Discouraging Shadowing Experience

[EarthtoneJon]

I am wondering how many of you have had bad experiences shadowing a physician, and for those of you who've had both good and bad experiences, maybe you can provide some perspective. What makes / breaks the experience for you? Is it the physician, patients, other staff members, or the day's schedule?

My experience shadowing a cardiologist has been mostly bad. The doctor practices with 2 other cardiologists, so the facility is always busy, and there is virtually no down time. While I understand that I am just a "shadow," I was expecting a little more commentary from the physician. There are a few MAs, nurses, technicians, and administrative people who ask "how's it going?" and are generally engaging, but the physician does not make an attempt to include me. I also realize that it is my responsibility to be assertive, ask questions where appropriate, etc. but I really do not feel as though I have been given a chance.

I am friendly to all staff members, willing to help (worked as a CNA for 2 years) and generally curious, but the physician does not show any inclination toward "taking me under her wing" so to speak. Personally, if there were a young, seemingly intelligent, personable guy asking to follow me around, I would engage him, ask him questions, challenge his knowledge a little, introduce him to the other physicians, and just have fun with the situation. I am trying to get the most out of the experience, but have no such luck.

Just as an example:

Sometimes the physician wants to see a patient in private, presumably for the patient's sake- totally understandable. Instead of giving me a heads up, like "Hey, would you mind waiting outside for the next appointment?" I walk with the doctor all the way down the hall, only to have the exam room door shut in my face. This has happened twice, and both times I was completely humiliated. I think I will cast my shadow over another clinic.

Has anybody else had a similar experience?

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[DrWily]

Well when I shadowed my two physicians, both acted in the same way (to one another, not to your doctor). They would walk with me down to the patient's room and ask the patient if it was ok for me to sit in. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In the room with the patient, I was merely a fly on the wall so I could listen and see how the doctor-patient relationship worked. Rarely would the doctor's engage me unless it was something that they felt was good to know. However, after each visit the doctors would ask if I had any questions, and we would chat a little about each patient. Nothing mind-blowing or challenging.. just general feelings and opinions.

As far as participating, I highly doubt they would use you in any situation even with medical training because you are not an employee there nor does their insurance cover you. It will be their ass if you did something wrong. As far as her closing you out, I don't know why she would agree to you shadowing her if she didn't want to help you out. Maybe she's just not a people person, or maybe her understanding of you shadowing is just so you can see the day-to-day and write it down on your application.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I shadowed a plastic surgeon who did dermatology type stuff on tues and plastic surgery type stuff on thurs. Tues was great but I was with another med student so basically every other person. I didn't think thursday would be much different. On Thurs, nobody let me in so I spent literally 8 hours standing in his hallway or sitting on the bench at the end. It sucked. And stupid me, went back thinking the next thursday would be different. It wasn't. Those days were horrible.

 

[physcigirl27]

from my experience, try to find physicians that are used to students. I was at a REALLY small (but well known ) pediatric hospital when I was a freshman in college (and torn between medicine and another career). I somehow started shadowing a physician in the ICU and he was amazing. I knew absolutely NOTHING but he would always ask me after we saw a patient if I had any questions and would let me round with the 4th year residents and sit in on the M&Ms. I think it had to do with the fact that he was used to having students follow him around.

sorry about your bad experience though :/ It really does suck, so I know how you feel.

 

[Loudster]

I shadowed 4 doctors in total for varying amounts. The first doctor seemed really awesome at first and he even met me in town and we just chatted for like an hour one evening. Very nice guy.

When I shadowed him he would ask "do you have any questions?" and so I'd ask questions but after a little while I could tell that he really didn't want to answer my questions. I think he was only offering to be polite. Well, I didn't realize that soon enough and he left me with the distinct impression that I was bugging him which obviously didn't make me feel great at the end of the day. The funny thing is that as far as what he did during the day and what he showed me, it was entirely the same as with the other 3 doctors. Same basic protocol and only maybe 1 in 20 patients would request that I not be present during their appointment. I don't take it personally, I just think that he and I had different personalities and probably wouldn't have meshed well in other settings either honestly. It happens.

