Diagnosing Autism

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Childdoconeday

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
157
Reaction score
110
I do not have a lot of experience working with clients on the autism spectrum, but I have a question to pose to you all.

My coworker who has years of experience working with this population said that she doesn't believe a full psych eval is necessary for diagnosing autism. She believes this can be done by administring rating scales and observing the individual. Thoughts? If you agree, why? If you don't, why not?
 
I’m sure @ClinicalABA can add more thoughts since this is the population he works with, but having worked with kids on the spectrum, I think your coworker is a ***** and is missing the forest for the trees. Technically, isn’t the ADOS, GARS and other standardized measures for assessing autism essentially observations and rating scales? Your coworker is missing 2 key issues in her argument: service provision and the likelihood of comorbid disorders.

1. Service provision. In my state for Medicaid, in order for a provider to bill for autism services including ABA, an evaluation that includes a standardized autism assessment tool such as above must have been administered by the appropriate professional qualified to administer it. I suspect commercial insurances have similar requirements. Without that evaluation, Medicaid will not approve of any autism services. Other states and insurance companies may have different expectations. But if the state you work in has similar requirements, your coworker could be causing her families to lose out on potential important treatments that will help the child.

2. Comorbid diagnosis. Individuals diagnosed with autism often have comorbid diagnoses, such as intellectual disability, expressive or receptive communication disorder, sensory issues, learning disabilities, mental health etc etc etc. Without a multidisciplinary evaluation that includes a psychological eval, those needs will get missed and the individual will continue to struggle. A speech and language evaluation can help assess if the social communication deficits are due to language problems or the social reciprocity problems, or both. Depending on the level of functional impairment, additional services may be needed to support that individual, and like most other services in healthcare, likely requires an evaluation to pay for said services.

But hey, maybe your coworker works exclusively with rich people who can afford all of this out of pocket :smack:
 
I do not have a lot of experience working with clients on the autism spectrum, but I have a question to pose to you all.

My coworker who has years of experience working with this population said that she doesn't believe a full psych eval is necessary for diagnosing autism. She believes this can be done by administring rating scales and observing the individual. Thoughts? If you agree, why? If you don't, why not?

This attitude lends itself well to overdiagnosis.
 
At the end of the day, diagnosis is made by clinical judgement. Psychological tests only provide standardized data which aide the psychologist in making that judgement. One should be cautious to avoid over-relying on tests or over-relying on clinical judgement.


Sometimes you can spot a diagnosis without breaking your stride.
 
I do not have a lot of experience working with clients on the autism spectrum, but I have a question to pose to you all.

My coworker who has years of experience working with this population said that she doesn't believe a full psych eval is necessary for diagnosing autism. She believes this can be done by administring rating scales and observing the individual. Thoughts? If you agree, why? If you don't, why not?

The diagnosis itself might not take much more than gathering good history and observing the individual for a period of time. Although I prefer you use some type of structured guidance in your observations and the judgement you make from them (eg., ADOS). However, you dont just do a psych assessment in this population "to make the diagnosis." Its a very heterogeneous disorder. You assess multiple aspects of functioning, symptoms, and impairment in order to tailor and inform treatment. Your colleague is either being overly obtuse about the issue or is just incompetent.
 
Last edited:
I’m sure @ClinicalABA can add more thoughts since this is the population he works with, but having worked with kids on the spectrum, I think your coworker is a ***** and is missing the forest for the trees. Technically, isn’t the ADOS, GARS and other standardized measures for assessing autism essentially observations and rating scales? Your coworker is missing 2 key issues in her argument: service provision and the likelihood of comorbid disorders.

1. Service provision. In my state for Medicaid, in order for a provider to bill for autism services including ABA, an evaluation that includes a standardized autism assessment tool such as above must have been administered by the appropriate professional qualified to administer it. I suspect commercial insurances have similar requirements. Without that evaluation, Medicaid will not approve of any autism services. Other states and insurance companies may have different expectations. But if the state you work in has similar requirements, your coworker could be causing her families to lose out on potential important treatments that will help the child.

