Did you ever take any fluff courses? (BCPM or otherwise)

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It's pretty hard to tell for sure whether a course is "fluff" without having extensive knowledge of your school.
 
Examples would be classes like 1000 level BCPM courses and courses like "Ceramics," "Eng Lit: Harry Potter," etc.
 
I took an evolution class out of biology that integrated a bit of gen chem, biology, genetics, and earth science but essentially, was a "show up to class, get your stuff turned in on time, do the take home exam, try and you will get an 'A' " - and it was a 4000 level course. It was a lot of work but ... fluff.

Ask me about flat earthers 😉
 
northernlights15 said:
What were they?

I'm heavily considering taking a few this summer...
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The only fluff science courses are 100 level introductory courses and pretty much any biology course you wish.

200 level and beyond for chemistry, math, and physics are much more difficult than biology courses and they are more likely to hurt your sGPA rather than fluffing it
 
Astronomy classes, if they are as easy at your institution as they were at mine. They count for BCPM under physics and even the 300 level ones were really easy.
 
rockhard805 said:
Astronomy classes, if they are as easy at your institution as they were at mine. They count for BCPM under physics and even the 300 level ones were really easy.
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We could be like Ross Gellar on FRIENDS 🙂
 
My undergrad didn't really have any classes that were easy A (which is what i would consider a fluff class) but I did take one class that wasn't to meet a degree or med school application requirement (beginning voice class). Because it was a jesuit school i had to take three religious studies courses but i picked some interesting ones i really ended up liking (one was called ways of understanding religions and taught us a little about all the major traditions, another was homosexuality and the catholic church with went over how all the arguments against homosexuality are actually against other things (like rape and incest) or placing it on par with masturbation and such-was taught by a jesuit who used to be a drug abusing gay dude before he became a jesuit, i forget what the other one was). I kinda wish i took more classes for fun rather than just trying to race through.
 
I want to take a Bio course called Human Biology (it's for non majors but under our department) this summer…you think schools would judge me?? Or think poorly of me lol

Senior year, I am taking 2 tough sciences per term (1st semester- Physiology and Microbio, 2nd semester- Endocrinology and Cell Bio)
 
If you don't get an A in human biology, how will YOU feel about it?
 
It's a joke class and everyone mostly gets an A. I'm just wondering if adcoms would think poorly of me if I took that over the summer? Since it is a "fluff" class
 
northernlights15 said:
Well all that matters is that apparently it looks hard on paper so you're good to go @allantois
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That's right. Human biology doesn't sound like fluff and no one will know that it was for non-majors.
They probably won't pay much attention to a semester you weren't a full time student, so fluff or not, you can safely take that during summer.
 
@Goro would you judge me if I took a non-major's Bio course called Human Biology this summer? Still taking 4ish rigorous Bio courses over senior year (2 fall semester, 2 spring semester).
 
Hospitalized said:
Majoring in biology is kinda fluffy I think. (I'm a biology major.)
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Agree. Often the classes themselves aren't terribly fluffy, but the people that take them always are. The biology students on my campus are like the comm majors of science.
 
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Yes. I took almost a dozen fluff courses. My school has a monstrosity of a general education program that requires over a dozen completely ridiculous courses.

Avoid taking them at all cost. They suck the life out of you.
 
I never took any "fluff" courses, but I did take less rigorous classes that interested me so that I could learn about things other than the hard sciences. 🙄 Such as: The Science of Well-Being, Technology in a Contemporary World (required Honors class, but we learned about the use of technology in theatre haha), Judaism, a course on the food industry, and English Grammar.
 
