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Have you taken courses? Then yes, you need to report it. It'll probably show up on Student Clearing House as well. If you f*** around with this get got (which you probably will), you will be blacklisted and be subject to dismissal if you already got in.
 
DoctoOcto said:
Have you taken courses? Then yes, you need to report it. It'll probably show up on Student Clearing House as well. If you f*** around with this get got (which you probably will), you will be blacklisted and be subject to dismissal if you already got in.
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I've read that it is my federal right that I can remove that information from Student Clearing House and other sites since it's my education history. If I do that, how would I get caught?
 
Schools can't DISCLOSE it without your consent (FERPA), but schools can also just make you sign a FERPA waiver or just rescind/deny your acceptance. I'm fairly certain you cannot straight up remove records of attending a school. That'd be incredibly broken.

"This information can be obtained directly from the institution you attended or through a database like the National Student Clearinghouse, which maintains records on dates of attendance and degrees and certificates awarded for more than 130 million students from 3,400 different colleges and universities.

The schools share this information with the Clearinghouse, which also receives graduation information from some high schools. Its website features a search function that allows your potential employer to search for degree or certificate information, dates of attendance and whether you are currently enrolled in a school. Federal law allows you to block disclosure of this information by making a request to the school you attended. These confidentiality requests are permanent and can only be removed by written request from the student."
 
DoctoOcto said:
Schools can't DISCLOSE it without your consent (FERPA), but schools can also just make you sign a FERPA waiver or just rescind/deny your acceptance. I'm fairly certain you cannot straight up remove records of attending a school. That'd be incredibly broken.

"This information can be obtained directly from the institution you attended or through a database like the National Student Clearinghouse, which maintains records on dates of attendance and degrees and certificates awarded for more than 130 million students from 3,400 different colleges and universities.

The schools share this information with the Clearinghouse, which also receives graduation information from some high schools. Its website features a search function that allows your potential employer to search for degree or certificate information, dates of attendance and whether you are currently enrolled in a school. Federal law allows you to block disclosure of this information by making a request to the school you attended. These confidentiality requests are permanent and can only be removed by written request from the student."
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I thought this means I can "make a request to the school you attended' which would be the school I'm getting my master's from. I can then tell them to not disclose this information.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
I thought this means I can "make a request to the school you attended' which would be the school I'm getting my master's from. I can then tell them to not disclose this information.
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Yes, and medical schools will make you sign a FERPA waiver. You can't straight up make a school you attended disappear from your records. If that were the case, then every med school applicant will be doing so to hide poor grades.
 
DoctoOcto said:
Yes, and medical schools will make you sign a FERPA waiver. You can't straight up make a school you attended disappear from your records. If that were the case, then every med school applicant will be doing so to hide poor grades.
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Ok what if I do not say on my application I attended said school. The med school will request information from my undergrad institution only then I'm assuming.

Anyhow, let's assume I cannot do this. What is a good strategy to apply with a 2.8 GPA from an online CS master's, but a 3.85 undergrad GPA.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Ok what if I do not say on my application I attended said school. The med school will request information from my undergrad institution only then I'm assuming.

Anyhow, let's assume I cannot do this. What is a good strategy to apply with a 2.8 GPA from an online CS master's, but a 3.85 undergrad GPA.
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Oh Yeah, and I'll have to drop the program too to apply for med schools as there's no way I can do both and a full time software engineering gig (my day job)
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Ok what if I do not say on my application I attended said school. The med school will request information from my undergrad institution only then I'm assuming.

Anyhow, let's assume I cannot do this. What is a good strategy to apply with a 2.8 GPA from an online CS master's, but a 3.85 undergrad GPA.
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I'm fairly certain they will request records from Student Clearing House, not the institutions themselves, and make you sign a FERPA waiver. Take this thought out of your head, it's essentially impossible and risky as hell.

