dismissed DO student

[hopeful maybe naive]

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Hello Everyone,

I was recently dismissed from a DO school after failing 5 courses by a very marginal amount. I know that I had a knowledge gap as a humanities major, and I just didn't know how to study for multiple science courses at once. In undergrad, I spread my required science courses so that I only took 1 per semester, max 2. Then came medical school and I was just extremely unprepared.

My school recommended that I take undergraduate science courses in areas that I failed as well as do some self studying. If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.

I think I am finally getting the grasp of how to study for medical school. The problem was when I had it figured out, it was too late. Sure I was getting high 70s and low 80s, but it was just not enough to salvage my grades.

I've been doing some soul searching and I am positive medicine is what I want to do. I am trying to prepare myself so that this never happens again. I would really appreciate insight, success stories, etc.

I am determined that this will be the only bump in my medical school career. However, I acknowledge that it was pretty messy. I didnt just fail by one or two, I failed by 5. I am wondering if anyone has insight on if I pretty much destroyed my chances for everything other than family medicine. Are my doors for other less competitive specialties (psych, pm&r), closed?

Thanks

 

[Osminog]

If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.

How do you know that?

 

[Moose A Moose]

If and when you're reinstated- and if and when you pass your boards and graduate- you will face an uphill battle garnering entrance into competitive specialties (albeit not impossible). Your best bet for the time being is to continue honing your academic skills over the course of a year or so - take a couple upper elective science classes at a local university.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hello Everyone,

I was recently dismissed from a DO school after failing 5 courses by a very marginal amount. I know that I had a knowledge gap as a humanities major, and I just didn't know how to study for multiple science courses at once. In undergrad, I spread my required science courses so that I only took 1 per semester, max 2. Then came medical school and I was just extremely unprepared.

My school recommended that I take undergraduate science courses in areas that I failed as well as do some self studying. If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.

I think I am finally getting the grasp of how to study for medical school. The problem was when I had it figured out, it was too late. Sure I was getting high 70s and low 80s, but it was just not enough to salvage my grades.

I've been doing some soul searching and I am positive medicine is what I want to do. I am trying to prepare myself so that this never happens again. I would really appreciate insight, success stories, etc.

I am determined that this will be the only bump in my medical school career. However, I acknowledge that it was pretty messy. I didnt just fail by one or two, I failed by 5. I am wondering if anyone has insight on if I pretty much destroyed my chances for everything other than family medicine. Are my doors for other less competitive specialties (psych, pm&r, maybe radiology), closed?

Thanks

One of these is not like the others. I am going to go on a limb and say that if you get back in radiology is pretty much off limits. But there was a thread a few years ago about a guy who was dismissed got back in and matched, I believe EM (maybe @hallowmann can correct). So you know 'anythings possible' just not likely. If your not okay with FM, I would consider doing something else rather than going through the process of getting back in and suffering through med school to just be forced to scramble/SOAP.

 

[deleted480308]

Dude/ma’am.....

You just got kicked out of school. Competitive specialties aren’t really the topic for you. It’s can you take an undergrad science load and pass, and will the school take you back, and then can you pass med school classes, and pass boards.....

I’d use every student studyig resource your school has....you just might still salvage this if you get yourself sorted

 

[Goro]

Hello Everyone,

I was recently dismissed from a DO school after failing 5 courses by a very marginal amount. I know that I had a knowledge gap as a humanities major, and I just didn't know how to study for multiple science courses at once. In undergrad, I spread my required science courses so that I only took 1 per semester, max 2. Then came medical school and I was just extremely unprepared.

My school recommended that I take undergraduate science courses in areas that I failed as well as do some self studying. If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.

I think I am finally getting the grasp of how to study for medical school. The problem was when I had it figured out, it was too late. Sure I was getting high 70s and low 80s, but it was just not enough to salvage my grades.

I've been doing some soul searching and I am positive medicine is what I want to do. I am trying to prepare myself so that this never happens again. I would really appreciate insight, success stories, etc.

I am determined that this will be the only bump in my medical school career. However, I acknowledge that it was pretty messy. I didnt just fail by one or two, I failed by 5. I am wondering if anyone has insight on if I pretty much destroyed my chances for everything other than family medicine. Are my doors for other less competitive specialties (psych, pm&r, maybe radiology), closed?

Thanks

Very sorry to hear of your woes, but you must lose this mindset....whether you failed by one point, or 50, you failed to display even a minimal amount of competency, much less mastery, of the material.

I wish you well, but always have a Plan B.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

Dude/ma’am.....

You just got kicked out of school. Competitive specialties aren’t really the topic for you. It’s can you take an undergrad science load and pass, and will the school take you back, and then can you pass med school classes, and pass boards.....