2. Comorbid diagnosis. Individuals diagnosed with autism often have comorbid diagnoses, such as intellectual disability, expressive or receptive communication disorder, sensory issues, learning disabilities, mental health etc etc etc. Without a multidisciplinary evaluation that includes a psychological eval, those needs will get missed and the individual will continue to struggle. A speech and language evaluation can help assess if the social communication deficits are due to language problems or the social reciprocity problems, or both. Depending on the level of functional impairment, additional services may be needed to support that individual, and like most other services in healthcare, likely requires an evaluation to pay for said services.

But hey, maybe your coworker works exclusively with rich people who can afford all of this out of pocket :smack:

Yes- this is what I do. I can only really comment on the younger kiddos (1-3) as that's who I work with. I only do assessments on children with potential ASD. I agree with what MAClinician and others have said. I'm looking to do a few things
1. Identify the behaviors that meet the DSM-5 criteria for ASD
2. Rule out other more likely explanations (i.e. diagnoses) for those behaviors. With my population, going from most common to least common, that's:
-Language Disorder
-Global Developmental Delays/cognitive deficits
-Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder
-Selective Mutism
With older kiddos, there's a few more and it gets more complicated. I'll stick to the little ones, thank you!
3. Identify any comorbid conditions that may impact treatment progress and/necessitate additional treatment (e.g., speech/articulation difficulties; motor skills problems)\
4. Identify the severity of negative impact of the symptoms (e.g., assign a level of ASD; establish a baseline for cognitive/language delays)


While in many cases, I can do #1 above just by setting eyes on the kid in the waiting room and asking the caregivers a few questions to fill in the blanks on (e.g., related to social interactions with other children and adults), I can not do so in all cases. Also, some of the diagnostic criteria can be subtle and not something that parents would pick up on. Like criteria A-2- deficits in non-verbal communication. Many time parents know that something isn't right, but they aren't specifically noting thinks like speech, gestures, and eye contact being used separately but not combined. Structured questionnaires (I used the SRS-2 and the BASC-3) can pick up on some of these, but I can't tell you how many times the results of parent ratings don't match what I or the other professional involved in the case report. (I'm typically doing the assessment with and early intervention developmental specialist, speech therapist, and/or OT in the office with me). Many of the symptoms require a specific "social press" to identify, and that's where the criterion based ADOS-2 comes in.

#2 requires a little bit more than just observation and questionnaires, and that's where formal cognitive and language testing come into play (I'll use the Bayley cog and language test for younger kiddos, WPPSI and PLS-5 for older kiddos. I've had some parents who will report that their child's speech and language is fine, but they are unaware of where it should be.

#3 requires some observation and interaction. For example, I may note that I can't understand the child initially, but the parents can and I get better in context or as the session progresses. I'm gonna recommend a speech/language eval to identify any problems with oral-motor skills, articulation, etc. For other kiddos I may note that they seem to have some of the test stuff figured out cognitively, but fine motor stuff is getting in the way of them accurately placing or rotating the pegs or puzzle pieces on the Bayley Cognitive test. If there are specific and severe motor skills deficits note at intake, i may do the Bayley motor skills assessment as well to get a baseline (most often when I'm specific delays in multiple areas of development).

#4 is informed by everything- interview, rating scales, criterion-based as well as norm-referenced testing, observations, etc.

So, can I make an accurate diagnosis based on an unstructured observation and some rating scales? Yes, if the scales are completely accurately and honestly (not always the case), the data from the observation are a representative sample of the "population" of data, and -just as importantly- I'm focusing on identify and documenting the necessary behaviors. That last one can be tricky in just a brief unstructured observation. when things are unstructured and brief, It's easy to be distracted by some obvious diagnosis supporting or non-supporting behaviors, jump to conclusions, and make an inaccurate diagnosis (we have some local general and developmental pediatricians who DO THIS ALL THE TIME!!). I should also say that I'm not dealing with a representative sample. As I've mentioned, I only see really young kiddos. By the time they get to me, the parents have noticed something isn't right developmentally, the pediatrician has referred them to EI, and EI has referred them to me. My type of service is in high demand (I'm currently booking in May-June 2020) and the EI staff referring kids to me are doing triage and only sending me the most obvious/or needy cases so that they can get the services. Despite all that, it's still not always clear from just the interview, observation, and rating scales.

