Disability Insurance

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badgat

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Hello,

I am hunting for a good disability insurance company - I have the right questions to ask as posted on other threads (under different specialities) but I was hoping to find a company that is good to radiation oncologists. Or if there are any suggestions for an independent advisor in florida that I can talk to, I am happy to have those reccs as well.

Thanks

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I'm in California and went with Standard Insurance Co. You may be able to get a better deal if you go through a wealth management firm.

This is a good time to bring up an important point. Disability insurance is CRITICAL to physicians. Your biggest asset is your ability to earn and if you ever become disabled and unable to work you will be royally hosed without insurance.

You can get better rates in your last year of residency than as an attending. Also beware the "insurance" provided by your residency or employer. Generally the payout is a pittance compared to your true earning potential.
 
I would shop around online to compare and also see if you can find a discounted policy. I found that the policies varied slightly but the discouts made the biggest difference.
 
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Agree with above.
I have mine through MetLife.
Ideally you want a policy that pays you specifically if you cannot perform your job as a radonc rather than as a physician in general (although this is probably a bigger deal for surgeons).

The most common reasons to file a claim are back problems and pysch. Only a few plans still pay for psych related claims so that might be something to consider, although I've heard proving a psych claim is difficult.
 
A few additions:

-Pricing for disability insurance is set by the insurance companies. Therefore working with a wealth management firm will not help you any, in comparison to working with Joe Smith Insurance Guy.

-Discounts may be available, but be careful. Some discounted coverages, like association coverages, are not any better than the group coverage sometimes offered by an employer or residency program. That being said, there may be potential multi-life discount programs available to you - this is where 3 or more physicians in the same practice or medical group obtain individual policies, but with the same carrier and therefore can qualify for some nice discounts, especially female physicians.

- You mentioned you are in Florida. I believe you are going to have a 24-month benefit limitation for mental/nervous claims regardless of which carrier you go with. It is a state thing.

- Shopping online is good, but make sure you find someone who is actually proactive about comparing your options with you. You can try to do it yourself, but it is not likely to work out as well as working with a financial professional. It isn't about seeing as many quotes as possible, but seeing ther good ones and having the financial professional help you understand and see the differences.
 
+1 to what gfunk says 100%. Your biggest asset is the ability to earn an income, so it makes sense to protect that.
I recently began working with a financial advisor and he set me up with a reasonable policy through standard. As gfunk said, it's better to get it in residency than after. If you secure a policy in residency you can increase the amount later without additional exams or surveys, regardless if you're situation has changed.

I am assuming that " If your situation has changed" refers to your health situation. Isn't that fraud to increase your insured amount and not inform the company of a known change in your health situation. Please expound.... Thanks!
 
With disability insurance, there is an optional benefit rider called the "Future Increase Option" or "Future Purchase Option". Essentially the insured pays an additional premium to have this rider, which provides the ability to increase your monthly benefit, regardless of any changes in your health, as long as you are not already eligible for claim, and assuming your income has increased substantially enough to warrant the increase.

Not fraud because the insured is pre-underwritten for this additional amount of coverage, and is paying additional premium for the rights to exercise a benefit option in the future.

I would consider this a "must-have" for young physicians - unless of course you already qualify for the highest benefit amount available.
 
With disability insurance, there is an optional benefit rider called the "Future Increase Option" or "Future Purchase Option". Essentially the insured pays an additional premium to have this rider, which provides the ability to increase your monthly benefit, regardless of any changes in your health, as long as you are not already eligible for claim, and assuming your income has increased substantially enough to warrant the increase.

Not fraud because the insured is pre-underwritten for this additional amount of coverage, and is paying additional premium for the rights to exercise a benefit option in the future.

I would consider this a "must-have" for young physicians - unless of course you already qualify for the highest benefit amount available.

