Difference between practice in Canada and USA

[watercresent]

I was wondering what are the fundamental differences between an optometrist that practices in canada and one who practices in the states.

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[socal2014]

Remuneration and insurance. You will find OD's in the USA, as opposed to OD's in Canada, have the ability to enjoy full scope Optometry, which correlates to a better income.

 

[stonegoat]

Remuneration and insurance. You will find OD's in the USA, as opposed to OD's in Canada, have the ability to enjoy full scope Optometry, which correlates to a better income.

Wrong.

ODs in the US do have better TPA laws, but that does not correlate to better income. In Canada, ODs can see ANY patient for ANY reason, vision or medical. We don't have HMO or the like. I would say the biggest difference between the two countries, is that in Canada, it is still easy to find full-time associate work in a private practice and easily make 6 figures your first year.

 

[4Eyes]

Wrong.

ODs in the US do have better TPA laws, but that does not correlate to better income. In Canada, ODs can see ANY patient for ANY reason, vision or medical. We don't have HMO or the like. I would say the biggest difference between the two countries, is that in Canada, it is still easy to find full-time associate work in a private practice and easily make 6 figures your first year.

Ding ding ding. I can't say personally if that's really the norm for all our Canadian friends. But here (here = in my very general multi-state area, perhaps not here = all of the USA), you'll find many, many private practice ODs who are more than willing to let you use their office space to see patients (and maybe relieve them of a few Saturdays). Finding a private practice to join that will actually make you busy within the first year or two, however, is much, much more difficult.

 

[stonegoat]

Ding ding ding. I can't say personally if that's really the norm for all our Canadian friends. But here (here = in my very general multi-state area, perhaps not here = all of the USA), you'll find many, many private practice ODs who are more than willing to let you use their office space to see patients (and maybe relieve them of a few Saturdays). Finding a private practice to join that will actually make you busy within the first year or two, however, is much, much more difficult.

I Canada, other than the over-saturated large urban centres, it's easy to find FULL-TIME work at a private practice and probably be close to fully-booked your first year. My current associate, who is an American, is almost always fully-booked, and has been with me less than a year.

I know of several practices that would offer the same opportunity, if only they could find an associate.

 

[sceye]

I Canada, other than the over-saturated large urban centres, it's easy to find FULL-TIME work at a private practice and probably be close to fully-booked your first year. My current associate, who is an American, is almost always fully-booked, and has been with me less than a year.

I know of several practices that would offer the same opportunity, if only they could find an associate.

Hi stonegoat,

out of curiosity, how easy is it for an american to get a job in canada as an optometrist?

 

[socal2014]

Wrong.

ODs in the US do have better TPA laws, but that does not correlate to better income. In Canada, ODs can see ANY patient for ANY reason, vision or medical. We don't have HMO or the like. I would say the biggest difference between the two countries, is that in Canada, it is still easy to find full-time associate work in a private practice and easily make 6 figures your first year.

Not sure why that is a positive.

While Canadian OD's can treat patients for any reason, as you have said, that is a huge advantage, because the reimbursement for a medical insurance is identical to vision insurance, in Canada. I am too lazy to cite the specific medical conditions for which OD's in the States are reimbursed, but most medical insurances pay the doctor >$100/medical diagnosis etc. Yes the vision insurance might not be as lucrative (<$60) for OD's in the states, but believe it or not, that is actually good, since an OD has a choice of how to run his practice. Compare this to the <$60/visit that Canadian docs earn for any type of visit (vision or medical), which is really pathetic, if you look at how American OD's are paid, with respect to which insurance they choose, vision or medical.

Docs in the states can opt to take medical or vision or both insurances. On one hand you can have a full medical practice, accepting only medical insurance, and on the other hand you can have a practice that accepts both. This gives the OD a lot of choices, and makes Optometry more enjoyable as there are challenges associated with either mode of practice.

Coding and billing in Canada is a joke. Its really pathetic when a set of 25-30 codes are limited to billing, and each of these codes, (or patient visits) pay the same, with some deviation. Optometry in Canada is too simple, considering the amount of time an OD has invested in it.

I am willing to bet that a practice with the majority of its patients having medical insurance would gross higher figures than a practice in Canada, which forcibly has to accept each and every person, as imposed by the absolutely fantastic government of great Canada.

All in all though, it really is not about the money. OD's in the states/canada make good income nevertheless, but the fact that Canada is many years behind on issues concerning Optometry, relative to its counterpart, usa, it just goes to show that ODs in Canada are essentially refraction monkeys. More recently, a law was implemented in BC allowing individuals to purchase eye wear online, without the need for prescriptions. Boy, I would love to be part of a profession whose leaders are corrupt/stupid. Oh yeah, lets not even mention the IOBP which pumps out OD's on the basis of monetary gains.

