Didactic vs clinic GPA

[Jone]

In later years (D3, D4), is it my understanding that almost all your grades come from lab and clinic courses? If so, do they have the same weight as the didactic courses had in the D1, D2 years? Or is your GPA pretty much set once you finish the basic sciences, and the rest of your D3-D4 courses don't have much effect?

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[texas_dds]

the way we do it, your didactic classes are called "A" credits
and anything preclinical (lab) or clinical are called "B" credits
you must have a 2.0 gpa in both categories to pass each year
so yes they are weighted similarly you could say
BUT, a lot of DS1 classes like biochem, gross, etc are so many credit hours that they can really make or break you. you have heard the saying, its harder to dig out of a hole than to make one.
that said, general dentistry clinic during senior year is like 27 credit hours. so it all works out in the end.

 

[Yah-E]

OK, what ever Texas DDS was talking about, I have no idea!

Here's how it goes at Nova.....didactics are didactics...it's straight curve!

When 3rd or 4th year grades roll around, here's how it goes. It's all requirements, if you do two crowns, then you get a "C", every additional crown will boost you up an grade! The more you do, the better your grade will be! [hypothetical example]

Bottom line, the more you perform, the more you'll be rewarded during clinical years at Nova.

 

[Midoc]

At UDM the credit hours are split about 60% for the first two years and 40% for the second two years. Of the second two years the credit hours are split about 60% clinic courses and 40% classroom courses.

The grades in clinic courses are based on requirements and competency grades. There is a minimum number of requirements to pass and then after that what grade you get is determined by how many standard deviations you are off from the class average in that course.

 

[DcS]

OK, what ever Texas DDS was talking about, I have no idea!

Here's how it goes at Nova.....didactics are didactics...it's straight curve!

When 3rd or 4th year grades roll around, here's how it goes. It's all requirements, if you do two crowns, then you get a "C", every additional crown will boost you up an grade! The more you do, the better your grade will be! [hypothetical example]

Bottom line, the more you perform, the more you'll be rewarded during clinical years at Nova.

I understand that with more practice, people usually improve. However, with that type of system it's possible for students to earn "A"s when doing "C" quality work, just be doing an increased number. I would think that this type of system is flawed in that way. Student A can do 20 crappy crowns while student B does 20 clinically excellent crowns, yet they both end up with As. How does this type of grading system differenntiate between the students who have better clinical skills?

 

[texas_dds]

I understand that with more practice, people usually improve. However, with that type of system it's possible for students to earn "A"s when doing "C" quality work, just be doing an increased number. I would think that this type of system is flawed in that way. Student A can do 20 crappy crowns while student B does 20 clinically excellent crowns, yet they both end up with As. How does this type of grading system differenntiate between the students who have better clinical skills?

the way this is addressed at my school:
1/2 of your fixed pros clinic grade comes from quantity of work
the other 1/2 comes from your grade on 2 crowns and 1 fpd you pick to be scored by two professors on a 0-4.0 scale
the average is your 5 credit hour grade

 

[River13]

At Louisville where I came from, after 4 years, clinical credits were about equal to didactics in #, and they were graded the same was as well as far as A, B, C, etc. For our clinical grades, an example of most classes would be you have a certain prereq. number of procedures to do which aren't graded, once those are completed, you have say 5 different competency procedures to do for the class, and your grade is based wholly on how well you do doing those 5 procedures. There were a few people who did really well the first 2 years then dropped to middle of the class once clinical grades started coming in...and the other way around too...some middle of the pack guys climbed to the top of the class once the latter 2 years of dental school began. Its all still very subjective though in clinic...what one instructor callls an A is always a B in another grader's eyes...one of the keys at my school at least was knowing which graders to avoid and which to seek after...

 

[Yah-E]

D3 year - no grading on work - simply all procedural requirements (more you do, the higher the grade)

Although there are on grades on computer, but your work is still graded on paper and ensured quality on the clinical floor. Then all procedures leads to a competency which is graded.

For example, to earn a passing grade in Fixed Prosthodontics, you must do two crowns per semester. Each additional crown beyond the two required crowns will increase your grade. To get an A, you must do X amount of crowns/bridges/etc. This could be a problem due to the lack of that specific procedure within your patient family.

D4 year - everything is graded in addition to production

 

[Jone]

gosh, for the people who want to specialize then, it must be REALLY stressful. even if you can rock your basic science classes, it seems there is a lot left to chance/luck to maintain that high GPA through your clinical years.

 

[texas_dds]

jone, i have found the clinical years less stressful for worrying about specializing than the first two years. yes, you have to be at least competent in clinic to specialize, but i find that good grades get easier to come by as you get closer to graduation. that is me anyhow.

 

[Woodsy]

Why would people want to specialize? More money? or just like the title or what? Personally, I don't want to specialize. I think it's just too much extra school. But that's just me.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Why would people want to specialize? More money? or just like the title or what? Personally, I don't want to specialize. I think it's just too much extra school. But that's just me.

More money might be part of it. The ability to limit practice to certain procedures is a big draw for people who enjoy those procedures.

And some actually enjoy the extra schooling, at least in terms of what it does for their futures.

To each his own, eh? 🙂

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

People have a lot of different reasons for wanting to specialize. Some are after money, some feel there is more prestige in being a specialist and some just plain like one field more than anything other in dentistry. I would imagine most are motivated by some combination of those things.

