Dismissal from medical school

[Lawn Gnome]

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I'm a fourth year medical student with one remaining semester at a major US allopathic school, and it looks like there's a good chance that I'll be dismissed for failing a rotation for a second time, and asking two residents for a script for a non-narcotic sleeping aid. Other rotations have gone well, but pre-clinical is spotty.

If I get dismissed (and I?m getting signals that it?s going this way), is there any way to transfer my credits to another school? Foreign schools would be just fine.

 

[azzarah]

Is there any way you could negotiate with them and take time off to do an mph or something? 🙁
Good luck! I hope everything works out okay!

 

[velo]

I'm a fourth year medical student with one remaining semester at a major US allopathic school, and it looks like there's a good chance that I'll be dismissed for failing a rotation for a second time, and asking two residents for a script for a non-narcotic sleeping aid. Other rotations have gone well, but pre-clinical is spotty.

If I get dismissed (and I?m getting signals that it?s going this way), is there any way to transfer my credits to another school? Foreign schools would be just fine.

whoa, zero posts, just joined, crazy story...

my trolldar is going berzerk over this one...

 

[W222]

Not that I know anything, only an MS1 here, BUT come on. You asked a resident for a script-- anything like that violates many medical schools' honor code. Also, you failed the rotation twice and they are asking you to leave. This sounds a little suspicious and maybe you have other problems that you are not admitting or accepting.

 

[Wrigleyville]

It might be possible, but they would probably want you to do a lot more than your last semester of clinical work to get your degree (Schools don't generally stamp their seal of approval on students who did all their work somewhere else). So you'd probably have to redo most if not all of your clinical rotations.

But it's not like they're going to be beating your door down to get you to come to their school -- you failed a rotation twice, and asked your supervisors for drugs. That isn't exactly the ideal candidate most institutions are looking for.

Maybe you should ask your dean if you can take a year off and get your life in order, and refocus.

 

[doc05]

how could you possibly fail a rotation TWICE??

 

[Doc Ivy]

My question is this: why the sleeping pills? It seems like you've got some issues to work out before you try and deal with transferring credits and such. Were you having emotional problems? Were you just oblivious to the fact that no self-respecting physician is going to write a script without evaluating you first, let alone your own resident???

I don't mean to be harsh, but if your story is true, then in addition to your weak performance on your rotations, your actions showed a lot of immaturity, bad judgement, or at best extreme naivety. You probably need a little bit of time to reflect on that before you graduate, maybe that's all the school wants from you.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Not to be stupid, but I didn't realize that asking a resident for a prescription was such a bad mistake. Not that I thought it was the utmost in professionalism, but I wouldn't have thought that would be included in grounds for dismissal from medical school. Is the assumption that s/he asked for a BZ? Would the situation be any better if s/he had had strep throat and asked for PCN?

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but since I am so clueless I thought that I should ask and learn more about this.

 

[TTSD]

Isn't gnome the same thing as troll? ;-)

Which rotation did you fail, twice?

 

[azzarah]

Have you been to a psychiatrist? You might be depressed or something...

 

[Paws]

Well, I am still in my first semester, first block and I have nightmares I will be asked to leave because I am struggling to get through all my courses ... 😱

But, then I come to my senses and remember that most schools will do anything to help you through your years with them. My school is all over us about, do you need any help? any therapy? any money? any anything?

So, my point is that maybe you can go and speak honestly with your dean, or someone you feel comfortable with or who is the most important, basically, in this situation. It's like when you can't pay a bill, if you just call up the company and tell them that, they will always work with you to get you through it.

You're almost done, can you make an effort to honestly salvage what you've got? If you've done stupid things, brother! fess up to them and go from there.

 

[DrBuzzLightYear]

why is anyone trying to help this guy?? i, for one, am happy the med school is preventing this dildo from practicing medicine.

 

[Lawn Gnome]

Paws, thanks for the encouragment. Rust, thanks for the understanding.