It's OK to take anything that interests you, as long as you go well.


northernlights15 said:
@Goro would you judge me if I took a non-major's Bio course called Human Biology this summer? Still taking 4ish rigorous Bio courses over senior year (2 fall semester, 2 spring semester).
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allantois said:
Eh there were some hard-sounding classes that turned out to be the greatest fluff of all ( like my statistics course ) all while easy-sounding courses turned out to be really hard.
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I often wonder if people have a tendency to overdramatize the difficulty of stats or if my professor was just remarkably easy. I had a literal 100 average going into the final. My friend who took the class with me had a 99. The professor wrote on our last exams to not bother taking the final because we had performed perfectly up until that point. Seriously, it was one of the easiest classes of my life, and I am NOT amazingly gifted at math. Slightly above average at best...I can guarantee I would fail miserably at, say, a physics major.

As for fluff courses, I'm a lib arts major, so of course. 😛 Many of the fluff classes were required, and those that weren't, I took simply because they were brain candy to me. Stuff like sociology of sexuality and theories of personality. Those subjects are intriguing, but let's be honest...they aren't that difficult to comprehend. I always wonder how someone gets below an A or maybe B in such classes. Lack of motivation? Too much time working or studying for harder classes? They genuinely find the material challenging? Poor memories?
 
Pushe post: 16466189 said:
Agree. Often the classes themselves aren't terribly fluffy, but the people that take them always are. The biology students on my campus are like the comm majors of science.
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Is this where bio gets its reputation? I haven't taken that many bio courses, but the ones I took were NOT fluffy. I earned my A in genetics by literally carrying my textbook everywhere I went like it was the Bible. My advisor commented that I was always holding or reading the same book every time she saw me. Test averages in there were about a 60 every time. Was it as challenging as ochem? No. Was it fluffy? Not to me and everyone else I spoke to in the class. I can def see how a bio program would attract "softer" types compared to the other sciences, however. My school counts psych as part of the school of science and technology, so I usually associate fluffy science majors with psychology. 😛 (I love psych for the record...but it's fluffy. )
 
beebreezy said:
I often wonder if people have a tendency to overdramatize the difficulty of stats or if my professor was just remarkably easy. I had a literal 100 average going into the final. My friend who took the class with me had a 99. The professor wrote on our last exams to not bother taking the final because we had performed perfectly up until that point. Seriously, it was one of the easiest classes of my life, and I am NOT amazingly gifted at math. Slightly above average at best...I can guarantee I would fail miserably at, say, a physics major.
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My theory is that the people taking stats are usually the ones who dislike and don't do well in math: psychology, sociology, some biology majors, ect.
 
Pusheen said:
My theory is that the people taking stats are usually the ones who dislike and don't do well in math: psychology, sociology, some biology majors, ect.
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Those are usually the ones I hear complain about the class. I always forget that people often gravitate toward those majors to get away from math. I started as a psych major, and it had absolutely nothing to do with math for me...I just wanted to be a counselor.
 
I took History of Rock and Roll; easily the biggest fluff class of all time. The professor was so lenient you don't even know.
 
beebreezy said:
Is this where bio gets its reputation? I haven't taken that many bio courses, but the ones I took were NOT fluffy. I earned my A in genetics by literally carrying my textbook everywhere I went like it was the Bible. My advisor commented that I was always holding or reading the same book every time she saw me. Test averages in there were about a 60 every time. Was it as challenging as ochem? No. Was it fluffy? Not to me and everyone else I spoke to in the class. I can def see how a bio program would attract "softer" types compared to the other sciences, however.
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Biology is considered fluffy compared to the rest of the science majors. It sucks i know especially considering you have to memorize random material for difficult tests.

But i guarantee the bio majors who score in the 60s in the genetics test will score in the 30s in an inorganic chemistry test and worse in an electrodynamics or partial differential equations test. What makes chemistry, physics, and math so difficult is the versatility in topics, abstract analysis, and solid critical thinking skills. If you use the biology approach in memorizing anything you see, you will fail in the other sciences.