Your uGPA is strong, so there's that. Grad GPAs do not get mixed with uGPAs, but I guess it could raise eyebrows. If you want to show schools that your low gGPA is a fluke, do a strong postbacc in upper division science courses, and nail the MCAT.
 
DoctoOcto said:
I'm fairly certain they will request records from Student Clearing House, not the institutions themselves, and make you sign a FERPA waiver. Take this thought out of your head, it's essentially impossible and risky as hell.

Your uGPA is strong, so there's that. Grad GPAs do not get mixed with uGPAs, but I guess it could raise eyebrows. If you want to show schools that your low gGPA is a fluke, do a strong postbacc in upper division science courses, and nail the MCAT.
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I dont have time to do all that extra coursework; I did not work hard all of undergrad just to re-do those classes again. Nailing the MCAT is possible. I guess more importantly, will they ignore the low GPA if I tell them I was doing the degree part-time (virtually) while working full-time 60 hrs+ weeks for some of those semesters, in a subject that is not related to medicine. I've literally had to withdraw from a class 2-3 times because it was near impossible to do it while working full-time. Obviously that is not happening in medical school as you are a full time student. Seems clear that comp sci was not cut out for me (I'm a great programmer, but can't stand the classes).
 
Can some others jump in regarding Student Clearning House as well? Thanks for the multiple opinions. This has been helpful.
 
gyngyn said:
You will sign an affirmation that you have included transcripts from all schools attended.
Lying on your application will have a chilling effect on your chances for years to come.
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Ok so what do I do about this grad gpa?
 
Ok, so I guess the new topic of this thread is - how do I salvage this situation? I calculated my combined cGPA and gradGPA and assuming the course units are equal to undergrad courses, my new gpa would be around a 3.71. However, there is a downward trend obviously, but the the bright side is the courses are CS courses and are not related to medicine in any way. Would a 508+ MCAT make up for this?
 
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A 508 MCAT score will not make up for a downward trend. Even if the courses are not related to medicine, they were related to the field you were working in.

Based on your prior post, I encourage you to make sure you are not just trying to find a way to escape from CS:

forums.studentdoctor.net

Honest Advice Needed With Dropping "Pre-med" Senior Year

Hi all. It's my senior year of college at a top 20 university and I am 85% sure I will NOT be applying to medical school despite my undergrad career as a "pre-med." I have a 3.8 GPA and degrees in chemistry and business. I'm looking for people who have been in my shoes and wanting to hear what...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
So then my question is, what will be the best to make up for it. I was working full-time when pursuing my master's, I was barely a student. I had to withdraw a class twice because it was difficult to manage a 30 hour course per week when I also work full-time 40-50 hours per week. Please do the math.
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You will get little leeway with admissions, as you chose to start this program while working. And this is before having to get into explaining why you want to pursue medicine instead of CS.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Thank you. Actually explaining that part is not very difficult... I was always interested in medicine but had competing interests in tech and had the opportunity to work in tech upon graduation so I just went with that. However, unexpectedly, personal circumstances involving improving my personal health and becoming interested in geroscience made me decide over the last two years I want to pursue medicine and that working in tech is not very meaningful (especially as a lot of my work is mostly building automations for financial clients etc). I actually spend a lot of my free time reading biology papers... lol. The explanation is easy... and I'm sure I can write that much better in a personal statement.

My big mistake was choosing to actually get a degree in CS while working since I was self-taught programmer up to that point (never even took a cs class in college). But I just realized over time that this part-time degree was not working with me, and my time and interests were always going elsewhere... like med and biology lol.
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Yes but this explanation will not make up for the graduate school courses.


I know you don’t want to apply DO but at some point you have to decide whether you would rather not be a doctor or not be a DO

a 518+ would help a lot for MD but you shouldn’t take until you are consistently scoring that in practice exams (like on all of the aamc FLs)
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Yes but this explanation will not make up for the graduate school courses.


