Difference between Internship and Shadowing

[deleted421268]

What is the difference between shadowing a doctor vs doing an internship with a doctor?

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[gyngyn]

In medicine, "internship" has a specific meaning (the first year of post graduate education). Perhaps, "observer-ship" is what you are describing?

 

[deleted421268]

In medicine, "internship" has a specific meaning (the first year of post graduate education). Perhaps, "observer-ship" is what you are describing?

Like 1 of my friends who finished his 2nd year of college said he did 2 internships with doctors. Not sure what he meant by that?

 

[gyngyn]

Like 1 of my friends who finished his 2nd year of college said he did 2 internships with doctors. Not sure what he meant by that?

Neither am I.

 

[whitemagic]

I think you're confusing being an intern with doing an internship. As in you can be an intern for a lawyer by getting coffee for them vs. doing your internship year after getting your MD.

 

[LizzyM]

These days, many workplaces have college students and recent college graduates doing entry level work for little or no pay and calling the role that of intern. In some cases it is done as part of college and supposed to be training/education. There has been some lawsuits over unpaid internships in glamorous fields like TV: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...interns-lawsuit-charlie-idUSBRE9601E820130701

Some physicians and faculty in academic medicine get annoyed with calling this "intern" or "internship"

An "intern" in a business environment is more like a volunteer in a hospital setting: they might be asked to do clerical tasks and errands in exchange for seeing how the industry works.

Shadowing is more along the lines of "job shadowing".

 

[spicysoup55]

.

 

[nokia stuff]

It may be something to do with a hospital regulation and HR. I know my hospital I do stuff at states that if you do more than X amount of hours, you are considered an intern for that doctor but if you do less than X amount of hours, you are shadowing the doctor. The only difference is if you are considered an intern you have to get immunization records in and if you are shadowing then you don't. In the end it's both shadowing, but again, I think it's just for HR to know what's going on in the hospital. My explanation for that question

 

[Doctor Strange]

Research internship?

 

[Mr Interesting]

Research internship?

This most likely.

Research internship / Research fellowship for undergraduate students.

 

[intangible]

These days, many workplaces have college students and recent college graduates doing entry level work for little or no pay and calling the role that of intern. In some cases it is done as part of college and supposed to be training/education. There has been some lawsuits over unpaid internships in glamorous fields like TV: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...interns-lawsuit-charlie-idUSBRE9601E820130701

Some physicians and faculty in academic medicine get annoyed with calling this "intern" or "internship"

An "intern" in a business environment is more like a volunteer in a hospital setting: they might be asked to do clerical tasks and errands in exchange for seeing how the industry works.

Shadowing is more along the lines of "job shadowing".

Can either of these count as a clinical experience? What would you consider an ideal arrangement in this particular section of the application?

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I've had multiple friends who go and shadow and then tell people they had an internship with a doctor in order to sound more impressive. pretty likely that's exactly what's happening here.

 

[LizzyM]

Can either of these count as a clinical experience? What would you consider an ideal arrangement in this particular section of the application?

Can what count as clinical experience? "Interning" or working in a ad agency is not clinical experience. Volunteering or being employed in a hospital in a setting where you interact with patients is a clinical experience.
I'd avoid the word "intern" or "internship". If you are paid at least minimum wage, call it employment. If you are unpaid or given a small stipend, call it "volunteer".

 

[intangible]

Can what count as clinical experience? "Interning" or working in a ad agency is not clinical experience. Volunteering or being employed in a hospital in a setting where you interact with patients is a clinical experience.
I'd avoid the word "intern" or "internship". If you are paid at least minimum wage, call it employment. If you are unpaid or given a small stipend, call it "volunteer".

I ask because I'm being offered an internship (according to the clinic) in infectious diseases. I don't know many details yet—what the nature of the internship may include; what kind of work would be done, etc. given the nature of the specialty. I'm concerned about how relevant this experience may be, and how this experience translates to "admissions-speak."

I may be given receptionist-like duties. I may be given more of an observership/shadowing role. I may be given a bit of both. How would you frame such an interdisciplinary role? It's simple to experience it as a student: you do what you're told. But when it comes to framing an experience such that a committee can fully grasp and understand what you did, what you were responsible for, and how it is applicable to your advancement as a clinician, is an entirely different story.

 

[NickNaylor]

During college I did an internship that involved shadowing physicians, but that wasn't the only thing I did. Outside of the context @gyngyn provided, I think of an "internship" as something that you are being paid to do and which involved some kind of application process prior to starting it. Getting together with a random doctor is just shadowing.