At the end of the day, I'd rather practice in the states as a doctor, rather than a refraction monkey in Canada, even if the pay is better, which I doubt. This post was not made to offend any OD's in Canada, and I personally have nothing against them. The title "refraction monkey" is really not meant to offend anyone, so please don't be offended. The majority of Canadian ODs are too nice to their own government and optometric organization, which is indeed very sad.

 

[stonegoat]

Not sure why that is a positive.

While Canadian OD's can treat patients for any reason, as you have said, that is a huge advantage, because the reimbursement for a medical insurance is identical to vision insurance, in Canada. I am too lazy to cite the specific medical conditions for which OD's in the States are reimbursed, but most medical insurances pay the doctor >$100/medical diagnosis etc. Yes the vision insurance might not be as lucrative (<$60) for OD's in the states, but believe it or not, that is actually good, since an OD has a choice of how to run his practice. Compare this to the <$60/visit that Canadian docs earn for any type of visit (vision or medical), which is really pathetic, if you look at how American OD's are paid, with respect to which insurance they choose, vision or medical.

Docs in the states can opt to take medical or vision or both insurances. On one hand you can have a full medical practice, accepting only medical insurance, and on the other hand you can have a practice that accepts both. This gives the OD a lot of choices, and makes Optometry more enjoyable as there are challenges associated with either mode of practice.

Coding and billing in Canada is a joke. Its really pathetic when a set of 25-30 codes are limited to billing, and each of these codes, (or patient visits) pay the same, with some deviation. Optometry in Canada is too simple, considering the amount of time an OD has invested in it.

I am willing to bet that a practice with the majority of its patients having medical insurance would gross higher figures than a practice in Canada, which forcibly has to accept each and every person, as imposed by the absolutely fantastic government of great Canada.

All in all though, it really is not about the money. OD's in the states/canada make good income nevertheless, but the fact that Canada is many years behind on issues concerning Optometry, relative to its counterpart, usa, it just goes to show that ODs in Canada are essentially refraction monkeys. More recently, a law was implemented in BC allowing individuals to purchase eye wear online, without the need for prescriptions. Boy, I would love to be part of a profession whose leaders are corrupt/stupid. Oh yeah, lets not even mention the IOBP which pumps out OD's on the basis of monetary gains.

At the end of the day, I'd rather practice in the states as a doctor, rather than a refraction monkey in Canada, even if the pay is better, which I doubt. This post was not made to offend any OD's in Canada, and I personally have nothing against them. The title "refraction monkey" is really not meant to offend anyone, so please don't be offended. The majority of Canadian ODs are too nice to their own government and optometric organization, which is indeed very sad.

Wow....you are a piece of work...and enormously misinformed. Almost everything I read in this forum is about how over-saturated the US is with ODs, and how difficult it can be to get on medical panels. I simply want the Canadian ODs who do their training in the US (which I did) to consider returning to Canada to practice, because unlike the US (apparently), there are great private practice opportunities, right out of school. Anyway, you are a joke, and the rest of your "facts" aren't even worth discussing, as you obviously have a jaded view of Canadian optometry.

If any students out there are actually interested in the truth about how we practice in Canada, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[socal2014]

Wow....you are a piece of work...and enormously misinformed. Almost everything I read in this forum is about how over-saturated the US is with ODs, and how difficult it can be to get on medical panels. I simply want the Canadian ODs who do their training in the US (which I did) to consider returning to Canada to practice, because unlike the US (apparently), there are great private practice opportunities, right out of school. Anyway, you are a joke, and the rest of your "facts" aren't even worth discussing, as you obviously have a jaded view of Canadian optometry.

If any students out there are actually interested in the truth about how we practice in Canada, feel free to send me a PM.

........like I said repeatedly, don't be offended by my posting. I am not calling you a refraction monkey out of spite. I look at what you do, what you CAN do, and how you do it, and frankly, it's a joke, compared to OD's in the states. (By "you" I mean Canadian OD's) Most of it is not the fault of practicing OD's, but rather the organization, COA, which is responsible for Optometry in Canada.

Let me break it down for you:

Optometry in Canada =

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoprac/suppbilling/Opt-Pmt-Schedule-April-1-08.pdf

Optometry in the States =

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc..._vY5321aZjPgTbteA&sig2=a9rdqu9CP010OG4rrNKIXA

Clearly, Od's in the states can code for A LOT more procedures, and they are actually reimbursed well for their services. For instance, in BC/Canada, the OD is reimbursed $50 for an eye exam, while the OD in the states is reimbursed more than double.