This is why biology is considered to be the easiest science in BCPM, even though some biology courses are difficult. If you don't believe me, feel free to search SDN threads of people getting a heart attack when they hear about very basic intro physics or calculus, which are the easiest courses. The same people are ecstatic when they take anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc. Which are considered to be difficult bio courses
 
Lawper said:
Biology is considered fluffy compared to the rest of the science majors. It sucks i know especially considering you have to memorize random material for difficult tests.

But i guarantee the bio majors who score in the 60s in the genetics test will score in the 30s in an inorganic chemistry test and worse in an electrodynamics or partial differential equations test. What makes chemistry, physics, and math so difficult is the versatility in topics, abstract analysis, and solid critical thinking skills. If you use the biology approach in memorizing anything you see, you will fail in the other sciences.

This is why biology is considered to be the easiest science in BCPM, even though some biology courses are difficult. If you don't believe me, feel free to search SDN threads of people getting a heart attack when they hear about very basic intro physics or calculus, which are the easiest courses. The same people are ecstatic when they take anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc. Which are considered to be difficult bio courses
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Yeah, I hate to be a STEM major snob, but I have seen this to be very very true in my experience. On the other hand, med school seems very biological, so maybe the joke will be on me. 🙄
 
I mean, I don't think having difficulty in subjects like physics is all that specific to bio majors. I think the vast majority of the population is just bad at that stuff. But I do see what you guys are saying.

As for me, I think that even if I were a mathematical genius, I'd still find biology and social sciences more interesting because I just do. I know I don't have the skills (although my professor claims it's the confidence lol) to handle upper division physics, but I did consistently get the highest score on exams in my intro physics class. The subject still makes me want to gauge my eyes out.
 
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beebreezy said:
I often wonder if people have a tendency to overdramatize the difficulty of stats or if my professor was just remarkably easy. I had a literal 100 average going into the final. My friend who took the class with me had a 99. The professor wrote on our last exams to not bother taking the final because we had performed perfectly up until that point. Seriously, it was one of the easiest classes of my life, and I am NOT amazingly gifted at math. Slightly above average at best...I can guarantee I would fail miserably at, say, a physics major.
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Some stats courses are harder than others I think. Just like some physics can be made harder than others. If you are using calculus and deriving all the formulas that is going to be a lot tougher than if you are just given the formulas and you have to understand what to apply where. Not everyone "gets" that sort of stuff so they might be the ones to complain. My stats class had open book exams but some people still did poorly.
 
I took a few fluff courses. One was astronomy, a couple honors seminars that were easy A's, and a medieval history class. But I also took/am taking lots of upper levels that are plenty difficult! (mirco, molecular bio, biochem 1+2, pchem, genetics, etc). I think that if you are taking fluff courses instead of difficult ones it might be an issue. If you are taking a few fluff courses in addition to more difficult ones you should be fine.
 
Lawper said:
Biology is considered fluffy compared to the rest of the science majors. It sucks i know especially considering you have to memorize random material for difficult tests.

But i guarantee the bio majors who score in the 60s in the genetics test will score in the 30s in an inorganic chemistry test and worse in an electrodynamics or partial differential equations test. What makes chemistry, physics, and math so difficult is the versatility in topics, abstract analysis, and solid critical thinking skills. If you use the biology approach in memorizing anything you see, you will fail in the other sciences.

This is why biology is considered to be the easiest science in BCPM, even though some biology courses are difficult. If you don't believe me, feel free to search SDN threads of people getting a heart attack when they hear about very basic intro physics or calculus, which are the easiest courses. The same people are ecstatic when they take anatomy/physiology, endocrinology etc. Which are considered to be difficult bio courses
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I think this depends on the person. Maybe it's just that the population that frequents SDN is biased towards biology-inclined students?

