Disclosing a misdemeanor on primary

[yoz]

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I had a question about disclosing a mip on the primary. i got an mip during my freshmen year but it was dismissed so according to the long prompt on the primary application i answered i wasn't convicted of a misdemeanor( i talked to several people at the court that i got that charge and i was told due to legalities i was not convicted and didn't need to answer yes). As a result, i answered no and turned in my primaries a while ago because according to the terms on the primary im not convicted.

However, i'm concerned now because it will show up in criminal background checks and schools will now see it. It's not like i lied about it but i feel as though it will be a red flag. A couple of schools have asked me in the secondary whether there is anything that the admssions committe should know... should i explain it in the secondaries?

"Although I believe that disclosure of this incident is not required by your application, in the spirit of full disclosure, I would like to make you aware of/bring up to your attention/mention that ....

Also if someone has the exact prompt about the misdemeanor that would be more useful so i can write a better explanation in the secondaries i cant see it for some reason

thanks and sorry for the long paragraph.

 

[adavis23]

you were never convicted of it so why is it going to show up on your CBC?

 

[Optimus123]

I am 100% certain that charges can show up on a background check without a conviction, but it varies based on the legal technicalities of a given case.

I strongly reccomend that you contact a lawyer and read him the specific AMCAS text and ask if you are expected to disclose the charge. Also, be sure he is willing to formally back you if anything ever comes up with the school.

FULLY handle it now or it will come back to haunt you a few months down the line. You do not want to have to be like "but some random person and the court said it was OK!" I believe you, but anyone could just make that up.

 

[yoz]

Hey optimus thanks for the advice, i already turned in the primaries... i already got verified 5 days ago (hopefully this doesnt haunt me 🙁. i checked with people in the court, 2 different people, i read them the amcas text before i submitted and they told me i didnt have to disclose it. I didn't ask a lawyer though. On the other hand, if a prompt on a secondary asks if i have got arrested, i do have to disclose it.

I know it will show up on my criminal background check, people in the court said it will too, but from what i have looked up on sdn it will show up on the cbc as dismissed or dropped. I'm not certain about this so if anyone with experience could please verify or explain i would be grateful and it would save me some stress. I'm just worried that it will show up and schools will automatically throw out my application


The problem for me is that it wont let me see the small text anymore on the primary because i submitted my primaries already. I called amcas too and they couldn't tell me the prompt either.

A couple of the schools i have sent to have conducted a background check upon receiving my application. Should i explain my situation in the secondary, and if they dont have anywhere to explain do you think it is worth sending them a letter explaining my situation. If i had a chance to redo my application i would have probably disclosed it even though i didnt have to, to save myself the stress but idk, what do you think my options are or am i simply freaking out for no reason.

*if anyone has not turned in their primary could you copy and paste me the prompt so i can explain it in my secondaries my exact situation and call a lawyer i would be grateful. Sorry for the long paragraph

 

[FreestyleKayak]

My advice to you is to be fully honest. No one is going to reject you based on a single MIP. Find the best place to explain in the secondaries and tell them exactly what you told us - that you were not convicted but were charged. All charges will show up on a background check so it is best not to let them be suprised. If you are up front and honest about everything you will have nothing to worry about.

I have a similar situation to yours. When I went to my advisor and asked about this he said I need to, "grab the bull by the horns," so to speak.

 

[AspenGrove]

I am kind of in your same predicament. I was charged with two misdemeanors while I was a senior in high school (I was 17 so they are on my adult record). Since then I hired a lawyer and had one of the charges expunged and the other one non-disclosed (both of these are legal orders by a judge saying the charges should be removed from my record as if they never existed). However, the justice system has its flaws and often these charges do show up on my background check when I apply for jobs or volunteer organizations.

I applied to med school 2 years ago and I listed these charges on my application (primary and secondaries). I was told by some people that the adcoms would rather see that you are honest than question you later if charges do show up on a background check. I think this was a huge mistake. I know I was red flagged because every single interview I went on (which was only 3 Texas schools, I was a TX resident) my past record was brought up. At one of the schools I interviewed with the dean of admissions and he questioned me hard-core and basically treated me like a criminal.

My charges have been legally removed from my record and medical schools should not be allowed to use these records to make any decisions. However, if you choose to come clean and tell them, there is no guarantee that they won’t use the info.

Medical schools do not run background checks until after you interview with them and you accept a spot in their class (at least that’s how they did 2 years ago). I have applied this year and I am not disclosing any of my past criminal history to them. If the time comes and something does show up on my criminal history that’s when I will explain the situation and mail them copies of the court orders declaring the charges expunged. I am lucky enough to have a lawyer in the family who has advised me on this and will be handling the legal aspects. You should find yourself one too and seek some professional advice.

Also, medical schools ask for criminal history mostly because some people with very bad criminal histories should not be doctors (for many reasons) and actually can’t be doctors because the licensing boards will not grant them a medical license if the candidate has any crime of “moral turpitude”. Note that this term is open to interpretation, and will be up to the board to decide if you get the license or not. Basically (caution this is my opinion and it does assume a lot), if something does show up and you can prove to the medical school that you will be able to get a license they should have no reason to revoke your admissions. I say this with confidence, but obviously I am only an applicant like you and can’t speak for the actual med schools. These are my opinions I have come to form by speaking with a few layers and the Texas licensing board. You will have to make the decision for yourself.