TLDR- in some cases you could get the DX right with just the interview, unstructured observation, and rating scales. However, IMHO, you'd make an unacceptable amount of errors and kiddos would either not get what they need when they need it and could most benefit, or they would get a inappropriate label that could have lasting negative impact and be hard to get rid of. You'd also potentially miss some comorbid or differential diagnoses. Finally, DX without some formal testing (e.g. ADOS-2) may not qualify for certain services.
 
Thank you! That was extremely helpful. I appreciate this site so much.


Yes- this is what I do. I can only really comment on the younger kiddos (1-3) as that's who I work with. I only do assessments on children with potential ASD. I agree with what MAClinician and others have said. I'm looking to do a few things
1. Identify the behaviors that meet the DSM-5 criteria for ASD
2. Rule out other more likely explanations (i.e. diagnoses) for those behaviors. With my population, going from most common to least common, that's:
-Language Disorder
-Global Developmental Delays/cognitive deficits
-Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder
-Selective Mutism
With older kiddos, there's a few more and it gets more complicated. I'll stick to the little ones, thank you!
3. Identify any comorbid conditions that may impact treatment progress and/necessitate additional treatment (e.g., speech/articulation difficulties; motor skills problems)\
4. Identify the severity of negative impact of the symptoms (e.g., assign a level of ASD; establish a baseline for cognitive/language delays)


While in many cases, I can do #1 above just by setting eyes on the kid in the waiting room and asking the caregivers a few questions to fill in the blanks on (e.g., related to social interactions with other children and adults), I can not do so in all cases. Also, some of the diagnostic criteria can be subtle and not something that parents would pick up on. Like criteria A-2- deficits in non-verbal communication. Many time parents know that something isn't right, but they aren't specifically noting thinks like speech, gestures, and eye contact being used separately but not combined. Structured questionnaires (I used the SRS-2 and the BASC-3) can pick up on some of these, but I can't tell you how many times the results of parent ratings don't match what I or the other professional involved in the case report. (I'm typically doing the assessment with and early intervention developmental specialist, speech therapist, and/or OT in the office with me). Many of the symptoms require a specific "social press" to identify, and that's where the criterion based ADOS-2 comes in.

#2 requires a little bit more than just observation and questionnaires, and that's where formal cognitive and language testing come into play (I'll use the Bayley cog and language test for younger kiddos, WPPSI and PLS-5 for older kiddos. I've had some parents who will report that their child's speech and language is fine, but they are unaware of where it should be.

#3 requires some observation and interaction. For example, I may note that I can't understand the child initially, but the parents can and I get better in context or as the session progresses. I'm gonna recommend a speech/language eval to identify any problems with oral-motor skills, articulation, etc. For other kiddos I may note that they seem to have some of the test stuff figured out cognitively, but fine motor stuff is getting in the way of them accurately placing or rotating the pegs or puzzle pieces on the Bayley Cognitive test. If there are specific and severe motor skills deficits note at intake, i may do the Bayley motor skills assessment as well to get a baseline (most often when I'm specific delays in multiple areas of development).

#4 is informed by everything- interview, rating scales, criterion-based as well as norm-referenced testing, observations, etc.

