Disability

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sweetalkr

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Sorry if I've asked this before, but does anyone else purchase disability outside of what their employers provide? Do y'all think it's worthwhile? I'm a bit skeptical to spend 300$/month but insuring myself seems no brainer. Sometimes ha to trust people who sell insurance?
Thanks ahead of time
 
Sorry if I've asked this before, but does anyone else purchase disability outside of what their employers provide? Do y'all think it's worthwhile? I'm a bit skeptical to spend 300$/month but insuring myself seems no brainer. Sometimes ha to trust people who sell insurance?
Thanks ahead of time

I spend way more than $300 month. And it's worthwhile depending on your activities and income. I ride a BMW S1000rr and race a STI around Road Atlanta for fun. Means I need disability because I do stupid things in the most controlled environment I can find.

YMMV
 
Sorry if I've asked this before, but does anyone else purchase disability outside of what their employers provide? Do y'all think it's worthwhile? I'm a bit skeptical to spend 300$/month but insuring myself seems no brainer. Sometimes ha to trust people who sell insurance?
Thanks ahead of time



Limits on employer sponsored policies tend to be very very low and definitely wont cover even a fraction of your current salary...get an individual policy.
 
Limits on employer sponsored policies tend to be very very low and definitely wont cover even a fraction of your current salary...get an individual policy.

ditto. get it. its worth the $300. i pay more, but i have to do my own, so i have two policies, they add to about 600 i think.
i am a real skeptic, but this is worth it.
 
ditto. get it. its worth the $300. i pay more, but i have to do my own, so i have two policies, they add to about 600 i think.
i am a real skeptic, but this is worth it.

Jeebus, do it. The employer is CTA, you need to CYA. I pay - independent of our corp - around $600/mo. This is a cost of doing business, do it.
 
After spending years caring for people paralyzed from freak accidents, I believe in disability insurance.

If you see mostly healthy ambulatory working folk you probably figure why bother, it'll never happen to me.
 
because your employer covers "some" of the payout, your extra insurance rate may be much lower. if you get ANY insurance, disability is the one you should have, as you are much more likely to get diabled then you are to die. i abhor paying for insurance, but its a necessary evil. look at old threads, and make sure it covers what you actually do (injections), rather than just your primary discipline.
 
Sorry if I've asked this before, but does anyone else purchase disability outside of what their employers provide? Do y'all think it's worthwhile? I'm a bit skeptical to spend 300$/month but insuring myself seems no brainer. Sometimes ha to trust people who sell insurance?
Thanks ahead of time

That's great that your employer offers group disability! At least this way if you can't get individual coverage then you'll have SOMETHING. Individual coverage isn't always easy to qualify for but it's an important thing to have.

You'll want to find out as much about your group policy as you can to determine what you'll need for individual. Does your group policy allow you to pay the taxes out of your paycheck so the benefit is tax free? Is the group policy portable? What exactly does it cover (some might cover base salary but no bonuses or incentive pay)? This will help you and your insurance agent determine the best policy for you.
 
problem is getting individual coverage AFTER you already have employer coverage - because they will rely on employer coverage to determine your coverage amount, and then if you lose your employer coverage (switch jobs, whatever) then you are stuck with a crappier individual coverage, which means you will then have to sign up for extra disability coverage at a later date (which can be trickier because you will have aged, and may have picked up some new medical diagnoses, that they will then in turn exclude from coverage)... crazy system

Not getting individual disability own-occ coverage is quite risky - and as a pain doc, the premium costs are a drop in the bucket.
 
Sorry if I've asked this before, but does anyone else purchase disability outside of what their employers provide? Do y'all think it's worthwhile? I'm a bit skeptical to spend 300$/month but insuring myself seems no brainer. Sometimes ha to trust people who sell insurance?
Thanks ahead of time


No question, buy your own DI. Purchase a FIO so when you leave the hosp and go PP you can increase w/o re-underwriting. Also, if you need it and they provide it will be taxed upon collection, not good. If you buy your own with post tax dollars you collect tax free.

No brainer, don't be pennywise and pound foolish.
 
Also, if you need it and they provide it will be taxed upon collection, not good. If you buy your own with post tax dollars you collect tax free.

I think this is the key.
You are already maxed out on how much coverage you can obtain. If you are getting it tax free it is like qualifying for additional coverage.
I have my own individual policy which I can get tax free benefits. Since this time I have joined a group which recently put in place employer benefits.
I will never give up mine (unless I amass a small fortune and the disability insurance becomes a moot point).

1. You never know if or when you will leave your current job that has group benefits. If you come down with some type of illness that precludes you from getting your own policy later, you are in effect stuck at your current job. I would rather have my freedom at a cost of $600 a month.
2. Mine allows me to get a different job should I become disabled and can no longer do interventional procedures. I could find one of those 30K a week script writing pill mills while they last.