Can this rider be purchased only if you initiate coverage as a resident vs as an attending. Because Shogun0660 alluded to that fact. Also, Gfunk6 said that the rates are better as a resident. What are the facts concerning rates, increasing coverage and timing of securing the policy? Thanks for the scoop!
 
Can this rider be purchased only if you initiate coverage as a resident vs as an attending. Because Shogun0660 alluded to that fact. Also, Gfunk6 said that the rates are better as a resident. What are the facts concerning rates, increasing coverage and timing of securing the policy? Thanks for the scoop!


This rider can be purchased at any time, during training or as an attending. There are restrictions however on age - for example, you may not be eligible to purchase this rider after age 45. This is because insurance companies will only allow one to exercise the increase option up to a certain age (such as 45 or even 55 with some carriers). Depending on the person you work with, special approvals may be extended, but typically you are able to exercise these increases at each policy anniversary, up to the specified age.

Gfunk is correct, premiums are lower simply because you are younger as a resident. The younger one is, the cheaper the coverage (provided all else is equal). You may however, qualify for a higher benefit as a resident than as an attending:
Example- With special limit programs available to last-year residents, you may qualify for $6,500 of monthly benefit. Depending on your work situation as an attending, if you are provided group coverage by your employer, you may only be eligible to purchase $2,000 of monthly benefit, because the group coverage is included in your eligibility calculations. Since group coverage is not as good as individual, you would have been better off purchasing the $6,500 during residency.

The primary focus of securing the policy is your health (and also circumstances like the one listed above). Disability insurance underwriting is fairly complex and can be difficult - therefore you want to apply and obtain this type of coverage when you are still healthy. Is there a huge difference between last-year residency and first year attending? Maybe not, but why take the chance... In terms of premiums, the increase in cost is probably around 4% each year you wait.

On a side note, if it is the premiums that are holding you back, ask to see graded premium options. This is a graded schedule of premiums (cheaper today and becomes more costly every year). The benefit is to lock in the insurability now - then convert to level premium once your income is greater. Allows you to take advantage of good health, and still take advantage of lower guaranteed level rates.

The financial professional you work with should review all of this with you, but look for non-cancelable. Amongst other things, it secures that your premium schedule will not change over the years, as long as you always pay your premiums on time.
 
For those that are still looking for disability insurance, these are the list of questions I managed to come up with after reading various sites on the subject. Thought it might help if you are just starting to look at this stuff.

1) Pure own occupation definition?
2) How long before (#1) switches to any occupation definition?
3) Should be noncancellable and guaranteed renewable
4) Future Increase Option Rider
5) Cost of Living Adjustment Rider (not sure if physicians really need this)
6) Residual Disability rider with recovery benefits
7) Definition of presumptive disability - total vs. permanent vs. irrecoverable
8) Recurrent Disability/Time Waiver of Elimination Period
9) Elimination Period - Total disability or residual. What is the the accumulation period?
10) Read a specimen insurance policy
11) What are the exclusions

I have gotten quotes via www.doctordisability.com and www.protectyourincome.com and from a northwestern mutual agent.

Thanks for everyone's input. I am trying to decide between Guardian vs. Northwestern Mutual vs. Metlife. Welcome any thoughts. By the way, Guardian's mental issues coverage is for the whole benefit period, not just for 2 years. Anyone heard of unum's coverage?

The big question is also how good are these companies when time comes to pay out - are they pretty good at paying out or is it a miserable experience.
 
Great advice and list of things for your colleagues to look for. Although #2 shouldn't even be an issue. Realistically your policy should be Own-Occ for the full benefit period. If this is not the case, you're not looking at a very good option.

By the way, Guardian's mental issues coverage is for the whole benefit period, not just for 2 years.

The big question is also how good are these companies when time comes to pay out - are they pretty good at paying out or is it a miserable experience.

Have the financial reps from those websites review the policies with you again... Or just look at the bottom right of page 4 of 6 on your Guardian quote. You are certainly limited to 24-months, again because you are in FL. If you lived in GA, it wouldn't apply.

