Disillusioned?

[JessStarlite]

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I recently interviewed at a fairly well-respected PhD program. The program and my POI seemed to me like a really excellent fit, and my GPA, the level of my undergraduate school, and GRE scores were not just acceptable but WAY above average based on the school's website. When the POI called to invite me to interview, she positively gushed ("I was SO impressed with your application, I'd really LOVE it if you would come interview with us...").

When I visited campus and attended the interview day, I got along really well with all of her grad students, and they seemed positive about my interests, credentials, and experience. At my interview with the POI herself, she once again gushed ("You have a fabulous GPA, you went to a great school, you have terrific experience, I think you'd be a perfect fit! You'll hear from us next week") I e-mailed her a day or two after the interview to thank her, and once again her response was really, really positive. AGAIN, she said, "I think you'd be a terrific fit."

The day she said to expect to hear from her came and went, and I e-mailed a day or two later, very politely, just to check in on the status of things. I got a polite but very distant e-mail back informing me that "we enjoyed meeting you very much and believe you are certainly qualified," but she had already extended invitations to two students (although she said she was going to accept three "if there are three I really like,") and they had accepted.

So, not to put too fine a point on it...WHAT THE HELL?? I know this has happened to others based on a few posts I've seen on here... Why does this happen? Why would anyone--particularly a PSYCHOLOGIST--basically make it sound as if the offer of acceptance is merely a formality, and then turn around and not offer admission?? Moreover, why would she act as if she "really liked me," say she was going to accept three people "If there are three people I really like," and then inform me that she's accepted TWO people?

Once again, I say...WHAT THE HELL?!

I am so, so appallingly disillusioned. I'm going to go crawl into a hole now.

 

[Jezebel09]

I wish I had an answer for you. If I did have the answer, I could become very rich by telling applicants why they were rejected even though the people at the school seemed to really like them.

It is often something intangible. They just feel more comfortable with one applicant over another. And, who knows? Maybe funding for the third student fell through.

 

[hamsterpants]

Also, and this is really hard to do, we have to be careful not to read too much into what people say or do.

Maybe it has to do with being older and going on job interviews, auditions, etc (I used to act), but until someone says "you're accepted", I assume nothing.

I'm sorry though, I know that must feel awful.

 

[zzzz2]

It is also possible that with the next students she met she was even more impressed. Who knows? It definitely hurts though.

 

[Jezebel09]

Also, and this is really hard to do, we have to be careful not to read too much into what people say or do.

QUOTE]

Yep, as many people on this forum have mentioned, just because someone is a psychologist doesn't mean s/he is perfect. We often want to think that they know exactly how to behave in a given situation, and that just isn't always true.

While I agree with you, hamsterpants about how this happens in the working world ALL the time, I have found some of the stories on this forum to be among the most egregious I have heard.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Also, and this is really hard to do, we have to be careful not to read too much into what people say or do.

Maybe it has to do with being older and going on job interviews, auditions, etc (I used to act), but until someone says "you're accepted", I assume nothing.

I'm sorry though, I know that must feel awful.

This is very true. Often times, we hear--at least in part--what we want or hope to hear, especially when it comes to things like body language and intonation.

Also, keep in mind that we as psychologists and psychologists-to-be sometimes get a bit TOO into the "positive reinforcement" mindset. It can take a little while to get used to these types of interactions; someone may sound like they're "gushing" when in actuality that's just his/her polite and supportive voice tone.

Edit: Also, try your best not to let this one incident get you completely bummed. If the professor had such good things to say about you, then odds are you'll come across as equally- or more-desirable to other programs and potential advisers.

 

[cara susanna]

That's why my #1 thing I learned was: don't take anything your POI says about possible admission to heart until you have that actual acceptance in hand. A lot of people have it where they are told they're a shoe-in and then get rejected.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

That's why my #1 thing I learned was: don't take anything your POI says about possible admission to heart until you have that actual acceptance in hand. A lot of people have it where they are told they're a shoe-in and then get rejected.

It is, perhaps unfortunately, a business- (and life-) lesson that must inevitably be learned at some point.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Maybe it has to do with being older and going on job interviews, auditions, etc (I used to act), but until someone says "you're accepted", I assume nothing.

Yes.

It isn't done and until you have a signed offer in hand. It won't be the last time you feel like you had a job, and then you don't. I've seen cases where people were hired to teach a course, had to fill out paperwork to get an e-mail account setup, get a sample syllabus, etc....only to find out the position didn't get funded because of a late budget cut. It happens in most every profession.

 

[Kat 22]

Something similar happened to me at my first interview. My POI was so happy to meet with me, and went on and on about how impressed she was with me. We talked for hours (literally 3 hours). She took me to meet her students who I had lunch with, and she even introduced me to her colleague who "we will be working with next year" (her words, not mine). I was stoked, I thought she was fantastic and I was sure I'd get accepted. A few weeks later I got in touch with her to check the status of my application, and she told me that it was with a somewhat heavy heart that she had selected someone else. She was very nice, but I was heart broken.