I know you don’t want to apply DO but at some point you have to decide whether you would rather not be a doctor or not be a DO

a 518+ would help a lot for MD but you shouldn’t take until you are consistently scoring that in practice exams (like on all of the aamc FLs)
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I want to see more evidence that this is true. I find it hard med schools would just overlook my track record in college just because of some things that happened in a freakin online master's degree over covid.
 
I wonder if it would help to let you guys know the graduate courses I took are actually more like an accelerated-bachelors degree, but with the title of master's. It's not even a master's in science, it's like an unique name that the university I'm taking it with came up with for.
 
I am glad you are feeling better. If the subject of biology interests you again and you are ok with having to learn and perhaps memorize many things, then that is good. I would recommend you do some clinical work though to see if you enjoy helping patients who are sick. It has been a while and you may have forgotten about aspects of it that you did not like.
 
The master degree is less of a problem than the 508.

508 is below the median of accepted Md students and a 508/3.71 with no red flags would be advised to apply mostly DO and some low tier MD

For one with red flags, DO is more likely, can still try MD but it’s not probable unless the score comes up.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
I want to see more evidence that this is true. I find it hard med schools would just overlook my track record in college just because of some things that happened in a freakin online master's degree over covid.
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It's a seller's market. Med schools can afford to take a pass on candidates with your academics.

See if you can retroactively withdraw from all your MS courses. This is a thing at some UG schools.

Otherwise, read my post on reinvention for premeds
 
Goro said:
It's a seller's market. Med schools can afford to take a pass on candidates with your academics.

See if you can retroactively withdraw from all your MS courses. This is a thing at some UG schools.

Otherwise, read my post on reinvention for premeds
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Thank you for the advice goro. I have not heard of the retroactive withdrawal. Would this solve the bad grades in the masters degree problem if available? (and that the med schools would not see the poor performance)
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
The master degree is less of a problem than the 508.

508 is below the median of accepted Md students and a 508/3.71 with no red flags would be advised to apply mostly DO and some low tier MD

For one with red flags, DO is more likely, can still try MD but it’s not probable unless the score comes up.
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Thanks for the clarification. I actually just used 508+ as a random number I thought the average score of applicants was a 508ish. I will do whatever it takes to be in the 70 percentile for MCAT scores. Also objevitvely, this does not seem true that a 508/3.71 is applying mostly DOs. I had multiple ORM friends who had those stats and applied to just a few MDs and still got acceptances, albeit some were shaky (e.g. applied to 10 schools, accepted at 1).
 
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intoxicatedMoose said:
I want to see more evidence that this is true. I find it hard med schools would just overlook my track record in college just because of some things that happened in a freakin online master's degree over covid.
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A downward trend is never good. Medical schools aren't interested in 'has-beens' and those who have apparently peaked in college. If you want to improve your chances, you need more recent coursework to show that you can still excel academically and that those online CS grades were an anomaly. Just my thoughts.
 
Moko said:
A downward trend is never good. Medical schools aren't interested in 'has-beens' and those who have apparently peaked in college. If you want to improve your chances, you need more recent coursework to show that you can still excel academically and that those online CS grades were an anomaly. Just my thoughts.
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What if I do well on the MCAT which im taking right before applying.

It seems rn the biggest problem is getting rid of thosegrades from my cs program. If there's anyway those can be not reported, that would be amazing. Especially as they are not indicative in any way of my would-be performance in medical school.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
What if I do well on the MCAT which im taking right before applying.

It seems rn the biggest problem is getting rid of thosegrades from my cs program. If there's anyway those can be not reported, that would be amazing. Especially as they are not indicative in any way of my would-be performance in medical school.
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A single metric does not make a medical school application it's the entire app that counts.
 
Goro said:
A single metric does not make a medical school application it's the entire app that counts.
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From the sound of the rest of the thread, it seems like the single metric is killing the app before we get to that stage though.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
What if I do well on the MCAT which im taking right before applying.