So, can I make an accurate diagnosis based on an unstructured observation and some rating scales? Yes, if the scales are completely accurately and honestly (not always the case), the data from the observation are a representative sample of the "population" of data, and -just as importantly- I'm focusing on identify and documenting the necessary behaviors. That last one can be tricky in just a brief unstructured observation. when things are unstructured and brief, It's easy to be distracted by some obvious diagnosis supporting or non-supporting behaviors, jump to conclusions, and make an inaccurate diagnosis (we have some local general and developmental pediatricians who DO THIS ALL THE TIME!!). I should also say that I'm not dealing with a representative sample. As I've mentioned, I only see really young kiddos. By the time they get to me, the parents have noticed something isn't right developmentally, the pediatrician has referred them to EI, and EI has referred them to me. My type of service is in high demand (I'm currently booking in May-June 2020) and the EI staff referring kids to me are doing triage and only sending me the most obvious/or needy cases so that they can get the services. Despite all that, it's still not always clear from just the interview, observation, and rating scales.

TLDR- in some cases you could get the DX right with just the interview, unstructured observation, and rating scales. However, IMHO, you'd make an unacceptable amount of errors and kiddos would either not get what they need when they need it and could most benefit, or they would get a inappropriate label that could have lasting negative impact and be hard to get rid of. You'd also potentially miss some comorbid or differential diagnoses. Finally, DX without some formal testing (e.g. ADOS-2) may not qualify for certain services.
 
Yes- this is what I do. I can only really comment on the younger kiddos (1-3) as that's who I work with. I only do assessments on children with potential ASD. I agree with what MAClinician and others have said. I'm looking to do a few things
1. Identify the behaviors that meet the DSM-5 criteria for ASD
2. Rule out other more likely explanations (i.e. diagnoses) for those behaviors. With my population, going from most common to least common, that's:
-Language Disorder
-Global Developmental Delays/cognitive deficits
-Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder
-Selective Mutism
With older kiddos, there's a few more and it gets more complicated. I'll stick to the little ones, thank you!
3. Identify any comorbid conditions that may impact treatment progress and/necessitate additional treatment (e.g., speech/articulation difficulties; motor skills problems)\
4. Identify the severity of negative impact of the symptoms (e.g., assign a level of ASD; establish a baseline for cognitive/language delays)


While in many cases, I can do #1 above just by setting eyes on the kid in the waiting room and asking the caregivers a few questions to fill in the blanks on (e.g., related to social interactions with other children and adults), I can not do so in all cases. Also, some of the diagnostic criteria can be subtle and not something that parents would pick up on. Like criteria A-2- deficits in non-verbal communication. Many time parents know that something isn't right, but they aren't specifically noting thinks like speech, gestures, and eye contact being used separately but not combined. Structured questionnaires (I used the SRS-2 and the BASC-3) can pick up on some of these, but I can't tell you how many times the results of parent ratings don't match what I or the other professional involved in the case report. (I'm typically doing the assessment with and early intervention developmental specialist, speech therapist, and/or OT in the office with me). Many of the symptoms require a specific "social press" to identify, and that's where the criterion based ADOS-2 comes in.

#2 requires a little bit more than just observation and questionnaires, and that's where formal cognitive and language testing come into play (I'll use the Bayley cog and language test for younger kiddos, WPPSI and PLS-5 for older kiddos. I've had some parents who will report that their child's speech and language is fine, but they are unaware of where it should be.

#3 requires some observation and interaction. For example, I may note that I can't understand the child initially, but the parents can and I get better in context or as the session progresses. I'm gonna recommend a speech/language eval to identify any problems with oral-motor skills, articulation, etc. For other kiddos I may note that they seem to have some of the test stuff figured out cognitively, but fine motor stuff is getting in the way of them accurately placing or rotating the pegs or puzzle pieces on the Bayley Cognitive test. If there are specific and severe motor skills deficits note at intake, i may do the Bayley motor skills assessment as well to get a baseline (most often when I'm specific delays in multiple areas of development).

#4 is informed by everything- interview, rating scales, criterion-based as well as norm-referenced testing, observations, etc.