Now, I've accepted at a school I truly believe is a better fit, and I couldn't be happier. The one thing someone told me through the process was that you want to go to a place that wants you because that's where you'll be happiest.

 

[Blue86]

I recently interviewed at a fairly well-respected PhD program. The program and my POI seemed to me like a really excellent fit, and my GPA, the level of my undergraduate school, and GRE scores were not just acceptable but WAY above average based on the school's website. When the POI called to invite me to interview, she positively gushed ("I was SO impressed with your application, I'd really LOVE it if you would come interview with us...").

When I visited campus and attended the interview day, I got along really well with all of her grad students, and they seemed positive about my interests, credentials, and experience. At my interview with the POI herself, she once again gushed ("You have a fabulous GPA, you went to a great school, you have terrific experience, I think you'd be a perfect fit! You'll hear from us next week") I e-mailed her a day or two after the interview to thank her, and once again her response was really, really positive. AGAIN, she said, "I think you'd be a terrific fit."

The day she said to expect to hear from her came and went, and I e-mailed a day or two later, very politely, just to check in on the status of things. I got a polite but very distant e-mail back informing me that "we enjoyed meeting you very much and believe you are certainly qualified," but she had already extended invitations to two students (although she said she was going to accept three "if there are three I really like,") and they had accepted.

So, not to put too fine a point on it...WHAT THE HELL?? I know this has happened to others based on a few posts I've seen on here... Why does this happen? Why would anyone--particularly a PSYCHOLOGIST--basically make it sound as if the offer of acceptance is merely a formality, and then turn around and not offer admission?? Moreover, why would she act as if she "really liked me," say she was going to accept three people "If there are three people I really like," and then inform me that she's accepted TWO people?

Once again, I say...WHAT THE HELL?!

I am so, so appallingly disillusioned. I'm going to go crawl into a hole now.

A very very similar thing happened to me. I was so mad 😡
I mean, it's worse when they say you'd be a terrific/fantastic grad student in their program then when they just reject you after a so-so interview.
But as someone said before, it's better to know these things know.. who knows, maybe you wouldn't have liked them so much after you got to know them. Going where the professors/program really want you is the best thing in the long run. Good luck!

 

[PrisonPsych]

I've had this happen at multiple places. It sucks.

 

[deleted176373]

Good news: you're not alone.

Bad news: This happens all the time, if left me scratching my head a few times.

I think my most memorable interview had to be one where we spent the day touring facilities and driving around with no 1 on 1 interview time and no serious interview. Then... at the after party, the faculty member decided to host potential graduate student death match. She had each of us there with beers in hand answering questions at the party... Nice touch. 🙂 Both of us did well but the other potential student was honestly a much better match to the program. Later during the party, she sent a graduate student to fetch the other student since we had been hanging out together all night... Offer made, party over.

You'll find that all sorts of messed up things happen at interviews.

Mark

 

[futureapppsy2]

That's why my #1 thing I learned was: don't take anything your POI says about possible admission to heart until you have that actual acceptance in hand. A lot of people have it where they are told they're a shoe-in and then get rejected.

+1 (million or so)

 

[kapinkkidowski]

This happened to me several times last year. I learned like so many others have said, not to take ANYTHING a POI tells me seriously until I get that offer. I still dont understand why they do that. Its devastating, really; I started feeling like there was something wrong with me, bc I had a bunch of interviews, great feedback, but maybe I was just not that likeable, you know? But after having read on here how many times its happened to others, I just think that these professors are not good interviewers, and actually dohave a lot of qualified people that they genuinely like. I literally have had people tell me, "I want you in my lab, what can I do to get you to come here?" Only to not get an acceptance later on.

This year I just smiled at all that gushing and walked out of there thinking I guess probably she liked me...as a person. Nothing else. I would be perfect for thier lab. Sure. Am I the most perfect? Maybe not. As a matter of fact, the places I DID get accepted at I walked out thinking I didnt have a shot bc the professors DIDNT gush at all compared to the ones that ended up not giving me an offer. Go figure.

In any case, I feel for you; it's such a shock when it happens, and I wish you the best, and hope it all works out in the end. 🙂

 

[RejectClinical]

I really think that these POIs are desperate for someone in their lab so maybe they tell this kind of thing to everyone? I had a POI contact me 7 days after I sent in my app and then several times after that telling me I was the top choice......only to not receive an offer. I definitely agree that nothing is certain until you have an offer in hand....luckily, I received an offer from a better school, but still. 👎

 

[PsyDWannabe]

This is just part of the working world.

I've been told, "You're hired." Then called weeks later and asked to interview with someone else, and then non hired.

I've been told, "We'd love to offer the position to you today, but I want you to take a week to think about it. Call me next Thursday and tell me what you've decided." This is after another member of the faculty said, "I think you're a potential superstar in this field." . . . and then not gotten the offer.