I found physics to be infinitely easier than any level of bio. I'm sure I'd hit a wall of sorts at higher levels of physics, but I've always done well in math (though only up to diff eq and linear) and physics (though only the intro levels) and have found them incredibly intuitive. I also blasted through orgo and could easily manage two-page syntheses, but I swear I still got the names of some functional groups mixed up at the end of second semester, hahah. On the other hand, biology has always been a struggle for me. Genetics was the least frustrating of the bunch, and physio was better than cell bio, but they were all still more soul-draining to study for than orgo ever was. And don't even get me started on biochem.

I probably spent twice as much time on bio than chemistry and physics combined for the MCAT and still ended up with BS as my lowest section, hahah...I'm so not looking forward to the first two years of medical school 🙁

Point is, everyone has different strengths and one person's fluff may not be the same as another's. But seriously, why take a course if you're not interested in the material? And if you are interested in the class, does it matter if it's easy to get a good grade? Moreover, an "easy-A" doesn't necessarily mean the material is easy; just that the grading scale is lenient.
 
My school requires you to take 3-4 classes in areas like Language and Cultural Diversity, Humanities, Social Science...in my experience every last one of them was fluff compared my prereqs and Neurosci classes
 
jeghaber said:
I think this depends on the person. Maybe it's just that the population that frequents SDN is biased towards biology-inclined students?

I found physics to be infinitely easier than any level of bio. I'm sure I'd hit a wall of sorts at higher levels of physics, but I've always done well in math (though only up to diff eq and linear) and physics (though only the intro levels) and have found them incredibly intuitive. I also blasted through orgo and could easily manage two-page syntheses, but I swear I still got the names of some functional groups mixed up at the end of second semester, hahah. On the other hand, biology has always been a struggle for me. Genetics was the least frustrating of the bunch, and physio was better than cell bio, but they were all still more soul-draining to study for than orgo ever was. And don't even get me started on biochem.

I probably spent twice as much time on bio than chemistry and physics combined for the MCAT and still ended up with BS as my lowest section, hahah...I'm so not looking forward to the first two years of medical school 🙁

Point is, everyone has different strengths and one person's fluff may not be the same as another's. But seriously, why take a course if you're not interested in the material? And if you are interested in the class, does it matter if it's easy to get a good grade? Moreover, an "easy-A" doesn't necessarily mean the material is easy; just that the grading scale is lenient.
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Or maybe you're just smart but naturally resist biology subconsciously (and for a good reason).

I agree that it varies from person to person, except i have yet to see anyone say physics/chemistry/math are overall easier than biology with overall being a keyword. You're a very smart and analytical individual with excellent critical thinking skills. From there, you destroyed your physics, math, and chemistry courses.

Yet you admitted that you only took intro level physics courses, linear algebra and differential equations. For me personally, linear algebra is the hardest since abstract concepts like vector spaces are involved.

And abstractness is the key to why chem/physics/math are objectively more difficult than biology. Yes, biology can be hard because we need to memorize volumes of information for no good reason. Yet in CPM, you need to navigate your way to the solution, often requiring volumes of work and very careful details, where one misstep can end you up in a C.

I see bio majors claiming biology is easy, fun, useful etc. I see smart analytical people claiming biology is a slog in memorizing aimlessly. Yet, i also see bio majors claiming an intro level physics course, gen chem, and calculus to be a dreadful experience. And engineers, physics majors (and grad students) furious that all their hard work to solve one measly problem is ending up no where.

Tl;dr: biology is just memorizing existing information with no intent of getting new solutions (unless you're doing cutting edge research). Chem/physics/math requires using existing, condensed knowledge to attack deceptively simple problems only to realize you get stuck for hours solving the same problem with no end in sight.
 
efle said:
My school requires you to take 3-4 classes in areas like Language and Cultural Diversity, Humanities, Social Science...in my experience every last one of them was fluff compared my prereqs and Neurosci classes
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Are neuroscience courses not fluff? :angelic:

Jk, jk! Lol
 
Lawper said:
The only fluff science courses are 100 level introductory courses and pretty much any biology course you wish.