So, can I make an accurate diagnosis based on an unstructured observation and some rating scales? Yes, if the scales are completely accurately and honestly (not always the case), the data from the observation are a representative sample of the "population" of data, and -just as importantly- I'm focusing on identify and documenting the necessary behaviors. That last one can be tricky in just a brief unstructured observation. when things are unstructured and brief, It's easy to be distracted by some obvious diagnosis supporting or non-supporting behaviors, jump to conclusions, and make an inaccurate diagnosis (we have some local general and developmental pediatricians who DO THIS ALL THE TIME!!). I should also say that I'm not dealing with a representative sample. As I've mentioned, I only see really young kiddos. By the time they get to me, the parents have noticed something isn't right developmentally, the pediatrician has referred them to EI, and EI has referred them to me. My type of service is in high demand (I'm currently booking in May-June 2020) and the EI staff referring kids to me are doing triage and only sending me the most obvious/or needy cases so that they can get the services. Despite all that, it's still not always clear from just the interview, observation, and rating scales.

TLDR- in some cases you could get the DX right with just the interview, unstructured observation, and rating scales. However, IMHO, you'd make an unacceptable amount of errors and kiddos would either not get what they need when they need it and could most benefit, or they would get a inappropriate label that could have lasting negative impact and be hard to get rid of. You'd also potentially miss some comorbid or differential diagnoses. Finally, DX without some formal testing (e.g. ADOS-2) may not qualify for certain services.


Thank you so much for this helpful info!
 
I should also add that, even with the thorough assessment I describe above, I still make mistakes (or, more accurately, sometimes the assessment produces incomplete or non-representative samples that don't reflect the true state of things outside the assessment setting) and give an inaccurate dx or, more frequently because I'm pretty conservative about giving a label that would stick for life, don't give and ASD diangosis when ASD is present. This tends to happen more with highly interactive (though not really socially reciprocating) little ones who don't yet show a lot of the repetive behaviors or who's repetitive behaviors give the appearance of more appropriate pretend play and social interaction (e.g., kiddos who endlessly repeat the same pretend play scheme of feeding a baby doll and then putting it to bed).

I don't consider myself and expert, but this really is all I do I like to think that I'm pretty good at it. That said, I'm always questioning and seeking confirmation from multiple sources on what I actually observe in the session. I can't IMAGINE making such an important diagnostic decision (an ASD diagnosis can mean the difference between 0 more hours or 30+ more hours per week of service, during a crucial window of time when such services are likely to have the most benefit. Doing an incomplete job because I "believe" it's all I need to do (as your colleague does) would be irresponsible. Maybe you should ask her the source of her beliefs. If it's just anecdotal stuff from her own experience that's pretty telling. One of the worst thing you can do in psychology (or life) is have unquestioned confidence in your own beliefs or feelings. I haven't done cognitive therapy (or worked with verbal populations, for that matter) in quite a while, by I do remember spending a fair bit of time working with anxious or depressed clients to recognize that "feelings aren't facts." That goes for the good ones that make us feel better or support our positive beliefs about ourselves, as well as for the "bad" ones.
 
I should also add that, even with the thorough assessment I describe above, I still make mistakes (or, more accurately, sometimes the assessment produces incomplete or non-representative samples that don't reflect the true state of things outside the assessment setting) and give an inaccurate dx or, more frequently because I'm pretty conservative about giving a label that would stick for life, don't give and ASD diangosis when ASD is present. This tends to happen more with highly interactive (though not really socially reciprocating) little ones who don't yet show a lot of the repetive behaviors or who's repetitive behaviors give the appearance of more appropriate pretend play and social interaction (e.g., kiddos who endlessly repeat the same pretend play scheme of feeding a baby doll and then putting it to bed).

I don't consider myself and expert, but this really is all I do I like to think that I'm pretty good at it. That said, I'm always questioning and seeking confirmation from multiple sources on what I actually observe in the session. I can't IMAGINE making such an important diagnostic decision (an ASD diagnosis can mean the difference between 0 more hours or 30+ more hours per week of service, during a crucial window of time when such services are likely to have the most benefit. Doing an incomplete job because I "believe" it's all I need to do (as your colleague does) would be irresponsible. Maybe you should ask her the source of her beliefs. If it's just anecdotal stuff from her own experience that's pretty telling. One of the worst thing you can do in psychology (or life) is have unquestioned confidence in your own beliefs or feelings. I haven't done cognitive therapy (or worked with verbal populations, for that matter) in quite a while, by I do remember spending a fair bit of time working with anxious or depressed clients to recognize that "feelings aren't facts." That goes for the good ones that make us feel better or support our positive beliefs about ourselves, as well as for the "bad" ones.