Regardless of this though, Guardian would still be the recommendation.

No one can answer the question of claim time, because it all depends on the situation. Talk to a disability insurance attorney. If you want the best chances though, go with the most favorable contract.
 
Dear MR Insurance,

If I may ask, what is your profession? Are you in the insurance arena and if so are you an independent fee-based agent or are you specifically an agent for a specific insurance company?

Also, thank you for the heads up on the FL exclusion

Lastly, can you tell me why your pick is for Guardian?

Thanks
 
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Dear MR Insurance,

If I may ask, what is your profession? Are you in the insurance arena and if so are you an independent fee-based agent or are you specifically an agent for a specific insurance company?

Also, thank you for the heads up on the FL exclusion

Lastly, can you tell me why your pick is for Guardian?

Thanks

I would say that I am in the financial arena. I do a lot of work with disability insurance but I am also securities licensed and do other financial services. I personally am contracted with a specific company - however I also own my business and therefore do what is best for my clients. My disability insurance business goes to about 5 of the major players: MetLife, Guardian, Standard, Principal and Union Central. My focus is to narrow the options down to 2 or 3 and then help the client make a final decision.

Just some clarity - I've never met or heard of a fee-based insurance agent. The reality is that anyone who sells you insurance will receive a commission. This isn’t a bad thing, but just something you’ll want to keep in mind. You should be able to tell relatively quickly whether you are viewed as just another commission check, or a potential client for life. You want to work with someone who is interested in working with/for you.

Without giving specific advice, I’d be between Met and Guardian (might even be worth doing some with each). If I’m not mistaken, Met does not have a 24-month benefit limitation for mental/nervous claims and is likely less expensive for Oncologists. But, the overall policy is less quality than Guardian. Depending on the claim scenario, Guardian’s residual disability benefit alone could mean the difference of you receiving tens of thousands in additional benefits.

Although mental/nervous is certainly an important factor, keep in mind that it makes up between 8-12% of claims (depending on the source).
So, putting cost aside:
Either buy Guardian and have the other 88-92% of disability causers covered more effectively, buy Guardian and MetLife and have all aspects covered, or buy MetLife and spend less but perhaps not as great of coverage.
 
I have used Paul Revere now for 20 years. I started during my 4th year of residency in early 1990s.
 
The best option is to find a broker who can get you several quotes from different companies.One way to find a broker would be to call Disability Insurance Services and ask them to recommend a broker in your area.My experience shows that there is a lot of conflicting advice out there.Make sure that you work with more than one person. Try working with a broker and also directly with some other companies.
 
The best option is to find a broker who can get you several quotes from different companies.One way to find a broker would be to call Disability Insurance Services and ask them to recommend a broker in your area.My experience shows that there is a lot of conflicting advice out there.Make sure that you work with more than one person. Try working with a broker and also directly with some other companies.

This is good advice, but can also lead to potential problems.

You need to do some research on your own first. If you happen to find an agent who represents a proprietary product which he/she pushes strongly, he/she will use whatever method they can to sell that product. Without having a basic understanding of the concepts related, you may not be able to recognize bad advice.

Take True Own-occupation vs. modified own-occupation. The true own-occupation definition of disability is the best option available today and will position an insured person in the best situation if benefits are ever needed, especially specialized physicians. However, I've heard agents who work for companies that do not sell True Own-occ try to sell their product by claiming that true own-occupation is "double-dipping" and they do not believe in it, which is why they don't sell it. The way I see it, who cares whether the agents believes in double-dipping - if it is the best option for the client, then this is what should be solicited.

Speaking with multiple agents is not a bad idea, but be careful of how you do so. Loyalty is a pretty important factor with financial services and the more loyal you are, the more work the agent will likely do for you. If you show that you are just shopping around, then what motive does the agent have to share his/her expertise?
 
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