents now.

You sound like you are a current resident there. I'm sorry if I have struck a nerve. I have knowledge of at least two residents transferring out of denver so what you are saying is simply not true. A friend of mine in the GPR program there has also told me about noncats quitting yearly and your current first year in deep waters, whatever that means. I didn't have the information I have now, when I initially applied to the program.

 

[DumbIsh]

You sound like you are a current resident there. I'm sorry if I have struck a nerve. I have knowledge of at least two residents transferring out of denver so what you are saying is simply not true. A friend of mine in the GPR program there has also told me about noncats quitting yearly and your current first year in deep waters, whatever that means. I didn't have the information I have now, when I initially applied to the program.

Finished an externship there a month ago, just blows my mind that people get interviews to places they seemingly don’t want to go to. A non cat quitting isn’t the same as a resident leaving every year but if you’d like to give up your interview spot so some of the rest of us can have a shot that would be great 🙂

 

[Omfsopme09]

Finished an externship there a month ago, just blows my mind that people get interviews to places they seemingly don’t want to go to. A non cat quitting isn’t the same as a resident leaving every year but if you’d like to give up your interview spot so some of the rest of us can have a shot that would be great 🙂

I have my doubts about your claim as externships at denver are only 2days long and you have made a new account to defend that place. I still believe you are a current resident. It is convenient how you completely ignore my comment about how the current first year is seemingly doing at the program. Non cats quitting in subsequent years is also a huge red flag. And lastly, this late in cycle even if I decline my interview you wouldn't get it, even though I'm fairly certain you are not an applicant. I am planning on attending my interview to further update this thread with my findings.

 

[DumbIsh]

I have my doubts about your claim as externships at denver are only 2days long and you have made a new account to defend that place. I still believe you are a current resident. It is convenient how you completely ignore my comment about how the current first year is seemingly doing at the program. Non cats quitting in subsequent years is also a huge red flag. And lastly, this late in cycle even if I decline my interview you wouldn't get it, even though I'm fairly certain you are not an applicant. I am planning on attending my interview to further update this thread with my findings.

I didn’t say my externship was a month long, I said it was a month ago. I’m not sure how to respond to your comment about the first year when I’m not aware of the situation. All I mentioned that your claims don’t seem to be correct given that there are no open resident positions?

I couldn’t care less, I take issue with the fact that people apply places that they don’t seem to be interested in when others sincerely are. Please do let us know about your findings. I’m interested

 

[Omfsopme09]

I didn’t say my externship was a month long, I said it was a month ago. I’m not sure how to respond to your comment about the first year when I’m not aware of the situation. All I mentioned that your claims don’t seem to be correct given that there are no open resident positions?

I couldn’t care less, I take issue with the fact that people apply places that they don’t seem to be interested in when others sincerely are. Please do let us know about your findings. I’m interested

I didn't imply your externship was a month long. I mentioned externships are only two days long and you could not have possibly learned much about the culture of the program in that limited time. I still firmly believe you are a current resident and aware of all that I'm mentioning. I am in the last interview group.

 

[J-stripper]

Old director retired recently. New program director and chair is young, she trained at Michigan was in private practice for a little and then went to Denver.

Their orthognathic numbers have increased. They said they used to do about 1 a month. Now they’re at 3-4 a month according to the faculty.

They get a lot of trauma. They said they get a good amount of sedations but the attendings have to be in the room for each sedation and push the drugs. As a first year the attendings make sedation decisions, once you’re back from anesthesia the resident makes the decisions but attending still pushes the drugs.

You’ll do outside rotations your chief year at some local private practices to get more orthognathic experience.

Didn’t seem like they placed many implants.

Overall lots of trauma. And then their DA clinic. Seemed like that is most of what they did.

But all the residents seemed nice. Denver is nice. Attendings seem nice. I think the new PD/chair will continue to make meaningful changes especially since she trained at a strong program. But changes take time.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Old director retired recently. New program director and chair is young, she trained at Michigan was in private practice for a little and then went to Denver.

Their orthognathic numbers have increased. They said they used to do about 1 a month. Now they’re at 3-4 a month according to the faculty.

They get a lot of trauma. They said they get a good amount of sedations but the attendings have to be in the room for each sedation and push the drugs. As a first year the attendings make sedation decisions, once you’re back from anesthesia the resident makes the decisions but attending still pushes the drugs.

You’ll do outside rotations your chief year at some local private practices to get more orthognathic experience.

Didn’t seem like they placed many implants.

Overall lots of trauma. And then their DA clinic. Seemed like that is most of what they did.

But all the residents seemed nice. Denver is nice. Attendings seem nice. I think the new PD/chair will continue to make meaningful changes especially since she trained at a strong program. But changes take time.