A kind of interesting thing I learned while interviewing at the school where the dean grilled me was he told me that the year before he had interviewed a student with a felony. This school would not accept him (he did not tell me it was because of the felony or not). The dean did tell me the felon was accepted to UT Southwestern. I am still not sure on how to interpret this.

Not sure if this helps or not, just thought I’d share a bit.

 

[Optimus123]

I am kind of in your same predicament. I was charged with two misdemeanors while I was a senior in high school (I was 17 so they are on my adult record). Since then I hired a lawyer and had one of the charges expunged and the other one non-disclosed (both of these are legal orders by a judge saying the charges should be removed from my record as if they never existed). However, the justice system has its flaws and often these charges do show up on my background check when I apply for jobs or volunteer organizations.

I applied to med school 2 years ago and I listed these charges on my application (primary and secondaries). I was told by some people that the adcoms would rather see that you are honest than question you later if charges do show up on a background check. I think this was a huge mistake. I know I was red flagged because every single interview I went on (which was only 3 Texas schools, I was a TX resident) my past record was brought up. At one of the schools I interviewed with the dean of admissions and he questioned me hard-core and basically treated me like a criminal.

My charges have been legally removed from my record and medical schools should not be allowed to use these records to make any decisions. However, if you choose to come clean and tell them, there is no guarantee that they won’t use the info.

Medical schools do not run background checks until after you interview with them and you accept a spot in their class (at least that’s how they did 2 years ago). I have applied this year and I am not disclosing any of my past criminal history to them. If the time comes and something does show up on my criminal history that’s when I will explain the situation and mail them copies of the court orders declaring the charges expunged. I am lucky enough to have a lawyer in the family who has advised me on this and will be handling the legal aspects. You should find yourself one too and seek some professional advice.

Also, medical schools ask for criminal history mostly because some people with very bad criminal histories should not be doctors (for many reasons) and actually can’t be doctors because the licensing boards will not grant them a medical license if the candidate has any crime of “moral turpitude”. Note that this term is open to interpretation, and will be up to the board to decide if you get the license or not. Basically (caution this is my opinion and it does assume a lot), if something does show up and you can prove to the medical school that you will be able to get a license they should have no reason to revoke your admissions. I say this with confidence, but obviously I am only an applicant like you and can’t speak for the actual med schools. These are my opinions I have come to form by speaking with a few layers and the Texas licensing board. You will have to make the decision for yourself.

A kind of interesting thing I learned while interviewing at the school where the dean grilled me was he told me that the year before he had interviewed a student with a felony. This school would not accept him (he did not tell me it was because of the felony or not). The dean did tell me the felon was accepted to UT Southwestern. I am still not sure on how to interpret this.

Not sure if this helps or not, just thought I’d share a bit.

A few things about this.

First, when something is "expunged" that is one of the few special cases where you legitimately do not need to include it on the AMCAS, and they say this directly. They could not later revoke your acceptance for not mentioning an expunged charge. However, there are types of plea deal for example where you are not convicted, but you are still obligated to include the charge by AMCAS guidelines. It all depends on the legal technicalities of your case.

Second, I also applied with an MIP on my record, and I can tell you that it generally was *not* an issue in the least. I have discussed this with the dean of admissions at a top ten medical school, and they told me they didn't care in the least or think it would be an issue with any school. Adcomms recognize that we make dumb decisions sometimes and many undergraduates got drunk underage at times. I had many interviews and it was almost never brought up, and when it was brought up it was blatantly not a big deal based on the way it was presented.

 

[Mattabet]

I agree with Optimus. I also had a friend with a ticket for possession of alcohol as a minor, and she'll be going into her M2 year.

More generally, the thing about legal reading is that you just have to do exactly what it says. If it says, 'list misdemeanors and felonies you were convicted of', then you are expected to do exactly that - you do not have to tell 'extra truth' that may or may not come up later.

 

[BerlinDude]

I applied to med school 2 years ago and I listed these charges on my application (primary and secondaries). I was told by some people that the adcoms would rather see that you are honest than question you later if charges do show up on a background check. I think this was a huge mistake. I know I was red flagged because every single interview I went on (which was only 3 Texas schools, I was a TX resident) my past record was brought up. At one of the schools I interviewed with the dean of admissions and he questioned me hard-core and basically treated me like a criminal.

Not sure if this helps or not, just thought I’d share a bit.

Well what was the nature of the situation (if you don't mind sharing)?

 

[AspenGrove]

I was arrested for fighting and charged with a class A misdemeanor for assault. Then, a few months later I got arrested for making a false report to a police officer about my friend’s car being stolen while I knew it wasn’t and that he was just drunk and drove it into a ditch (class B misdemeanor). The reason why I disclosed everything the last time I applied was because I was arrested for lying.

I do not know exactly why I was not accepted. None of the schools would give me an exact answer. I do think that my honesty of disclosing too much about my criminal history played a part. However, my EC’s were not great and my MCAT score could have been higher. Also, I used too much or my PS describing my past and it turned out to be a very negative PS.

I have done my best to fix everything from the last time I applied. I have some great EC’s now, higher MCAT score, and I am not disclosing anything. I know my situation is a bit different than a MIP, but if the law says it’s not on your record then it’s not on your record. But you better make extra sure it’s not on your record.