In the end you are something like 6x more likely to collect on disability insurance than on term life insurance.
I hope to never have to collect on either but then again that is the whole point of insurance.
 
Also, if you need it and they provide it will be taxed upon collection, not good. If you buy your own with post tax dollars you collect tax free.

I think this is the key.
You are already maxed out on how much coverage you can obtain. If you are getting it tax free it is like qualifying for additional coverage.
I have my own individual policy which I can get tax free benefits. Since this time I have joined a group which recently put in place employer benefits.
I will never give up mine (unless I amass a small fortune and the disability insurance becomes a moot point).

1. You never know if or when you will leave your current job that has group benefits. If you come down with some type of illness that precludes you from getting your own policy later, you are in effect stuck at your current job. I would rather have my freedom at a cost of $600 a month.
2. Mine allows me to get a different job should I become disabled and can no longer do interventional procedures. I could find one of those 30K a week script writing pill mills while they last.

In the end you are something like 6x more likely to collect on disability insurance than on term life insurance.
I hope to never have to collect on either but then again that is the whole point of insurance.



I am glad that many in the forum are educated enough to know that disability insurance is absolutely needed. You would be surprised how many docs have only life insurance or neither life nor disability.
 
the only thing that is frustrating with disability insurance is actually getting them to pay.... i have 3 disabled physicians currently - and all 3 had own-occ disability insurance ... and I literally have to fill out forms every 1-2 months for each doc re-certiying that they are still disabled, just so that they will mail out the checks... and they still get docs-for-hire to review the records and then try to deny the disabiliyt (i don't know if you read a similar posting of mine - but recently had to argue with a retired endocrinologist in colorado who had never examined the patient, about why CRPS on high dose meds and subsequent cognitive impaiirment is technically disabled from functioning as a physician...unbelievable).
 
the only thing that is frustrating with disability insurance is actually getting them to pay.... i have 3 disabled physicians currently - and all 3 had own-occ disability insurance ... and I literally have to fill out forms every 1-2 months for each doc re-certiying that they are still disabled, just so that they will mail out the checks... and they still get docs-for-hire to review the records and then try to deny the disabiliyt (i don't know if you read a similar posting of mine - but recently had to argue with a retired endocrinologist in colorado who had never examined the patient, about why CRPS on high dose meds and subsequent cognitive impaiirment is technically disabled from functioning as a physician...unbelievable).

Who is the company(s)/ insurer (s) involved, then we know who not to buy from...
 
http://www.nairo.org/_pdf/uploads/nairo_white_paper_042007.pdf

Helpful reading.

I work as a peer reviewer for precerts, post-procedure necessity, disability, etc. When I get a call from another reviewer regarding my patients, I do several things.

1. Vet the doc: BC in same speciality, conflict of interest checks, derived income from reviews compared to practice (should be 10% or less).
2. Ask for $250 to talk, or let the chart stand on its own.
3. Ask for all questions to be faxed.

For Tenesma's guy: wrong specialty and retired- I would have told him he is not capable of performing the review, get your company to get a qualified doc, or get a different company to do the review.

You are not under any obligation to do the work for free, but if you feel strongly for your patient- it is reasonable. I do it for free unless the doc on the phone is rude or an idiot.
 
I really appreciate all of your input. I can't say thanks enough. I am waiting for my blood tests to come back and i expect to get some good news. As i get more information about all of this, i will post it so future guys will have the info on the company i use and the benefits, as well as costs.
 
the only thing that is frustrating with disability insurance is actually getting them to pay.... i have 3 disabled physicians currently - and all 3 had own-occ disability insurance ... and I literally have to fill out forms every 1-2 months for each doc re-certiying that they are still disabled, just so that they will mail out the checks... and they still get docs-for-hire to review the records and then try to deny the disabiliyt (i don't know if you read a similar posting of mine - but recently had to argue with a retired endocrinologist in colorado who had never examined the patient, about why CRPS on high dose meds and subsequent cognitive impaiirment is technically disabled from functioning as a physician...unbelievable).

I know I need to get on the ball and get disability coverage, but I wonder about disability insurance if you can't rely on the company to pay up if you actually become disabled.
 
I know I need to get on the ball and get disability coverage, but I wonder about disability insurance if you can't rely on the company to pay up if you actually become disabled.


this is exactly why insurance is the best business around. you pay them, they may or may not pay you back. what a racket.

anybody want to start up an insurance company with me?


but you DO need disability coverage
 
I know I need to get on the ball and get disability coverage, but I wonder about disability insurance if you can't rely on the company to pay up if you actually become disabled.

this is exactly why insurance is the best business around. you pay them, they may or may not pay you back. what a racket.

anybody want to start up an insurance company with me?


but you DO need disability coverage

Insurance companies are the business of selling policies, not paying claims. Paying claims reduces capital which would otherwise go to the shareholders. Paying claims is just bad business.