200 level and beyond for chemistry, math, and physics are much more difficult than biology courses and they are more likely to hurt your sGPA rather than fluffing it
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I'm a biology major and I'm offended! 😉

Really though.. Our upper level bios are not easy or fluffy. We do a lot of biochem and detailed physiology for my major at least.

My fluff courses include weight training, social dance, family finance..
 
onyisraw said:
Are neuroscience courses not fluff? :angelic:

Jk, jk! Lol
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Hah! At Wustl you have to apply to be a Neuro major, minimum GPA 3.5 and an interview with one of the neuro professors. Neurophysiology laboratory was easily the most intense class I've had

@Lawper any of BCPM can be taught either as rote memorization or more heavy on reasoning/critical thinking. If your bio classes are all in the former category then your school just has a **** bio department
 
UNMedGa said:
I'm a biology major and I'm offended! 😉

Really though.. Our upper level bios are not easy or fluffy. We do a lot of biochem and detailed physiology for my major at least.

My fluff courses include weight training, social dance, family finance..
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Like I said, biology courses aren't fluffy. They are only easiest compared to chemistry, physics, and math.

If someone wants to take a hard science course without ruining their GPA, I strongly recommend taking an upper level biology course rather than CPM.

efle said:
@Lawper any of BCPM can be taught either as rote memorization or more heavy on reasoning/critical thinking. If your bio classes are all in the former category then your school just has a **** bio department
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The biology classes that stress reasoning are always the courses that must be taken. No question. But I have yet to see physics and math courses requiring memorization (chemistry maybe, but that's a stretch).

And you are correct that my biology department is crap but I extend my comments to most other bio departments that I have noticed (whether personal interest, friends who are there, people I know etc.)
 
Even just comparing similarly ranked courses from different departments

Bio 100 (Gen bio) vs Chem 100 (gen chem)
Bio 300 (Cell bio/microbio) vs Chem 300 (analytical/physical chemistry)
Bio 400 ( Genetics/immunology/developmental bio) vs Physics 400 (Quantum Mechanics/Electrodynamics)

Not to say the first courses are easy, but they are almost always easier than the second. I think this is what @Lawper is saying

*Disclaimer* The rankings may differ slightly school to school, so don't jump on me for that🙄
 
Lawper said:
Like I said, biology courses aren't fluffy. They are only easiest compared to chemistry, physics, and math.

If someone wants to take a hard science course without ruining their GPA, I strongly recommend taking an upper level biology course rather than CPM.
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I've noticed those tend to be harder as well. Another thing that's interesting is that I think in my department they don't always curve classes because they know most of us are premed and don't want to ruin 90% of our GPAs, whereas in physics, chem and math, those students tend to go on to different careers, often where less emphasis is placed on GPA when compared to medical schools. This is also true of my computer science and engineering friends who tend to have terrible GPAs by medical school standards but get great jobs right out of college.
 
Fluff? No .
Did I take some courses that ended up being pretty easy, like upper-level Korean (because the prof was super chill)? Yes.
 
Lawper said:
The biology classes that stress reasoning are always the courses that must be taken. No question. But I have yet to see physics and math courses requiring memorization (chemistry maybe, but that's a stretch).

And you are correct that my biology department is crap but I extend my comments to most other bio departments that I have noticed (whether personal interest, friends who are there, people I know etc.)
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More evidence that anecdotes mean little - at my school Physics is really "identify the formula to use based on similar problems we've taught you before" and Chemistry is ridiculous about memorizing stupid minutia (eg. flame test colors). Bio certainly requires you to know a lot of systems and processes inside and out too. But anyone can master knowledge with enough effort, and copious amounts of knoweldge are a fundamental part of Ochem as much as Physiology; the only way the classes can generate a nice bell is to test reasoning within the context, same throughout BCPM
 
Pusheen said:
Even just comparing similarly ranked courses from different departments

Bio 100 (Gen bio) vs Chem 100 (gen chem)
Bio 300 (Cell bio/microbio) vs Chem 300 (analytical/physical chemistry)
Bio 400 ( Genetics/immunology/developmental bio) vs Physics 400 (Quantum Mechanics/Electrodynamics)

Not to say the first courses are easy, but they are almost always easier than the second. I think this is what @Lawper is saying

*Disclaimer* The rankings may differ slightly school to school, so don't jump on me for that🙄
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Yes exactly.