 

[captbadass]

theres no harm in quitting

 

[babyruth]

Not to be stupid, but I didn't realize that asking a resident for a prescription was such a bad mistake. Not that I thought it was the utmost in professionalism, but I wouldn't have thought that would be included in grounds for dismissal from medical school. Is the assumption that s/he asked for a BZ? Would the situation be any better if s/he had had strep throat and asked for PCN?

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but since I am so clueless I thought that I should ask and learn more about this.

I don't think it is taboo, but it is considered medically unprofessional. Eventhough the drug wasn't a narcotic, which would have been totally unethical, s/he should have went to his/her own primary care physician for help. If we were all prescribing for each other, it might end up one big mess.

Furthermore, the resident might have felt uncomfortable prescribing something when they are not sure if that is the problem. If the OP isn't sleeping at night and is doing poorly academically, then perhaps they need therapy, as so many others have said, or an antidepressant...

(Note: BZ are listed as class-IV contolled substances...)

 

[njbmd]

I'm a fourth year medical student with one remaining semester at a major US allopathic school, and it looks like there's a good chance that I'll be dismissed for failing a rotation for a second time, and asking two residents for a script for a non-narcotic sleeping aid. Other rotations have gone well, but pre-clinical is spotty.

If I get dismissed (and I?m getting signals that it?s going this way), is there any way to transfer my credits to another school? Foreign schools would be just fine.

Hi there,
Most medical schools in this country will not accept a student on transfer who is not " in good standing" at their previous medical school. There are some off-shore schools that would not care since you have already completed your pre-clinical stuff. You should look into some of them with the caveat of having to deal with the hassle of trying to into residency in this country once you are done. <major headache>

Try to see if you can negotiate with your school to let you go before you fail your rotation for the second time so that you could try to get a transfer. You might end up repeating third year but you would not have to deal with the FMG issues.

Good luck with getting your "stuff" worked out. It would seem a shame for you to lose all of your hard work up to this point.

njbmd 🙁

 

[LotaPower]

Not to be stupid, but I didn't realize that asking a resident for a prescription was such a bad mistake. Not that I thought it was the utmost in professionalism, but I wouldn't have thought that would be included in grounds for dismissal from medical school. Is the assumption that s/he asked for a BZ? Would the situation be any better if s/he had had strep throat and asked for PCN?

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but since I am so clueless I thought that I should ask and learn more about this.

yea i dont see what the big deal is if the drug was a non narcotic... i've asked my attending for some clarinex for my allergies and he gave me a bunch... he even gave me some samples of celebrex for my back....although i dont know how it works if you asked for a benzo.

dude, how can you fail a 4th year rotation? and twice!?!?? did you just not show up? 4th year is like a vacation and the best thing about 4th year is that there is no shelf for those electives! all you need is a pulse to pass

 

[supercut]

Most people reading this will realize that it's almost impossible to not graduate from med school once you get in. You have to really screw up. I'm not so sure we should be encouraging this poster. Sounds like there's more to the story than is revealed here. If s/he still gets kicked out after exhausting all the appeals allowed, maybe that's not such a bad thing.

And finding a residency position from a foreign medical school after you've explained that you were dismissed from a US school would be pretty difficult. All that would have to be revealed during the residency application process

 

[Lawn Gnome]

I realize that what I did was a huge mistake. I make no excuses. (BTW, it was Ambien).

The rotation was core from 3rd year. I was pretty anxious about the repeat the whole time (hence the need for sleep aids). I almost passed. In fact, it went on my official transcript as a pass, but a bad eval came in 2-3 mos after the rotation was over, and they replaced the passing grade with a failing one.

 

[pharmer]

FYI Ambien is Class IV.

 

[kcrd]

I don't mean to be dense, but I still don't understand what happened to cause you to fail a rotation twice. Were you failing to show up at the hospital, or consistently late? Did you do something inappropriate? I agree with the other posters that there seems to be something else going on here, such as mental health or substance abuse problems, that you should seek help for.