It seems rn the biggest problem is getting rid of thosegrades from my cs program. If there's anyway those can be not reported, that would be amazing. Especially as they are not indicative in any way of my would-be performance in medical school.
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You have no way of concluding this without showing recent grades. And everyone hopes to score well on the MCAT.
 
Can I ask if the institution that hosts your online masters degree is accredited? If it's Corinthian or from a military college, i would have to check.

How did you pay for tuition?How will it affect your credit and financial aid? Won't that show your past enrollment in your online CS program? Need to check with financial aid experts.

I don't get your comment that what you want to do cannot be done with a DO degree. That already raises red flags if you aren't motivated to actually be a doctor. What is this mysterious goal? Health tech and health information systems degrees which are different from CS. We need plenty of encryption experts to help keep private information away from any baddies.
 
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Happy to explain more through DMs. Sorry that I have been very secretive. I generally do not like to post these things on public forums.
Mr.Smile12 said:
Can I ask if the institution that hosts your online masters degree is accredited? If it's Corinthian or from a military college, i would have to check.

How did you pay for tuition?How will it affect your credit and financial aid? Won't that show your past enrollment in your online CS program? Need to check with financial aid experts.

I don't get your comment that what you want to do cannot be done with a DO degree. That already raises red flags if you aren't motivated to actually be a doctor. What is this mysterious goal? Health tech and health information systems degrees which are different from CS. We need plenty of encryption experts to help keep private information away from any baddies.
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Yes it's accredited. I am paying for tuition out of a 529 fund. Will not affect any financial aid or credit - all expenses are not an issue for me, no need for FA. And yes sorry it's been secretive. I would like to pursue a specific speciality in academic medicine. I generally do not like sharing plans on public forums so I'm happy to DM.
 
MD schools don’t include grades earned in a masters program in your CGPA. They are certainly available and listed on your grids . The reason for this is because it is the overwhelming feeling that grades earned in a grad program are usually greatly inflated and don’t give a true picture of your abilities. Interestingly, DO schools do include these grades. In your case this didn’t hold true. You had a sharp decline in grades. Who knows what schools are going to think. If your MCAT is 512+ you’ll probably be okay for interviews with a well developed list. But you might need a reasonable explanation of what happened in the grad program. Make sure your total app is as strong as it can be.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Ok, so I guess the new topic of this thread is - how do I salvage this situation? I calculated my combined cGPA and gradGPA and assuming the course units are equal to undergrad courses, my new gpa would be around a 3.71. However, there is a downward trend obviously, but the the bright side is the courses are CS courses and are not related to medicine in any way. Would a 508+ MCAT make up for this?
Click to expand...

As already stated, your grad GPA will not be combined with your undergrad GPA to calculate an overall GPA. You'll simply have your very solid undergrad GPA and then your graduate record.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
My big mistake was choosing to actually get a degree in CS while working since I was self-taught programmer up to that point (never even took a cs class in college). But I just realized over time that this part-time degree was not working with me, and my time and interests were always going elsewhere. I wish the circumstances were different badly as I've effed up my grades quite a bit in the degree as I never took it seriously and actually thought for a long time that was the last degree I was gonna pursue. I know that sounds like I got lazy and honestly it's a bit of the truth... there were also other personal reasons involving the communities I grew up in and parents that made me very stubborn to the idea of pursuing medicine back in undergrad... so. A lot of stuff.
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Then you should apply if you want to go to medical school and explain yourself, just as you have here. Tons of pre-meds, including myself, earned terrible grades during periods in which we weren't considering medical school and never thought the poor grades would come back to haunt us. You've got to overcome your mistakes just like the rest of us. I don't personally think you're dead in the water, but you likely need to change your tune from thinking you're owed some sort of pardon to owning what happened and having confidence in the rest off your application.
 
skeptastic said:
Then you should apply if you want to go to medical school and explain yourself, just as you have here. Tons of pre-meds, including myself, earned terrible grades during periods in which we weren't considering medical school and never thought the poor grades would come back to haunt us. You've got to overcome your mistakes just like the rest of us. I don't personally think you're dead in the water, but you likely need to change your tune from thinking you're owed some sort of pardon to owning what happened and having confidence in the rest off your application.
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Thank you and I agree. I was a bit freaked out last night about dealing with the masters GPA for sure.
 
