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So...........anyone??
So...........anyone??
i'm not even going to apply to an MD program even though my stats are competetive b/c i know i would choose a DO school instead. it really comes down to my interest in learning OMM. My interest is in sports medicine either througha family practice or orthopedic surgery. either way, i feel that OMM can and will be a useful tool for me, so I am only applying to DO schools. I've done the research and ive shadowed doctors that practice OMM daily and i have decided that it is something that I will use. Otherwise, i would go MD.
in addition i agree with the philosophy and all that, but my interest in OMM has more weight b/c I can practice the DO philosophy as an MD, that really is just a personal choice and reflects who you are as a doc and as a person
to play a little devil's advocate here, let's say you do orthopedics, wouldn't you have an easier time landing an already hard residency as an MD?
i shadowed a DO orthopedic surgeon and brought this up. i asked him if there really was a disadvantage for DOs applying to competetive residencies. he said to me the thing that you should do is take the USMLE. If you take the USMLE and get in the 90th percentile as a DO....there is no longer an argument. Is an MD student that got in the 90th percentile any better than a DO student in the 90th percentile on the USMLE?
I have confidence that no matter what med school I go to, I will work hard and in the end I will do pass/do well on COMLEX and USMLE.
I concur, at the end of the day it's a numbers game, but I raised this question to myself as well, as I applied to a few allo schools, but almost all DO schools. Is it "easier" to open that door as an MD? The DO i've been shadowing told me to choose an MD program over a DO program, for the sake of having the doors open a little easier as an MD over DO. Idk, take it for what it is, just tossing it out there.
he said to me the thing that you should do is take the USMLE. If you take the USMLE and get in the 90th percentile as a DO....there is no longer an argument.
This whole residency debate pops up quite a bit. Of course some programs have bias towards MD, as well as they should. Until DOs let MDs apply to their residencies then there is by no means any right to assume a DO should be accepted over an MD. (This is in the case of equal stats...and coming from a future DO applicant)
I think for me, it really depends on what school I am accepted to. There are a few osteopathic schools I'd prefer over allopathic for personal reasons, but if all held equal I'd probably still go MD. I won't regret going DO and in the end it really doesn't matter much to me, but I'll worry about that point when I get to it.
Also, scoring in the top 90% on the USMLE isn't exactly "easy". DOs do tend to have lower averages on the USMLE. Reasons are debated but I think it is a combination of COMLEX burnout, focusing on the COMLEX over USMLE in general, and lack of preparation by some people that brings the averages down...some people just feel prepared for the USMLE after all that COMLEX studying and then go in and discover they are anything BUT prepared.
Riker here. Stardate 564.1.
It would be plain foolish to accept a D.O. school over an M.D. one if accepted to both.
Riker out.
I dont think you should worry sooo much about not getting a residency you want to get in. In four years, more schools will be accepting of DOs and comlex. I know many students who are only taking complex and content with the opportunities it will provide. many programs accept complex alone but you are still limiting yourself.
DOs are getting into many competitive residencies. It is all up to you on how passionate you are about the field.
Easier said than done, my friend.
Riker here. Stardate 564.1.
It would be plain foolish to accept a D.O. school over an M.D. one if accepted to both.
Riker out.
whats the big deal about going to a DO residency? are they seen as inferior to MD residencies? are they actually? this is something I don't know much about, i just know that they have both available. I can still become a good surgeon if I go to a DO residency for orthopedics.....right? or is it just simply that the most most competetive residencies are MDs and those are the ones that people aim for? I'm sure there are DO residencies that are competetive.
OMM is a joke, by the way. A graduate of UNECOM told me so--however the d.o. philosophy is golden.
OMM is a joke, by the way. A graduate of UNECOM told me so--however the d.o. philosophy is golden.
OMM is a joke, by the way. A graduate of UNECOM told me so...
i was just using 90th percentile as an example if wanting to be competetive for the TOP TOP residencies, i didnt mean to imply that it was going to be easy. if you score in the 80th percentile or whatever it is you can apply to residencies where you know your score will be competetive....
Fair enough, but from my end of the training spectrum I can tell you that your focus on OMM is myopic. There is nothing preventing you from learning OMM in an allopathic medical school an/or allopathic residency, and you have your whole career to learn and refine those skills if you so choose. But you cannot be an orthopedic surgeon without obtaining an orthopedic residency.