@intangible: I was in a very similar position as you when I was applying in that I submitted my application prior to completing the aforementioned internship. Fortunately I received more information about the position prior to submission and was able to include the general details of what I would be doing (including the amount of clinical time I expected to have). When asked about it in interviews, I would then provide more details. If you can, try and get more information and include as much as you can. Don't worry so much about making the "deep" connections at this point. Obviously you can't do that for an experience you haven't done yet.

 

[intangible]

@intangible: I was in a very similar position as you when I was applying in that I submitted my application prior to completing the aforementioned internship. Fortunately I received more information about the position prior to submission and was able to include the general details of what I would be doing (including the amount of clinical time I expected to have). When asked about it in interviews, I would then provide more details. If you can, try and get more information and include as much as you can. Don't worry so much about making the "deep" connections at this point. Obviously you can't do that for an experience you haven't done yet.

That's helpful—thank you.

Although I'm far, far away from opening up the AMCAS can o' worms (rising junior beginning fall term), I journal near-daily and like to keep a very close account of how all of these loose, convoluted strings eventually coalesce to create a strong, cohesive story. It's important for me to weigh out and discriminate opportunities like this—otherwise, I'll lose my mind in the neuroticism that is med school admissions.

So, in sum—I like that operational definition you gave: internships can be considered an application-based position. When applying, one should pay special attention to make note of clinical experiences in hours/week and include non-medically related duties.

Do I have that right?

 

[NickNaylor]

That's helpful—thank you.

Although I'm far, far away from opening up the AMCAS can o' worms (rising junior beginning fall term), I journal near-daily and like to keep a very close account of how all of these loose, convoluted strings eventually coalesce to create a strong, cohesive story. It's important for me to weigh out and discriminate opportunities like this—otherwise, I'll lose my mind in the neuroticism that is med school admissions.

So, in sum—I like that operational definition you gave: internships can be considered an application-based position. When applying, one should pay special attention to make note of clinical experiences in hours/week and include non-medically related duties.

Do I have that right?

Yes, but the distinction between internship vs. shadowing vs. whatever is essentially meaningless for the purposes of admissions. It's not something to get hung up about.

 

[LizzyM]

I ask because I'm being offered an internship (according to the clinic) in infectious diseases. I don't know many details yet—what the nature of the internship may include; what kind of work would be done, etc. given the nature of the specialty. I'm concerned about how relevant this experience may be, and how this experience translates to "admissions-speak."

I may be given receptionist-like duties. I may be given more of an observership/shadowing role. I may be given a bit of both. How would you frame such an interdisciplinary role? It's simple to experience it as a student: you do what you're told. But when it comes to framing an experience such that a committee can fully grasp and understand what you did, what you were responsible for, and how it is applicable to your advancement as a clinician, is an entirely different story.

Is it unpaid? Call it volunteer. If you end up shadowing and you have an extra space on your application, split it into to activities: volunteer and shadowing.
is it paid, call it employment.

This isn't hard. Just avoid the word intern or internship if you want to avoid pissing off people who will think you are trying to be something that you aren't (a medical school graduate in the first year of post-graduate training).

 

[northernlights15]

I always thought it was so odd when pre-meds said they were doing an internship. I remember this one girl in one of my classes said "internships" look more impressive than volunteering and shadowing and I just had no idea what she meant.

 

[intangible]

Yes, but the distinction between internship vs. shadowing vs. whatever is essentially meaningless for the purposes of admissions. It's not something to get hung up about.

I am avoiding listing the same type of experience multiple times on my CV. I'd ideally like to have a nice, well-rounded set of experiences that can be viewed through several different lenses, of course, with different expectations for each (e.g., a shadowing experience should have a different level of rigor than an internship does, and an internship should have a different type of rigor than labor-based volunteer experiences do), if that makes any sense.

Is it unpaid? Call it volunteer. If you end up shadowing and you have an extra space on your application, split it into to activities: volunteer and shadowing.
is it paid, call it employment.

This isn't hard. Just avoid the word intern or internship if you want to avoid pissing off people who will think you are trying to be something that you aren't (a medical school graduate in the first year of post-graduate training).

See above. I shot that horse in the face when I made medical students cringe while I wore my long COM-branded white coat across the medical school floor. (Hey, it made me a med school friend.)

I always thought it was so odd when pre-meds said they were doing an internship. I remember this one girl in one of my classes said "internships" look more impressive than volunteering and shadowing and I just had no idea what she meant.

They should be. A selection process implies this.