Is there a spot on the application to explain away the bad grades and such? I was thinking I could make an explanation there for what happened with this master's program.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Is there a spot on the application to explain away the bad grades and such? I was thinking I could make an explanation there for what happened with this master's program.
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Agree with above that you likely can explain on secondaries... but goodness gracious, you've got to get away from this idea that you're going to "explain away" bad grades. You chose, to enroll in this program, you earned the bad grades. You need to own these mistakes and prove that you're going to do better in med school.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Is there a spot on the application to explain away the bad grades and such? I was thinking I could make an explanation there for what happened with this master's program.
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The problem is that explanations almost always come off as excuses, or worse, displays of poor judgement.
 
Goro said:
The problem is that explanations almost always come off as excuses, or worse, displays of poor judgement.
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Choosing to enroll in the degree and then not doing my best in it was very much poor judgement that I regret very much. As said earlier, I was under the impression I would never be considering applying to anything remotely as GPA-nitpicky as med school at the time.
 
intoxicatedMoose said:
Choosing to enroll in the degree and then not doing my best in it was very much poor judgement that I regret very much. As said earlier, I was under the impression I would never be considering applying to anything remotely as GPA-nitpicky as med school at the time.
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Lots of nuance here in your own situation

Firstly, as tot he bold, I was thinking more in terms of people who get sick or have some major life event smack them with a 2x45 but don't have the common sense to withdraw or take a LOA at that time. They just try to power through but end up wrecking thier GPAs.

Then there are the people who just don't know their limits, over-extend themselves, and end up wrecking thier GPAs.

As to the red, this is actually fine. It's not an excuse nor have anything to do with poor judgement. Some people come to Medicine later in life. For them, they usually have to engage in GPA repair (I call it reinvention) via a DIY post-bac or an SMP.

So, in your case, if you asked about the MS, just tell the truth.
 
Late to the party, but I'd like to add some thoughts. If you are explaining, your losing. Better to own whatever you must, then demonstrate how you have reflected and overcome the obstacles that contributed to your poor performance. You have a nice GPA, but will need some reinvention, imo, to show you have overcome the obstacles. That means some grade improvement, and I think a diy post back might be best, especially if you are working full time. Next you need a 512ish MCAT, with the ish being like 512 to 515. One last comment, everyone in med school is smart, so strong applicants are the norm and common. Med school is hard, and so is being a physician. Long hours, crabby sick patients, clueless administrators, sleepless nights, you get it. Make sure you are excited about medicine because some bright people, well, they just don't do hard and... become unhappy doctors. Good luck and best wishes!
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
508 is below the median of accepted Md students and a 508/3.71 with no red flags would be advised to apply mostly DO and some low tier MD
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I see this said here frequently, but I would disagree that a student with those stats should apply "mostly DO" based on the stats I see with students applying from my program in aggregate. Perhaps if you're looking at highly competitive states or private programs, perhaps, but for students with strong IS options I consistently have students getting in with lower stats to MD programs.

Is it a good thing to broaden applications to DO programs as well? Sure. But I would not consider a 508/3.7 "low" given strong other application portions (experience, volunteering, etc.).
 
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eigen said:
I see this said here frequently, but I would disagree that a student with those stats should apply "mostly DO" based on the stats I see with students applying from my program in aggregate. Perhaps if you're looking at highly competitive states or private programs, perhaps, but for students with strong IS options I consistently have students getting in with lower stats to MD programs.

Is it a good thing to broaden applications to DO programs as well? Sure. But I would not consider a 508/3.7 "low" given strong other application portions (experience, volunteering, etc.).
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We all know that IS MD schools favor the home team. Kids from, say, CA don't have that luxury.
 
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