There is fraud on all sides of every subset of the insurance industry. In the end, he who holds the money makes the rules, and changes them as they see fit.
 
This was one of the best conversations I think I've read in awhile!

If anyone has any questions about any of the companies, let me know and I'll fill you in the best I can.
 
Would love to hear opinions on Guardian vs. Standard for true own-occ coverage in IPM, which would not require the physician to return to their base specialty if disabled. Or other companies if you feel they offer a better policy. Also, any opinions on necessary riders such as COLA, catastrophic, etc? Thanks!
 
Would love to hear opinions on Guardian vs. Standard for true own-occ coverage in IPM, which would not require the physician to return to their base specialty if disabled. Or other companies if you feel they offer a better policy. Also, any opinions on necessary riders such as COLA, catastrophic, etc? Thanks!

Guardian and Standard (depending on the state you're in) has two of the best contracts out there. Both have own occupation which would cover you if you can't perform your specific specialty. These two carriers will be your most expensive options but they are very good ones.

Other carriers that also have this definition but without as much built-in (again depending on your state) is Principal, Union Central, and MetLife. Mass Mutual is the only one that doesn't have own occupation for IPMs of the 6 main carriers. Each have their own individual nuances that you would need to look at based on what your needs are.

The Future Increase Options would be the next absolutely necessary rider to add to a contract. This allows you to purchase more benefit as your income rises without having to prove good health. So if your health changes, you can't be denied the additional benefit.

Cost of Living Adjustment is a good thing to have because if you are disabled for an extended period of time, you don't want to be living on the same paycheck as expenses continue to rise.

I am a big fan of the catastrophic rider but not many people have it. This is a low cost rider that adds additional benefit to your plan putting you even closer to 100% of your income. This rider will kick in if you are catastrophically disabled (you cannot perform 2 of the 6 daily activities of living). If a catastrophic disability were to occur, it is very likely that your expenses will increase whether due to health care costs, modifications to your home, and even modifications to your lifestyle. The extra benefit will help especially when the need is the greatest.

The last rider I'd feel is necessary is the residual benefit or partial disability rider. As a physician (depending on your specialty), you are probably more likely to get partially disabled. So if you have a loss of time, duties, and/or income you will receive a partial benefit (this varies widely by carrier so be sure to compare the features).

I hope that helps!
 
Guardian and Standard (depending on the state you're in) has two of the best contracts out there. Both have own occupation which would cover you if you can't perform your specific specialty. These two carriers will be your most expensive options but they are very good ones.

Other carriers that also have this definition but without as much built-in (again depending on your state) is Principal, Union Central, and MetLife. Mass Mutual is the only one that doesn't have own occupation for IPMs of the 6 main carriers. Each have their own individual nuances that you would need to look at based on what your needs are.

The Future Increase Options would be the next absolutely necessary rider to add to a contract. This allows you to purchase more benefit as your income rises without having to prove good health. So if your health changes, you can't be denied the additional benefit.

Cost of Living Adjustment is a good thing to have because if you are disabled for an extended period of time, you don't want to be living on the same paycheck as expenses continue to rise.

I am a big fan of the catastrophic rider but not many people have it. This is a low cost rider that adds additional benefit to your plan putting you even closer to 100% of your income. This rider will kick in if you are catastrophically disabled (you cannot perform 2 of the 6 daily activities of living). If a catastrophic disability were to occur, it is very likely that your expenses will increase whether due to health care costs, modifications to your home, and even modifications to your lifestyle. The extra benefit will help especially when the need is the greatest.

The last rider I'd feel is necessary is the residual benefit or partial disability rider. As a physician (depending on your specialty), you are probably more likely to get partially disabled. So if you have a loss of time, duties, and/or income you will receive a partial benefit (this varies widely by carrier so be sure to compare the features).

I hope that helps!

What's your 0.02 on NWM ?
 
Also pre-tax or post-tax issue, if post-tax, you can save around 3000 a year (30% tax bracket, and $9000 annual premium). Considering the probability of receiving the benefit is relatively small, why not save 3K for now?
 
What's your 0.02 on NWM ?

My 0.02 on Northwestern Mutual... They are a financially strong, mutual company with pretty good life products but not a fan of their disability for physicians. Using the words "medical specific" doesn't necessarily make it the best option for medical professionals but I'd rather someone invest in their policy than nothing at all. their product just doesn't match up with the others in overall protection for the cost.

I can share comparisons privately but I believe there are other posts on the forum that share this same thought. Sorry for dodging a little, I don't want to get in trouble with the admin for bashing.
 
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