 

[NickNaylor]

I am avoiding listing the same type of experience multiple times on my CV. I'd ideally like to have a nice, well-rounded set of experiences that can be viewed through several different lenses, of course, with different expectations for each (e.g., a shadowing experience should have a different level of rigor than an internship does, and an internship should have a different type of rigor than labor-based volunteer experiences do), if that makes any sense.

See above. I shot that horse in the face when I made medical students cringe while I wore my long white coat across the medical school floor. (Hey, it made me a med school friend.)

Ah, I see. Even then, I wouldn't worry too much about the distinction. The description of the experiences and the way in which you frame them will make it clear to committees the degree of your involvement and their relative importance to you. Adcoms are also typically experienced in reading applications, thus they can typically read the general gestalt of an experience without having much info.

 

[LizzyM]

Your CV is different from the AMCAS application. That said, in the context of a career in medicine, Internship has a very specific meaning and should be avoided outside of that meaning unless if has a modifier and describes a specific program such as "dietetic internship" which is a practice experience for dietitians before the registration exam/licensure or "Internship at Martha Stewart Living" if you were in publishing before going on to a post-bac. In those cases, there would be no question that this is not someone pretending to be in an experience similar to PGY-1.

 

[intangible]

Your CV is different from the AMCAS application. That said, in the context of a career in medicine, Internship has a very specific meaning and should be avoided outside of that meaning unless if has a modifier and describes a specific program such as "dietetic internship" which is a practice experience for dietitians before the registration exam/licensure or "Internship at Martha Stewart Living" if you were in publishing before going on to a post-bac. In those cases, there would be no question that this is not someone pretending to be in an experience similar to PGY-1.

Yes, this is more in line with what I was expecting. Thanks!

 

[Flower_Child]

Your CV is different from the AMCAS application. That said, in the context of a career in medicine, Internship has a very specific meaning and should be avoided outside of that meaning unless if has a modifier and describes a specific program such as "dietetic internship" which is a practice experience for dietitians before the registration exam/licensure or "Internship at Martha Stewart Living" if you were in publishing before going on to a post-bac. In those cases, there would be no question that this is not someone pretending to be in an experience similar to PGY-1.

So.... Dietetic internship would be acceptable?

 

[LizzyM]

So.... Dietetic internship would be acceptable?

If you did a dietetic internship (http://www.eatrightacend.org/ACEND/content.aspx?id=10760) , then that's what you call it on your application. Saying "Internship, St. Elizabeth Hospital" could be confusing if you are not a medical graduate.

 

[goldy490]

In a similar vein I had an unpaid summer volunteer position which involved clerical medical work, and the hospital decided to call it a "research fellowship". In my LOR's they refer to me as "the research fellow" despite having done no research and obviously not being (what everyone in the medical field considers) a fellow. In my one interview so far it has caused quite a bit of confusion...

 

[Syns]

How does a preceptorship play into this conversation?

kappa

 

[celestia0313]

I ask because I'm being offered an internship (according to the clinic) in infectious diseases. I don't know many details yet—what the nature of the internship may include; what kind of work would be done, etc. given the nature of the specialty. I'm concerned about how relevant this experience may be, and how this experience translates to "admissions-speak."

I may be given receptionist-like duties. I may be given more of an observership/shadowing role. I may be given a bit of both. How would you frame such an interdisciplinary role? It's simple to experience it as a student: you do what you're told. But when it comes to framing an experience such that a committee can fully grasp and understand what you did, what you were responsible for, and how it is applicable to your advancement as a clinician, is an entirely different story.

I know this is many years later but I'm in a really similar situation and betting on the chance you can help me out. Im going to start a sports medicine internship at my college, where I will be shadowing physicians but also running around doing a bunch of other stuff....on my apps how would I list this? Can I put it all under shadowing/clinical hours? Or break it up into the internship portion and the shadowing portion? thanks.

 

[LizzyM]

I know this is many years later but I'm in a really similar situation and betting on the chance you can help me out. Im going to start a sports medicine internship at my college, where I will be shadowing physicians but also running around doing a bunch of other stuff....on my apps how would I list this? Can I put it all under shadowing/clinical hours? Or break it up into the internship portion and the shadowing portion? thanks.

I would recommend breaking it into two parts: "shadowing" and "volunteer, clinical". This also helps any reader who is scanning your application for those tags.

 

[celestia0313]

I would recommend breaking it into two parts: "shadowing" and "volunteer, clinical". This also helps any reader who is scanning your application for those tags.

thank you for the response!