Seriously, Optometry in Canada is terrible. How can you explain being reimbursed the same amount of monies for DIFFERENT diagnosis? (these diagnostic codes are linked somewhere else, but they are irrelevant as the pay is the same)

If after all the stated facts, there are still questions, I ask the Canadian OD this.

How do you feel about being reimbursed $50 for a single patient who requires an eye exam, for the rest of your working career, UNLESS, your leaders actually do something worthwhile for the profession, which is not happening; Look at the IOBP/BC deregulation.

The information is out there, and I have supplied our readers with some. You on the other hand, can hide in your practice thinking you're a hot shot and calling people who genuinely care about this profession childish names. The only thing you managed to get right was that OD's can see anyone for any condition. Too bad you forgot to mention that a) You are forced to see anyone, for any type of conditions b) you are reimbursed the SAME amount for DIFFERENT diagnosis. If that is not a refraction monkey, who is?

 

[stonegoat]

........like I said repeatedly, don't be offended by my posting. I am not calling you a refraction monkey out of spite. I look at what you do, what you CAN do, and how you do it, and frankly, it's a joke, compared to OD's in the states. (By "you" I mean Canadian OD's) Most of it is not the fault of practicing OD's, but rather the organization, COA, which is responsible for Optometry in Canada.

Let me break it down for you:

Optometry in Canada =

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoprac/suppbilling/Opt-Pmt-Schedule-April-1-08.pdf

Optometry in the States =

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc..._vY5321aZjPgTbteA&sig2=a9rdqu9CP010OG4rrNKIXA

Clearly, Od's in the states can code for A LOT more procedures, and they are actually reimbursed well for their services. For instance, in BC/Canada, the OD is reimbursed $50 for an eye exam, while the OD in the states is reimbursed more than double.

Seriously, Optometry in Canada is terrible. How can you explain being reimbursed the same amount of monies for DIFFERENT diagnosis? (these diagnostic codes are linked somewhere else, but they are irrelevant as the pay is the same)

If after all the stated facts, there are still questions, I ask the Canadian OD this.

How do you feel about being reimbursed $50 for a single patient who requires an eye exam, for the rest of your working career, UNLESS, your leaders actually do something worthwhile for the profession, which is not happening; Look at the IOBP/BC deregulation.

The information is out there, and I have supplied our readers with some. You on the other hand, can hide in your practice thinking you're a hot shot and calling people who genuinely care about this profession childish names. The only thing you managed to get right was that OD's can see anyone for any condition. Too bad you forgot to mention that a) You are forced to see anyone, for any type of conditions b) you are reimbursed the SAME amount for DIFFERENT diagnosis. If that is not a refraction monkey, who is?

You don't know what your talking about. I can charge whatever I want for an exam. The patients pays the balance over what the government pays. If the governement pays $50, and my fee is $100, then the patient pays $50 out-of-pocket. Anyway, I'm done with this thread...BTW I take it by your moniker that you are a student in california?? Are you going to practice there?? Now that would be a joke. When I advertised for an associate several months ago, I got LOTs of interested parties calling me from cali....I wonder why!

Anyway, I'd better get back to work...I'm fully-booked you know, and the emergency anterior uvetis patient I just finished seeing and PRESCRIBING for interupted my schedule.



One more thing...my new associate is American...he loves it here and cannot believe how much busier he is here and how much money he is making over his last job in the US.

later and good luck!

 

[socal2014]

You don't know what your talking about. I can charge whatever I want for an exam. The patients pays the balance over what the government pays. If the governement pays $50, and my fee is $100, then the patient pays $50 out-of-pocket. Anyway, I'm done with this thread...BTW I take it by your moniker that you are a student in california?? Are you going to practice there?? Now that would be a joke. When I advertised for an associate several months ago, I got LOTs of interested parties calling me from cali....I wonder why!

Anyway, I'd better get back to work...I'm fully-booked you know, and the emergency anterior uvetis patient I just finished seeing and PRESCRIBING for interupted my schedule.



One more thing...my new associate is American...he loves it here and cannot believe how much busier he is here and how much money he is making over his last job in the US.

later and good luck!

Once again, you have proven you know litlle about Optometry in the united states. You can charge more, but why would you? I could open up a practice next to you and offer $50 exams, which is exactly what costco/walmart are doing.

If anyone truly cares about the difference between Optometry in the states vs USA, just look at my previous post, and the corresponding links.

Besides better reimbursement, USA, as opposed to Canada, offers much more scope of Optometry, so you can practice more of what you learned in opt. school. Expect to do the same redundant things in Canada however, which is good for some people I suppose. On top of that, the weather in the states is MUCH better than any province in Canada.

It would be really hard for one to defend Canadian Optometry in general, because frankly, as I have proven earlier, it is a joke.