I've had positions negotiated in writing that have been approved for funding at the dean level and then yanked. 3 months of negotiation on that one.

Call me naive because I am young but those are just downright terrifying. Especially the "I think you are a potential superstar" scenario. Even though we say, "I have learned, never again will I fall for that crap", its kind of hard not to read meaning into these things people say. I just don't think they realize how much we are banking on every word, nonverbal, inflection, cue they give us. Oh well.........

 

[UnLurked]

I think that professors, much like the rest of us might, sometimes get caught up in the excitement of meeting a new and promising person and forget they have other interviews with people who are also fantastic. I know the first interview I went on I kept thinking that it was the greatest program ever. A couple of interviews later and I was able to put it in perspective (it was a good program but certainly not the greatest). That said, it's still awful to lead you on like that!

In my mind this has been worse this year. Going to interviews I was promised that there would be a number of people at every interview that just didn't fit and were kind of, well, weirdos. I was disappointed at every interview (I wanted a funny interview story) and met only people who were scary qualified. My guess is that all of the people who started preparing when the economy tanked are now applying, which stinks for all of us.

 

[robinsena]

Yes, I think interview days can be tiring and long for professors as well. I am not excusing the behavior of leading applicants on, but I think it is also hard for POIs who have been interviewing students all day to maintain a positive vibe while still interviewing each applicant carefully. And although this may not sound 'nice,' I'm sure POIs want to attract as many applicants as possible so they can have their 'pick of the litter' when it comes to decision-making time.

Sometimes there may be issues with funding. GA/TA slots are sometimes not finalized until after the interview date so it is not always surprising that the number of available slots change for a faculty member. I'm sorry for what applicants have to go through but there are so many other explanations for what happens in a situation like this that I hope applicants don't take this as a personal rejection all the time, or something that is done maliciously.

I think that professors, much like the rest of us might, sometimes get caught up in the excitement of meeting a new and promising person and forget they have other interviews with people who are also fantastic. I know the first interview I went on I kept thinking that it was the greatest program ever. A couple of interviews later and I was able to put it in perspective (it was a good program but certainly not the greatest). That said, it's still awful to lead you on like that!

In my mind this has been worse this year. Going to interviews I was promised that there would be a number of people at every interview that just didn't fit and were kind of, well, weirdos. I was disappointed at every interview (I wanted a funny interview story) and met only people who were scary qualified. My guess is that all of the people who started preparing when the economy tanked are now applying, which stinks for all of us.

 

[jnine]

interesting and insightful perspectives on the behind the scenes of it all....

i know it's been said that "im not letting these people off the hook but they're under pressure/have lots of talented applicants etc/excuses excuses...

when reading these stories, i would really like to call out the professors who make these statements (as discussed above) and say that they're being irresponsible. I think that the people who are doing the hiring/accepting are more than intelligent enough to know that they are possibly letting their mouths write checks that they can't cash. I think they're probably manipulating us in some way. If I should be fortunate enough to be in this kind of position one day, I will be positive and optimistic but honest with people, and I hope that y'all will be too, even though we've been put through emotional roller coaster, and even though these sort of tactics are part of playing the game successfully! 🙄

Well, keep in mind that there are lots of folks involved. In a typical academic job interview, you interview with every faculty member in the department, the dean, and various attached faculty. So, in my "superstar" example, both that guy and the chair (who gave me the call back in a week line and tell them my decision) may have genuinely felt that I was the guy. But, then they talk in committee and someone else wants to go a different direction. . . e.g. someone says, "Well yeah, he's got a great research background, seems brilliant, I can see why you want to hire him, but aren't we looking for someone to alleviate our clinic load? Will this guy want to do that? Are we going to be fighting about it continuously? What if he gets a grant immediately and buys out of clinic responsibilities, we'll just be doing this again in a year. . . . etc. . ." It can definitely be nerve-racking, especially in the moment. You know, well there goes another tier 1 tenure job, I'm going to be homeless. . .



Figure, a similar thing goes on in graduate school programs with respect to which faculty get students, how everyone in the interview day perceived the situation, phone calls from networking sources, and so on.

 

[bmedclinic]

Jess-
Dont crawl into that hole yet. Remember, if you were a good enough applicant to be seriously considered at this school, you're probably in the running at other programs and things will work out.

Even if things dont work out, you'll still be a good enough applicant in the future. A lot of students can never get to where you are right now, so dont fret. It'll work out.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The vast majority of professors want what is best for the applicants and they aren't going to manipulate anything with the purpose of entertainment or to cause someone else problems. There are many moving parts involved in getting a student from application to starting a program. It may "feel" like they are playing mind games, but I'd hazard to guess that many of those professors who said positive things really did mean them, and they may have gotten caught up in the excitement, only to have something snag and not be able to offer the position to you.