 

[Woodsy]

a 4th year student was telling me that you might be able to make more money as a general dentist, esp if you own ur own clinic b/c a lot of the work u will not need to do yourself. you hygienist or assistants do most of the time consuming work...so that u can see more patients during a day...dunno how it works in the US. Though a specialist can charge more, patients won't come to see u unless their dentist tells them to.

 

[Jone]

hehe... speaking of which, i once shadowed at a pedo clinic.

it had 8 chairs, strictly for hygiene/cleanings, and only one operatory for the doctor. the 8 chairs had kids coming and going like an assembly line in a factory... all 8 chairs, always occupied, each appt about 20 minutes.

i think the doctor only saw about 3 kids per day for actual operatory work, but you could imagine how many cleanings they billed for!

a 4th year student was telling me that you might be able to make more money as a general dentist, esp if you own ur own clinic b/c a lot of the work u will not need to do yourself. you hygienist or assistants do most of the time consuming work...so that u can see more patients during a day...dunno how it works in the US. Though a specialist can charge more, patients won't come to see u unless their dentist tells them to.

 

[Woodsy]

yeah exactly, other than pedo, i don't know why no one wants to be a general dentist? you don't do anywork. People come in for cleaning, which your hygenist can do for you. Pedo is like general but u do kids and you can charge more. Other than that, pedo is the same. Hygenist in Canada get about $30 an hour. In an hour, if you can get in 8 people for cleaning, that's a gross of $800* ($50-60 for cleaning and $50 for routine check up which takes 5 minutes.)$800/hr...wow.

 

[dort-ort]

yeah exactly, other than pedo, i don't know why no one wants to be a general dentist? you don't do anywork. People come in for cleaning, which your hygenist can do for you. Pedo is like general but u do kids and you can charge more. Other than that, pedo is the same. Hygenist in Canada get about $30 an hour. In an hour, if you can get in 8 people for cleaning, that's a gross of $800* ($50-60 for cleaning and $50 for routine check up which takes 5 minutes.)$800/hr...wow.

I totally agree. many people just don't realize that GP's and pedo in many instances (majority) do much better than specialists. there seems to be so many out there that feel specializing will mean more income. Thats not the case. Especially with all the elective cosmetic procedures out there. Unless you're going into the specialty because you enjoy doing that particular part of dentistry, I would defer and do general dentistry for awhile until you find yourself.
By the way, why do so many talk about money in dental forum??? If you peruse the other forums such as the medical ones, it is rare that the topics involve money. That tells you a bit about the mindset of dental people -- what a shame. Stop talking about money and focus of dentistry, money will be there.

If you want to specialize right after dental school, you must absolutely do well in the 1st two yrs. The reason is that last two yrs. the clinical stuff is much easier to master. Therefore most people in dental school do well in the clinical years anyways. So if you are hoping to improve your class standing in the clinical years, it is unlikely. The reason is that the top guys in the class that did well in the 1st two yrs will have to do very poorly to drop down in the standings. This is unlikely. It is rare that if you have good mental capacity that your eye-hand coordination will be poor. (although there are few exceptions to this). I would venture to say that whatever the class standings are after the 1st two years, it will generally be the same till the end of dental school. In summary, if you want to specialize right out of dental school, you had better figure this out very soon after you start. otherwise its going to be tough to be competitive.
So if I had to choose what is more important, it is the GPA during the 1st two yrs. cause anyone with half decent eye hand coordination can cut a crown. So don't expect to move up in standing because of clinical grades -- cause everyone gets good clinical grades.

 

[Jone]

In defense of those wanting to specialize vs. GP, I will say, in defense of ortho (not that I want to be one), that one (make that two) non-monetary draws it that it is non-invasive, and you won't get carpal tunnel or arthritis from gluing brackets on all day. Both are bigger risks for GP's -- bloodborn pathogens, and having to retire early because of the beating that your hands, wrists, and back take.

I totally agree. many people just don't realize that GP's and pedo in many instances (majority) do much better than specialists. there seems to be so many out there that feel specializing will mean more income. Thats not the case. Especially with all the elective cosmetic procedures out there. Unless you're going into the specialty because you enjoy doing that particular part of dentistry, I would defer and do general dentistry for awhile until you find yourself.
By the way, why do so many talk about money in dental forum??? If you peruse the other forums such as the medical ones, it is rare that the topics involve money. That tells you a bit about the mindset of dental people -- what a shame. Stop talking about money and focus of dentistry, money will be there.

If you want to specialize right after dental school, you must absolutely do well in the 1st two yrs. The reason is that last two yrs. the clinical stuff is much easier to master. Therefore most people in dental school do well in the clinical years anyways. So if you are hoping to improve your class standing in the clinical years, it is unlikely. The reason is that the top guys in the class that did well in the 1st two yrs will have to do very poorly to drop down in the standings. This is unlikely. It is rare that if you have good mental capacity that your eye-hand coordination will be poor. (although there are few exceptions to this). I would venture to say that whatever the class standings are after the 1st two years, it will generally be the same till the end of dental school. In summary, if you want to specialize right out of dental school, you had better figure this out very soon after you start. otherwise its going to be tough to be competitive.
So if I had to choose what is more important, it is the GPA during the 1st two yrs. cause anyone with half decent eye hand coordination can cut a crown. So don't expect to move up in standing because of clinical grades -- cause everyone gets good clinical grades.

 

[ItsGavinC]

By the way, why do so many talk about money in dental forum??? If you peruse the other forums such as the medical ones, it is rare that the topics involve money. That tells you a bit about the mindset of dental people -- what a shame. Stop talking about money and focus of dentistry, money will be there.

If you look at the post counts, you can see that those who start these threads typically have less than 10 posts.