 

[platybat]

YOu think that script request is bad? Holy ****, I had a psych resident for a roommate and I heard her on the phone with a friend (another resident) saying how cool it would be to just try everything they prescribe -- "and, like oh my god, we can totally just prescribe stuff for each other!" I **** you not. She listed some specific meds but I've forgotten them now. I thought it was COMPLETELY unethical but (a) I couldn't quite believe she was serious and (b) Our relationship was SO miserable that I didn't like speaking to her about the kitchen sink let alone her ethical chasms. (In retrospect, I should've spoken to her I suppose, and/or gone up some sort of chain of command, but I already hated being in my apartment on a daily basis, due to our unbearable relationship. I was using all my energy trying to pass courses and convince her to move out of my dream apt. )

Not that a worse thing makes a bad thing good, but I just had to mention this. She was so casual about it that I couldn't quite parse the situation. I hoped maybe she knew I was listening and was doing her own little psych experiment.

I don't think it is taboo, but it is considered medically unprofessional. Eventhough the drug wasn't a narcotic, which would have been totally unethical, s/he should have went to his/her own primary care physician for help. If we were all prescribing for each other, it might end up one big mess.

Furthermore, the resident might have felt uncomfortable prescribing something when they are not sure if that is the problem. If the OP isn't sleeping at night and is doing poorly academically, then perhaps they need therapy, as so many others have said, or an antidepressant...

(Note: BZ are listed as class-IV contolled substances...)

 

[Jeff05]

which rotation did you fail?

 

[Doc Ivy]

I realize that what I did was a huge mistake. I make no excuses. (BTW, it was Ambien).

The rotation was core from 3rd year. I was pretty anxious about the repeat the whole time (hence the need for sleep aids). I almost passed. In fact, it went on my official transcript as a pass, but a bad eval came in 2-3 mos after the rotation was over, and they replaced the passing grade with a failing one.

Not to be too nosy, but it seems as though if anything, attendings tend to forget to turn in evals, so something major must have happened for the resident or attending to be ticked off enough to actually turn in a bad evaluation 3 months later. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I think we're missing some of the story 🙁

 

[zenman]

why is anyone trying to help this guy?? i, for one, am happy the med school is preventing this dildo from practicing medicine.

He deserves the same fairness as all the other dip****s that have graduated.

 

[Charlotte York]

If I were in this situation, I would be in contact with a lawyer. If the OP does have some sort of emotional problem or even if the person is addicted to sleeping aids, which is does not seem like they are, they should be able to go to rehabilition and then return to medical school. Many doctors become addicted to various medications and go to rehab and return to practice. I don't see why it should be any different for a medical student.

Don't know anything about the policy on failing 2 rotations though.

 

[robretpd]

I'm a fourth year medical student with one remaining semester at a major US allopathic school, and it looks like there's a good chance that I'll be dismissed for failing a rotation for a second time, and asking two residents for a script for a non-narcotic sleeping aid. Other rotations have gone well, but pre-clinical is spotty.

If I get dismissed (and I?m getting signals that it?s going this way), is there any way to transfer my credits to another school? Foreign schools would be just fine.[/Q


Has anyone ever thought that the reason medical malpractice insurance rates are so high are individuals practicing medicine who shouldn't? Maybe you should get your life together and consider a new profession where you can not destroy anothers life.

 

[vigils]

Not to be too nosy, but it seems as though if anything, attendings tend to forget to turn in evals, so something major must have happened for the resident or attending to be ticked off enough to actually turn in a bad evaluation 3 months later. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I think we're missing some of the story 🙁

You should petition your grade to be changed back to the pass. It sounds impossible, but you can change grades at most institutions through an appeals process. But the bottom line is you need to get things take car of, just don't ignore the problem or you will fail.

 

[Charlotte York]

Has anyone ever thought that the reason medical malpractice insurance rates are so high are individuals practicing medicine who shouldn't? Maybe you should get your life together and consider a new profession where you can not destroy anothers life.