The last two doctors I shadowed for about 40 or so hours a piece over the course of a couple months. They were both awesome. The one was an attending for a local family medicine residency program, super nice, loved that I had questions, took time to explain things to me. I was introduced to the residents and had plenty of opportunity to interact with them as well which opened my eyes to what residency could be like. She was obviously very used to having students shadow her. The other doctor was a pediatrician. He was younger and only graduated from residency like 2 years previously I believe. I think in his case he just could pretty clearly remember what shadowing was like and he made an effort to make me feel really comfortable in his practice.

My personality is kinda laid back and both those doctors were kinda laid back so things worked out pretty well. If you had a bad experience with one doctor, go find another doctor. Like I said, I had a bad first experience but by looking around I had many awesome experiences with the third and fourth doctors I shadowed.

 

[ISUBird100]

I shadowed a cardiologist last year; was not impressed with her at all. She had a very apathetic and lethargic personality. Whenever we would start talking, I noticed that she could not look me in the eye, and she would always mumble real softly.

She wouldn't introduce me to the patients, either. So I basically stood there with my thumb up my tukas while she talked to them. She would always pawn me off to other employees to the hospital; once to a PA, and the other to an ultrasound technologist.

That was my first shadowing experience. Hopefully next time I can find a better doctor!

 

[Iliketoytles]

I shadowed an ophthalmologist... and he was incredible. I spent 2 weeks with him and he allowed me to shadow him the entire day (from 9-5pm). He always made sure I saw everything in the clinic, and introduced me to his patients, and we discussed philosophies of medicine and patient care a lot. Part of what made him great is that we share a lot of similar interests... like teaching and serving the community. He always spent time educating his patients on stuff, and his patients really praised him for it (as did I).

He also let me use the slit lamp on all his patients after he used it and explained things to look for, etc. The patients were really cooperative as well.

But as a student, the best thing about him was how he really took me under his wing and went out of his way to show me things and to teach me how he thinks. That's the most important quality to have in a mentor. So yes... most important quality of the doctor you shadow is that he TEACHES, not just shows.

 

[Isoprop]

I shadowed in the EM. The attending told me to hang with the residents and med students. It was awesome. They basically treated me like a med student.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

Thanks a lot, everyone, for sharing your "bad" experiences!

You're all making me jealous, and making me realize that I need to find a new doctor to shadow, preferably in a hospital.

 

[UTsksk]

Thanks a lot, everyone, for sharing your "bad" experiences!

You're all making me jealous, and making me realize that I need to find a new doctor to shadow, preferably in a hospital.

I'll tell you about my "bad" experiences too 🙂

I shadowed two doctors (cardio and ENT). Both were great docs and very well known and respected in the community. I think out of the 2 years of shadowing I've done, I've only been excluded on 1 patient and it was because I said it would be inappropriate for me to be there since it was a teenage girl and she had to show the ENT a private area due to a boil (I didn't want to make her any more uncomfortable than what she already was, I'm a 24 yr old male)...anyways besides that both docs took time between their patient visits to discuss to me what I thought about the patient and if I had any questions. We even talked about alot of random stuff as well. One thing that helped is that I'm for the most part bilingual and the cardiologist wasn't very fluent so I was his unofficial translator.

As far as your situation, you may need to find another doctor, but then again if you feel you are getting enough of the "doctor experience" and hopefully a decent LOR then stick with it. Hopefully your experiences change for the better since shadowing should be an enjoyable experience.

 

[docmayer]

I've shadowed a radiologist, and I must say I was getting put to sleep. It wasn't necessarily discouraging as the physician really tried to engage me etc. but I did learn that radiology is definitely not my thing. The first doctor I shadowed was a family physician, and I was a little discouraged with it as there really wasn't anything too exciting nor was it as interesting as I had thought. Going from patient to patient and requesting that they get certain tests done isn't the most interesting thing in the world but you get some patient experience which is always useful.