On this topic, do you feel similarly with an adult population? For example an adult comes in age 40+ never had a diagnosis of asd but is very low functioning and endorses many symptoms . It seems like he somehow made it through the school system but that he really should have been evaluated . In order to get him services would a full eval be needed? Thanks so much for your help.
 
On this topic, do you feel similarly with an adult population? For example an adult comes in age 40+ never had a diagnosis of asd but is very low functioning and endorses many symptoms . It seems like he somehow made it through the school system but that he really should have been evaluated . In order to get him services would a full eval be needed? Thanks so much for your help.

I do not and have never done such a diagnosis with an adult and am not familiar with the reasearch in that area, so I can't give a truly informed comment. However, it's my impression that there are many more rule-outs and co-morbid conditions that are much more likely with adults than with toddlers. I'd imagine you'd have to assess more for those. Ultimately, I would check the research for standard adult ASD assessment practices. Personally, even if best practice standards dictated that an interview, rating scale, and non-structured observation was sufficient for making the DX, I wouldn't do that.

As far a what type of assessment would be need for services, it basically depends on who would be be paying for them. In my state, there are no age limits to the autism insurance mandate for private insurances, so they'd have to cover a qualifying diagnosis from an psychologist or physician (with no real stipulation on what type of testing needs to be done). The state medicaid program only covers service up to age 21 max, so that's not a factor. He may be eligible for some services through the state Department of Developmental Services, but I believe these would be based on that agencies own evaluation of specific need (last i knew they had their own propriety assessment procedures). In all honesty, it's almost a moot question as he's not likely to get specialized autism services through any ABA provider. He'd likely end up with standard outpatient therapy at best.
 
I have evaluated adults for ASD, and I have to say that yes, you would still need to do an evaluation, for the reasons ClinicalABA pointed out. In most places, services for adults are based on level of need, not diagnosis. So you would still have to evaluate the level of impairment / amount of support needed for the individual to function independently in a variety of settings. With adults, especially in the area of what used to be called Asperger's, you have to be extra concerned about people who have self-diagnosed, identify strongly with the diagnosis, and tailor their questionnaire responses. It's not necessarily that they're trying to get a fraudulent diagnosis, but the information you get can be unreliable and there are a lot of conditions that can look like autism in adults (e.g. some personality disorders, severe ADHD, social anxiety, intellectual disability, etc.) Not as many people are self-diagnosing as Avoidant PD, for example, or OCPD. It's not the cultural zeitgeist the way autism/Asperger's is.
 
Had a few kiddos this week where the interview was inclusive as far as diagnosis goes (e.g, reports of some ASD symptoms, but nothing that couldn't be accounted for by language delays and social history), and rating scales suggested social functioning within normal limits, but structured observation and testing revealed symptoms sufficient for an ASD diagnosis. There weren't obvious or sufficient symptoms during the unstructured (basically child led free play with toys) intake session to make a diagnosis. In one case where the child had an ADOS-2 overall total of 27 (comparison score 10= high level of ASD symptoms), parent ratings on the Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS-2) and Vineland-3 socialization subscale indicated WNL/low-average functioning, Similarly, kiddo got a 59 on Bayley language (profound deficits), while parent rating in Vineland Communcation was SS=80 (low average). Suprisingly, when queried at end of session (and before i scored stuff and gave feedback), parent indicated that his overall behavior (including language, play, social interaction) during the session was typical of- if not a little better than- what she see's elsewhere. If I went with just the data from unstructured observation and parent ratings, this kiddo would not be getting the additional 20-30 hours of services he need at the time in his life that he can most benefit from it.
 
Top