In any case, good luck with school, I hope it works out for you.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=137433In 2006-2007, 299 residents filled 341 of the approved residency positions.
FYI for those who are interested: those 266 slots are total, not per year. I believe that ortho is a 5 year program (maybe 6, I'm not interested in ortho so I'm not sure), so you need to divide the # to figure out about how many/year.
👎I got in at UNECOM. Wanted to go there for years. so beautiful....the people are awesome.....but it will cost me 100,000 dollars more -before adding in interest- than my state m.d. school, which I am sure I got into. Cost is an important factor when choosing one over the other--after all, it is only four years of your life... Right now, I dunno what I will do. OMM is a joke, by the way. A graduate of UNECOM told me so--however the d.o. philosophy is golden.
they teach OMM at allopathic residencies?
ryserr21 said:if i plan on using it during my practice, it wouldnt make sense to go to an MD program b/c even if they do offer courses on OMM there is no way the training can be as detailed and I won't be as good of a doc (referrring to OMM) compared to somoene from a DO school
Leiber, JD. Allopathic family medicine residents can learn osteopathic manipulation techniques in a 1-month elective. Fam Med 37(10):693-5, 2005.
BACKGROUND: Graduating family medicine residents report a relative lack of confidence in managing musculoskeletal problems, and many primary care physicians desire more instruction in manual medicine. METHODS: We conducted a 1-month osteopathic manipulative treatment elective with five allopathic family medicine residents, utilizing multiple teaching and assessment strategies. RESULTS: Residents averaged 30 patient encounters each. Faculty graded their attainment of the knowledge and skills objectives at 3.9 and 3.8 on a 5-point scale, respectively. Residents reported unanimously that the course had reasonable expectations and fostered independent decision making and that they achieved the educational goals. CONCLUSIONS: After a 1-month elective, allopathic residents demonstrated competency in a defined set of osteopathic principles and skills.
ryserr said:as far as the bold statement, are you implying that it will be harder going the DO route? This question bugs me cuz from one person i'll hear there is no difference and from the next i'll hear there is a big difference (i dont mean to come off like i am attacking your or that i am upset....just stating). How do people know? Do they ask the people that pick the residents? My thinking is that if you go the MD route, how would you konw that going the DO route would be "harder?" you know? you only do it once. Again i'm not trying to be a smart ass im legitimately asking the questions b/c i'm curious.
Doubtful, but there are invariably ways to do away rotations, or learn from DOs in-house. Don't forget that allopathic ortho has its own entire set of techniques that require mastery.
There is a lot they don't teach in medical school, allopathic or osteopathic. In fact, the vast majority of practical knowledge you will learn will come in residency, fellowship, and your first years in practice. And what you take from that, my friend, is up to you.
I would refer you to this 2005 article, which is tangentially related:
No worries, man. According to the NRMP's 2007 data, on page 35, of the 614 allopathic orthopedic surgery positions, 2 were filled by DOs. So while not impossible, it's pretty damned close to impossible.
That leaves you with one of the 29 osteopathic programs. Frankly, I would hate to be confined to such a small number of programs. It's inherently restrictive both in terms of geography and program quality. Will the fight to get one of those spots be as difficult? I honestly cannot answer that question, but I have a tough time seeing why someone would deliberately opt to find out.
I chose my DO school over an MD acceptance.
I had an acceptance from Drexel the same time I had the acceptance from VCOM and chose VCOM. I hate Philly😎
Riker here. Stardate 564.1.
It would be plain foolish to accept a D.O. school over an M.D. one if accepted to both.
Riker out.
A statement like that can get you into some trouble if you become an MD and have that attitude towards DO....
I agree that DO's are barely recognizable in allopathic ortho residencies, but part of the reason is the way the match is set up. Since the DO match is before the allo match, any DO student who gets accepted into a DO ortho residency would be taking a huge gamble to take his name out and reapply allo ortho. Therefore, the students who really want ortho jump on the first chance they get.
Recently, I have been working on securing a spot doing research over the summer between 1st & 2nd yr. For those of you who haven't experienced this, it can be incredibly difficult and competitive to get the spot you want, especially in ortho.