 

[tryp]

If it makes you feel any better, I never found anyone to shadow at all as a pre-med.

Even as a med student, when I am observing with a doctor there are a decent number of patients who don't want me around. Fair enough, I say. Sometimes people just need to be alone with their doctors and I am glad that my preceptors honour that. I never find out before hand either - I just walk in there and then have to slink guiltily back out 😛

 

[jasin]

I've never met any pre-med students who did shadowing or even knew what shadowing is and I have met a lot of fellow pre-meds while an undergrad.

 

[jasin]

A lot of people on here recommend shadowing but how does it actually increase your chances of getting into medical school?

 

[Iliketoytles]

I've never met any pre-med students who did shadowing or even knew what shadowing is and I have met a lot of fellow pre-meds while an undergrad.

Well most people don't really publicize that they are shadowing to their friends... they just do it.

A lot of people on here recommend shadowing but how does it actually increase your chances of getting into medical school?

Basically, it's an easy way to get a great LOR from a physician.

Also, the idea of following a physician around, seeing what he does, how he interacts with his patients and staff, and just overall observing the ins and outs of actually PRACTICING medicine, seems like the logical thing to do before going into the profession. It's one thing to watch doctors be doctors (like in clinical volunteering), but it's another to have a doctor teach to you why he does what he does with you having the ability to ask questions afterward.

Especially if you have a great doctor to shadow, you can learn a lot more about the profession and the proper philosophies of medicine than you would doing regular clinical volunteer work. This isn't always true though.


---EDIT: Just realized I didn't actually answer your question. I would think shadowing is something medschools look for these days, simply because of how it benefits their potential med students. Usually just dipping your toe in the water is good enough for schools.

 

[AgDoc84]

It seems like I have been shadowing in one way or another since I was about 15. I have shadowed MDs DOs and FNPs at one time or another.

When I got my head straight and decided it was time for me to go to medical school, I started looking around for new people to shadow and update my experience some. I was looking in the greater DFW metroplex and for nearly a year found nobody that was willing to even entertain the idea or that was willing to do more than two hours.

Finally I contacted the State Osteopathic Board and got a list of DOs in Texas that had expressed an interest in having students. Of about 50 within 100 miles of me two responded to my request. I ended up having one of the very best experiences of my life.

I think the key is having an "interview" with the doctor before hand. If you get the feeling that the doc is too busy for you, they either are, or have no social skills.

Similarly, if the doctor is not used to teaching, sometimes the modest mouse routine on your part will only screw you. You might have to interject your question. Even if it seems like a stupid question to you, it lets the doc know you are interested.

To the person who said that they will never let you touch a patient regardless of your background, Im not sure I agree. I have assisted in procedures, drawn up injections, etc. it all depends on your competency, and how you present yourself to the doctor and the patients.

Finally, especially in family med, you need to follow up on patients. If you had a guy come in in severe low back pain, ask how his MRI went the next time you see the doctor. Family Medicine preaches continuity of care, and if you make it seem like you dont give a flip about what happens with the patients, the doctor is not going to advocate for you.

 

[Loudster]

Finally, especially in family med, you need to follow up on patients. If you had a guy come in in severe low back pain, ask how his MRI went the next time you see the doctor. Family Medicine preaches continuity of care, and if you make it seem like you dont give a flip about what happens with the patients, the doctor is not going to advocate for you.

That's really awesome advice. The doctors I shadowed were also impressed when I would come back a week later and ask, "How did so-and-so's test/procedure/whatever go?" It caught them off-guard, especially if I could remember the patients name.

 

[lacrosse87]

I've never met any pre-med students who did shadowing or even knew what shadowing is and I have met a lot of fellow pre-meds while an undergrad.