Give me a break. That is not the reason malpractice rates are so high. The OP made a mistake regarding himself, not a patient.

 

[robretpd]

Give me a break. That is not the reason malpractice rates are so high. The OP made a mistake regarding himself, not a patient.

You miss the point. This is an individual who is unable to pass rotation, and is being dismissed due to his inability to complete medical school competently, and is also apparently having emotional problems involving the use of at least ambian. He/she is a disaster waiting to happen in his treatment and care of others. The reason malpractice rates are so high is beacuse we dont weed out people like that, and the preofession tends to protect, hide and make excuses.

 

[utlonghorn50]

that is one of the craziest stories I have heard

 

[ajnak182]

You miss the point. This is an individual who is unable to pass rotation, and is being dismissed due to his inability to complete medical school competently, and is also apparently having emotional problems involving the use of at least ambian. He/she is a disaster waiting to happen in his treatment and care of others. The reason malpractice rates are so high is beacuse we dont weed out people like that, and the preofession tends to protect, hide and make excuses.

If you're going to be making such extreme comments, you better be damn sure you know the ins and outs of the story, bar none. You're talking about someone's livelyhood here, chill out before you go spouting off to high heaven about who should and shouldn't be dismissed from school. On your behalf, your comments may very well be correct, but you're making some serious assumptions that should not be made considering the gravity of your comments. If you know the entire story, spout away, but I doubt you do, so can it.

AJ

 

[doc05]

I still don't understand how you can fail a rotation TWICE. What rotation was it? And to fail because of a bad evaluation?? What awful things did you do?

 

[robretpd]

If you're going to be making such extreme comments, you better be damn sure you know the ins and outs of the story, bar none. You're talking about someone's livelyhood here, chill out before you go spouting off to high heaven about who should and shouldn't be dismissed from school. On your behalf, your comments may very well be correct, but you're making some serious assumptions that should not be made considering the gravity of your comments. If you know the entire story, spout away, but I doubt you do, so can it.

AJ

You are right that we dont know all the facts, but thta is because he/she is not giving them. Like how do you fail a rotation twice. What was the bad evaluation for? Not surprisingly, he/she has not disclosed all the facts. I am not against this person practicing medicine. But they should be receiving help for any problems they may have and be truthful with themselves on why they have those problems and have also failed rotation twice. When that is considered maybe they should get another chance. They would not fail out for no reason.

 

[Megalofyia]

I don't understand what is SOOOO bad about asking for ambian. I know plenty of doctors to use it; I used to work in a pharmacy. I don't see how that alone is indicative of him having emotional problems. I imagine medical school in general is pretty stressful and this must be compounded when you think you are going to fail a rotation. I would have had trouble sleeping if I were in that situation, especially as benadryl completely wakes me up.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

I don't understand what is SOOOO bad about asking for ambian.

I think what's shady is that he didn't ask his doctor, but rather a colleague. And the first one said no, apparently, so he asked another colleague.

 

[ajnak182]

You are right that we dont know all the facts, but thta is because he/she is not giving them. Like how do you fail a rotation twice. What was the bad evaluation for? Not surprisingly, he/she has not disclosed all the facts. I am not against this person practicing medicine. But they should be receiving help for any problems they may have and be truthful with themselves on why they have those problems and have also failed rotation twice. When that is considered maybe they should get another chance. They would not fail out for no reason.

I respect your point and opinion and agree with it, to a certain degree. The main thing I am frustrated with is your rude, belligerent, flaming responses to an honest post about a pretty sensitive issue. Bottom line, it sounds like the OP has some issues that he needs to sort out before he continues on with his medical education. Whether or not he should become a doctor, in my opinion, is not really a judgment that can be made on some internet website.

AJ

 

[robretpd]

I respect your point and opinion and agree with it, to a certain degree. The main thing I am frustrated with is your rude, belligerent, flaming responses to an honest post about a pretty sensitive issue. Bottom line, it sounds like the OP has some issues that he needs to sort out before he continues on with his medical education. Whether or not he should become a doctor, in my opinion, is not really a judgment that can be made on some internet website.