That's all I am wondering though at this time before my interview. If everyone is as nice as you say, why do people quit yearly and their first year is on the chopping block? Did they address any of that or only showed production numbers. I'd be worried to end up in the same situation next year. Graduation requirement numbers stop mattering once you get fired/quit, I think you're missing the bigger picture

 

[J-stripper]

That's all I am wondering though at this time before my interview. If everyone is as nice as you say, why do people quit yearly and their first year is on the chopping block? Did they address any of that or only showed production numbers. I'd be worried to end up in the same situation next year. Graduation requirement numbers stop mattering once you get fired/quit, I think you're missing the bigger picture

Non cats quit for a number of reasons. Some don’t like OS.l and can’t hack it. Some are banking on a better CBSE score and when that doesn’t happen they realize they aren’t competitive and don’t see a point in continuing. They didn’t say any of that and I don’t know if they quit. Or not.

Interns can be on the chopping block for not progressing. Continuing to make serious mistakes putting patients at risk or whatever. Idk. They didn’t address it. And I’m not sure if it’s even true what you’re saying.

They also have all their spots filled. So sounds like if you function as an adult and learn and work hard you’ll be fine. The only way you end up in the same situation is probably if you’re incompetent and have been given multiple chances and aren’t progressing. Or making dangerous decisions without change. Idk

 

[LegendaryPanda]

Yeah that was 3ish years ago. Not like OP is saying. All 4 PGY have 2 residents now.

I personally know another upper level resident that left 1.5 years ago and transferred to another program.

 

[DumbIsh]

I didn't imply your externship was a month long. I mentioned externships are only two days long and you could not have possibly learned much about the culture of the program in that limited time. I still firmly believe you are a current resident and aware of all that I'm mentioning. I am in the last interview group.

Think your logic is a bit flawed. Either I externed there and “didn’t learn enough about the program’s culture” or I’m a resident there that’s defending a program with all of the supposed problems you’re talking about.

You asked a question and jumped to conclusions in the same post.

 

[princeafrica]

This post is so misleading and everything the OP has said so far is false rumors. Only two residents have left the program in one point in time.
I question the point of this post, if not trolling, if your intention is to go to this interview but run around rumors before going.

 

[DumbIsh]

This post is so misleading and everything the OP has said so far is false rumors. Only two residents have left the program in one point in time.
I question the point of this post, if not trolling, if your intention is to go to this interview but run around rumors before going.

Wow OP spreading wild rumors? I’m personally shocked

 

[nade0016]

I have an interview coming up at Denver Health omfs and have heard many negative things about the program on the interview trail. I have heard many residents from Denver either get fired or end up transferring out of the program. Program has also just recently lost its program director however there's not much info on the current situation at denver health. Can anybody familiar with the situation shine some light on it as I am deciding on what interview to take that day.

Ignore any nay-sayers, go and interview, find out for yourself. You will be able to tell if it a program you would like. And if not, you got to practice interviewing.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Ignore any nay-sayers, go and interview, find out for yourself. You will be able to tell if it a program you would like. And if not, you got to practice interviewing.

I plan on going to my interview this week and updating this thread. Not a program that is high on my list at all.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Program is a disaster, I was right all along. They did fire their first year resident very recently and have lost another non cat. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[DumbIsh]

Program is a disaster, I was right all along. They did fire their first year resident very recently and have lost another non cat. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Disaster because the first year is gone?

 

[Omfsopme09]

Disaster because the first year is gone?

Small hospital, low amount of clinical cases in all categories, PD that built the program quit recently, residents constantly get fired/leave, low amount of faculty coverage, residents looked miserable yesterday. Overall seems like a very weak program that is not worth all the drama that comes with it. Ever noticed how more established/ larger programs don't have issues retaining residents?

 

[DumbIsh]

Small hospital, low amount of clinical cases in all categories, PD that built the program quit recently, residents constantly get fired/leave, low amount of faculty coverage, residents looked miserable yesterday. Overall seems like a very weak program that is not worth all the drama that comes with it. Ever noticed how more established/ larger programs don't have issues retaining residents?

Yeah it’s unfortunate honestly, didn’t seem that way when I was there but 2 days versus a couple hour interview. You certainly have a good grasp of things. Including the absurdity of interviewing at a place you already didn’t like let us know how the match goes

 

[Omfsopme09]

Yeah it’s unfortunate honestly, didn’t seem that way when I was there but 2 days versus a couple hour interview. You certainly have a good grasp of things. Including the absurdity of interviewing at a place you already didn’t like let us know how the match goes

I'm confident match will go great for me as I do my homework on each program. Work on that cbse you got this

 

[DumbIsh]

I'm confident match will go great for me as I do my homework on each program. Work on that cbse you got this

Publically disparaging a program in the middle of the interview is a quality that I personally find to be laughable. Doesn’t matter how great your score is when your personality, at least on this thread, is so abrasive. Some people are so far behind in the race they think they’re ahead. Cheers mate

 

[nade0016]

Small hospital, low amount of clinical cases in all categories, PD that built the program quit recently, residents constantly get fired/leave, low amount of faculty coverage, residents looked miserable yesterday. Overall seems like a very weak program that is not worth all the drama that comes with it. Ever noticed how more established/ larger programs don't have issues retaining residents?