Although I knew some people who shadowed docs, I never did or felt the desire to. I just felt like there were better things to do with my time. Also felt like doing it "just for AACOMAS" would be dumb. Worked for me, accepted

Granted, now that I kinda have a specific area of medicine that has been interesting me, I would love to shadow a doc in that specialty. Actually, now that I just typed that out, I'd rather do some clinical research in that specialty instead of shadowing. I guess everything has an opportunity cost & only so many hours in the day

 

[cabinbuilder]

Shadowing experiences or rotations, etc that we all go through are not always the greatest experience.

I had great rotations in med school and really terrible ones. Same with residency where you just want the month to be over and hope that the next month will be an improvement.

I always looked at the really bad, boring rotations as an opportunity to learn how NOT to be. Figure out why that rotation is so bad, why the doctor is aloof, why you hate it, etc.

Is it just a subject you really don't like, or is it the physician, or the location, the hours, the staff, the admin, the types of patients, etc????

If every experience was rockin' awesome and every doctor the best person to be with then you would have a super hard time narrowing what part of medicine suits you.

I agree with the others. If one experience just didn't work for you, then find another. Don't let one bad experience kill your dream. We all have been there.

 

[jasin]

Well most people don't really publicize that they are shadowing to their friends... they just do it.



Basically, it's an easy way to get a great LOR from a physician.
.

That's cool, but I never needed to shadow to get LORs.

 

[MedPR]

Well when I shadowed my two physicians, both acted in the same way (to one another, not to your doctor). They would walk with me down to the patient's room and ask the patient if it was ok for me to sit in. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In the room with the patient, I was merely a fly on the wall so I could listen and see how the doctor-patient relationship worked. Rarely would the doctor's engage me unless it was something that they felt was good to know. However, after each visit the doctors would ask if I had any questions, and we would chat a little about each patient. Nothing mind-blowing or challenging.. just general feelings and opinions.

As far as participating, I highly doubt they would use you in any situation even with medical training because you are not an employee there nor does their insurance cover you. It will be their ass if you did something wrong. As far as her closing you out, I don't know why she would agree to you shadowing her if she didn't want to help you out. Maybe she's just not a people person, or maybe her understanding of you shadowing is just so you can see the day-to-day and write it down on your application.

This is exactly how my shadowing experience went. Sometimes the doctor knew what his patient was here for and simply told me beforehand to sit this one out, presumably because it was an extremely sensitive patient or perhaps the patient had refused to let a student in the room before. I was shadowing a Rheum, and he was kind enough to give me a year old version of a Rheumatology Primer so I would go and read through that in his office while I waited.

Rheum definitely got really boring, same old same old it seemed like. I wouldn't say it was a negative experience, but after a while the monotony got to be too much and I kindly told him I was going to work on other ECs for my application and that I wouldn't be shadowing him any longer. He wrote me a good LOR (I think) and that was that.

 

[Iliketoytles]

That's cool, but I never needed to shadow to get LORs.

Yeah. There are other ways to get a LOR, but shadowing seems to be the typical route for MOST premeds I would say.

 

[CopToEM]

The only thing I have to say is that you shouldn't continue to do anything that isn't enjoyable. No med school in the country would expect you to continue to put yourself in a very unpleasant situation just so you can have shadowing hours for your application. Also, given this physician's attitude toward your presence, you shouldn't expect that they will write you a very good letter of recommendation.

Move on and find something better!

 

[Helen Wheels]

I think out of the 2 years of shadowing I've done, I've only been excluded on 1 patient and it was because I said it would be inappropriate for me to be there since it was a teenage girl and she had to show the ENT a private area due to a boil (I didn't want to make her any more uncomfortable than what she already was, I'm a 24 yr old male)...

This is a little OT, but I am confused as to why would you show a "private area" to an ENT?

 

[petyr_baelish]

This is a little OT, but I am confused as to why would you show a "private area" to an ENT?

This.

😕