UNMedGa said:
I've noticed those tend to be harder as well. Another thing that's interesting is that I think in my department they don't always curve classes because they know most of us are premed and don't want to ruin 90% of our GPAs, whereas in physics, chem and math, those students tend to go on to different careers, often where less emphasis is placed on GPA when compared to medical schools. This is also true of my computer science and engineering friends who tend to have terrible GPAs by medical school standards but get great jobs right out of college.
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Agreed. Funny how that works out right? The majors with less emphasis on GPA tend to produce more successful students out of undergrad. Biology majors however have very limited job selection.

HowTragic said:
4 years of Japanese. 1 year of Chinese. 40 credits of pure win.
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I gotta say, your avatar is very attractive. Nice work.

efle said:
More evidence that anecdotes mean little - at my school Physics is really "identify the formula to use based on similar problems we've taught you before" and Chemistry is ridiculous about memorizing stupid minutia (eg. flame test colors). Bio certainly requires you to know a lot of systems and processes inside and out too. But anyone can master knowledge with enough effort, and copious amounts of knoweldge are a fundamental part of Ochem as much as Physiology; the only way the classes can generate a nice bell is to test reasoning within the context, same throughout BCPM
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I think I know what school you went to (we can PM the details). And I think you're comparing an introductory physics course to any biology course, because upper level physics isn't just "identify the formula to use" etc.
 
My favorite "fluff" class was guitar class — I played the violin for a loooong time so it was a lot of fun to learn how to play the guitar (and fulfill my arts requirement)! We actually learned how to play the classical guitar (scales and songs that involved plucking vs. chords), which was super cool.

As a physics major who has taken a lot of biology and chemistry classes, I think the main difference in difficulty is the amount of conceptual knowledge and math involved. I had a lot of fun in genetics, which did take a lot of memorization. When studying for genetics, I generally did all of the homework problems and read through the powerpoint slides 1-2 days before the exam. I find that the concepts in biology are not necessarily easier to grasp than those in chemistry/physics/math, but as long as I understood the concepts and had memorized all of the definitions, I did very well. In contrast, in modern physics/thermo/quantum mechanics, I had to understand the concepts as well as be able to solve the problems mathematically. When studying for physics exams, I read through my notes, the textbook, and then went through our problem sets multiple times to make sure that I understood the math behind my solutions. This studying process generally takes a couple days longer than it does for biology exams — mostly because it takes more concentration and going through the math takes longer than memorizing for me because I'm good at memorization. The most math I've ever done in biology are chi-squared statistics and binomial probabilities, whereas in physics there is more emphasis on sums, integrals, diffeqs, linear algebra, and proofs in general.
 
Lawper said:
Agreed. Funny how that works out right? The majors with less emphasis on GPA tend to produce more successful students out of undergrad. Biology majors however have very limited job selection.
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Definitely. Pretty much the only thing a bio major is good for is graduate/professional school, unless you combine it with a business degree or something. I'm taking somewhat of a risk by doing it if I end up not getting into medical school, but I like the stuff so much I just couldn't resist 😛
 
UNMedGa said:
Definitely. Pretty much the only thing a bio major is good for is graduate/professional school, unless you combine it with a business degree or something. I'm taking somewhat of a risk by doing it if I end up not getting into medical school, but I like the stuff so much I just couldn't resist 😛
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Yeah it sucks that engineering schools tend to have such nasty grade deflation, since I feel a lot of premeds would love the backup options an engi degree affords
 
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