AJ

My post certainly was not meant to be rude or beligerant. Maybe tuff love. There are certain concerns with the bhavior bur in his/her defense, they went through three years apparently without incident. They need to look in the mirror and refocus before they endeavor into treating others.

 

[8744]

Hell, you have to work hard to fail a third year rotation even once, not to mention twice. I don't believe anybody at my school has failed a rotation in the last five years except for one of the third years who decided not to attend.

 

[Apollyon]

Hell, you have to work hard to fail a third year rotation even once, not to mention twice. I don't believe anybody at my school has failed a rotation in the last five years except for one of the third years who decided not to attend.

Exactly - the one guy who did this in my cores (we were at a pretty cushy hospital in our group), had to redo a month of surgery (since he wasn't totally absent, but his attendance looked like Swiss cheese).

About the Rx - it had to have been something if a resident reported it - either the hospital is FULL of pricks, or this person asked multiple people, the same person multiple times, or was a raging dingus about it - some way to make it on the radar.

 

[AF_PedsBoy]

Ha ha yeah, I had a classmate who cut 3/4 of the REQUIRED lecture (and this is a lecture with exactly three students in it, so it's pretty damn obvious) and still passed the rotation. And another one in second year who was actually caught cheating on tests and they decided to let her repeat the year (until she decided to "transfer" to whatever other school would accept a known cheater).

On the other hand, I myself failed my ambulatory medicine rotation because I did it at a VA where my day consisted of watching the attending sit in a cubicle and renew prescriptions. I roused myself off my butt a few times to see the patient first but it so obviously made no impact whatsoever that I eventually gave up. After a whole month of her telling me I was "doing fine" I found out three months later she'd failed me. But two weeks at the end of my third year, one mental f- you to the attending and here I am, a mighty fourth year! The moral being (aside from some personal griping) is that if you make a mistake fix it and move on. And that includes if someone else screws you. Fix it, move on, and think about putting crazy glue in their car door locks some dark night...

 

[PharMed2016]

I realize that what I did was a huge mistake. I make no excuses. (BTW, it was Ambien).

I was wondering why the residents reported you. Hypothetically, if I was a resident and you were asking me for a non-controlled sleep aid, I probably wouldn't have given it to you but I certainly wouldn't report you. Ambien though is controlled and something that is quite reportable. There is probably more to the story than what we are hearing as mentioned by various other individuals above.

 

[username456789]

I was wondering why the residents reported you. Hypothetically, if I was a resident and you were asking me for a non-controlled sleep aid, I probably wouldn't have given it to you but I certainly wouldn't report you. Ambien though is controlled and something that is quite reportable. There is probably more to the story than what we are hearing as mentioned by various other individuals above.

Surely you read in your History books about the great hydroxyzine prohibition of the early 2000s, no?

 

[Apoplexy__]

I was wondering why the residents reported you. Hypothetically, if I was a resident and you were asking me for a non-controlled sleep aid, I probably wouldn't have given it to you but I certainly wouldn't report you. Ambien though is controlled and something that is quite reportable. There is probably more to the story than what we are hearing as mentioned by various other individuals above.

You're talking to someone who was last on the forums 4 years ago, regarding an event that happened over 10 years ago hahaha

 

[PharMed2016]

You're talking to someone who was last on the forums 4 years ago, regarding an event that happened over 10 years ago hahaha

Silly me. Must have been taking some of what that guy took when browsing threads.

 

[PikminOC]

I realize that what I did was a huge mistake. I make no excuses. (BTW, it was Ambien).

The rotation was core from 3rd year. I was pretty anxious about the repeat the whole time (hence the need for sleep aids). I almost passed. In fact, it went on my official transcript as a pass, but a bad eval came in 2-3 mos after the rotation was over, and they replaced the passing grade with a failing one.

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