Oh my gosh, all programs have problems at some point. I can guarantee that. How they manage the problems/issues is the key. Don't let anyone tell you there is a perfect program. Having been a PD, mentor and now "chairman" for 10+ years. The problems are usually cyclical.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Publically disparaging a program in the middle of the interview is a quality that I personally find to be laughable. Doesn’t matter how great your score is when your personality, at least on this thread, is so abrasive. Some people are so far behind in the race they think they’re ahead. Cheers mate

I didn't even end up ranking denver health. Nobody I know that interviewed there, ranked them. They will most likely go unmatched for one of their spots since they seem to have a habit of picking one of their non cats each year. Or they'd end up with one of the weaker applicants. Overall not a great look for the program with everything that's happening there.

 

[DumbIsh]

I didn't even end up ranking denver health. Nobody I know that interviewed there, ranked them. They will most likely go unmatched for one of their spots since they seem to have a habit of picking one of their non cats each year. Or they'd end up with one of the weaker applicants. Overall not a great look for the program with everything that's happening there.

Good for you man

 

[teeth!]

As an applicant next cycle, this whole thread makes no sense. Seems like there’s a new PD but everyone still hates it?
When this is one of the ways you hear about program, it’s even more confusing

 

[DumbIsh]

Seems to me like OP has something against the program or someone at the program. I haven’t heard these things. Surely there are changes afoot but sounds like someone who isn’t going to cut it

 

[unsatisfiedomfs]

Holy thread. In my experience multiple programs have unspecified problems. Echoing what’s been said above, an accredited program is an accredited program. Non cats getting fired/quitting is way different than a resident leaving. Even then personality conflicts are a thing when you’re spending this much time together. I’m not sure this level of criticism is founded in fact rather than pure emotion from the posting SDN member. Take everything you read on here with a grain of salt. Things are never as good or as bad as you read here.

 

[Omfsopme09]

Holy thread. In my experience multiple programs have unspecified problems. Echoing what’s been said above, an accredited program is an accredited program. Non cats getting fired/quitting is way different than a resident leaving. Even then personality conflicts are a thing when you’re spending this much time together. I’m not sure this level of criticism is founded in fact rather than pure emotion from the posting SDN member. Take everything you read on here with a grain of salt. Things are never as good or as bad as you read here.

1 categorical and 1 non categorical interns have left just this year.

 

[unsatisfiedomfs]

As I mentioned above, a non cat leaving happens all the time. People realize they aren’t cut for the OMFS life, they didn’t score high enough on CBSE, life happens. As for the resident that’s unfortunate but look at how many posts ask for transfers or open spots. Sometimes people aren’t a match or they get into a program and realize how much work it truly is. I’m not sure where you’re planning to rank but fit and culture is way more important than a programs “scope” or “name recognition.” You’ll be spending ample time with these people so prioritize a place you can build a career with and struggle with together more than anything else.

 

[Omfsopme09]

As I mentioned above, a non cat leaving happens all the time. People realize they aren’t cut for the OMFS life, they didn’t score high enough on CBSE, life happens. As for the resident that’s unfortunate but look at how many posts ask for transfers or open spots. Sometimes people aren’t a match or they get into a program and realize how much work it truly is. I’m not sure where you’re planning to rank but fit and culture is way more important than a programs “scope” or “name recognition.” You’ll be spending ample time with these people so prioritize a place you can build a career with and struggle with together more than anything else.

And that exactly was why I created this thread. There was not much info on the culture there so I started this thread to raise awareness. They have people leaving almost yearly. Awful look all around, nobody picks denver for scope or its name, and if they have a malignant culture, then what do they have going on for them really to attract applicants?

 

[unsatisfiedomfs]

I haven’t heard terrible things, the people I know there are happy. Not saying what you’ve presented is wrong but you do seem awfully vocal about your distaste for the program. An absence of public knowledge doesn’t mean the program is awful. Issues happen and how they respond to changes is something more important to me than what current events are

 

[princeafrica]

Looks like Denver Health got their number 1 and 2 choice...............

 

[Symptoms are asymptomatic]

Looks like Denver Health got their number 1 and 2 choice...............

How do you know that?

 

[DumbIsh]

well isn’t that awkward, twenty one spots unmatched but Denver Health wasn’t one of them. Proves a point that people on here just baselessly talk

 

[princeafrica]

How do you know that?

Insider

 

[dratc]

Not a comment about Denver specifically, but programs changes - sometimes dramatically - all the time. Faculty moved in and out. The scope can change overnight, and so can the culture. It’s good to try and figure out what a program is like, but always be ready and accepting of change. My program was historically incredibly stable then bam, tons of attending turn over and it’s a much different program than when I started.