I’d use every student studyig resource your school has....you just might still salvage this if you get yourself sorted

Thank you for your input. Would you consider psych or pm&r as competitive though? I have worked in a psych clinic for two years so I came into med school with an interest in that. I am not against FM at all, but I am wondering if other doors are closed.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

One of these is not like the others. I am going to go on a limb and say that if you get back in radiology is pretty much off limits. But there was a thread a few years ago about a guy who was dismissed got back in and matched, I believe EM (maybe @hallowmann can correct). So you know 'anythings possible' just not likely. If your not okay with FM, I would consider doing something else rather than going through the process of getting back in and suffering through med school to just be forced to scramble/SOAP.

Do you think its possible that I am forced into scramble/SOAP even if I elect FM with average board scores due to this dismissal?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Do you think its possible that I am forced into scramble/SOAP even if I elect FM with average board scores due to this dismissal?

I was referring to what I thought would probably happen if you tried to do something competitive like Rads. Psych is an interesting field, they might not care as much about the failures. A lot of this will be on you tho to network. And average board scores are no guarantee. You got a long way to go to get even a shot at those.

Past performance may not be a guarantee of future results, but I would say its a lot better predictor than anything else. You are probably going to struggle even if you get back in. I am not telling you its hopeless, just that you need to be okay with getting 'pigeon-holed' into FM, especially 6-7 years in the future when your match would actually occur. Its gonna be tighter than it is now.

If your not okay with the very real possibility of only having non-competitive primary care programs as an option, you shouldn't do this track. If working your butt off just to end up in middle-of-nowhere community FM is okay because you can't imagine doing anything but medicine; than I say go for it. Otherwise consider the difficulty of the path you are looking at.

 

[DokterMom]

The students who have successful come back stories are the ones who:

1. make a detailed and comprehensive plan to address their deficiencies,
   
2. execute according to plan, and
   
3. don't try to take any short cuts or return before they are completely ready

Do this and you should be able to succeed and match into a less-competitive specialty which psych still is

 

[hallowmann]

One of these is not like the others. I am going to go on a limb and say that if you get back in radiology is pretty much off limits. But there was a thread a few years ago about a guy who was dismissed got back in and matched, I believe EM (maybe @hallowmann can correct). So you know 'anythings possible' just not likely. If your not okay with FM, I would consider doing something else rather than going through the process of getting back in and suffering through med school to just be forced to scramble/SOAP.

You talking about Bones? Here's the famous thread: Failed out of DO program, trying to get back in. He applied EM, but then scrambled into FM with a plan to do a fellowship and work in a rural ED. Not sure what happened to him, but he should be an attending or finishing up an FM fellowship in ED right now.

For OP, I'd expect a tough battle to get back into school, pass boards, and place into a residency. I would not expect much more than FM, and in all honesty I wouldn't expect the luxury of being picky on where. You might be able to pick location depending on many factors, but don't expect to be able to with a previous dismissal.

 

[DokterMom]

Bones is an inspiration. That's exactly what you need to do, and if you're able to apply yourself as painstakingly and persistently as Bones did, you'll be OK. Remember - no shortcuts.

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

Sounds like you're putting too many carts before the horse.

Think carefully if med school is really the right pathway for you at this point. You're already on the hook for one year of student loans, so factor in the cost of undergrad classes to even get you back in, and then an enormous debt load if you manage to finish med school and discover like many others that "my heart is not in medicine".

 

[ProfAnon]

Hello Everyone,



My school recommended that I take undergraduate science courses in areas that I failed as well as do some self studying. If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.


Thanks

Who told you that you would "most likely be reinstated"? Sometimes people have a habit of hearing what they want to hear, and unless you have some particular connections or the school has some sort of vested interest in you, why would they roll the dice on you twice? Every single DO school in the country is getting thousands of applications, it just doesn't make sense for them to fill a seat with a student who has already failed out once.

I'm telling you this, not to crush your dreams, but to help you with your plans. It is extremely rare for a student who has failed out that badly to be reinstated. I have seen it a total of one time, and this student completed a fairly intense masters degree with excellent grades, and even then they struggled when they got back and failed the boards the first time. Whatever plans you make to further study should have a solid "Plan B" in place as to what you will do if you don't get back in.

And if your school is genuinely interested in taking you back, I would absolutely run your plan by them and get their input. This will be a good test to see if they really want you back or may have said something you took the wrong way that made you more optimistic than you should be.

 

[sab3156]

You failed 5 classes. You're probably going to fail boards, or close to it. It is not a good financial decision to continue, in my opinion. One class failed, OK... but 5? It is OK to choose a different path.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

Who told you that you would "most likely be reinstated"? Sometimes people have a habit of hearing what they want to hear, and unless you have some particular connections or the school has some sort of vested interest in you, why would they roll the dice on you twice? Every single DO school in the country is getting thousands of applications, it just doesn't make sense for them to fill a seat with a student who has already failed out once.

I'm telling you this, not to crush your dreams, but to help you with your plans. It is extremely rare for a student who has failed out that badly to be reinstated. I have seen it a total of one time, and this student completed a fairly intense masters degree with excellent grades, and even then they struggled when they got back and failed the boards the first time. Whatever plans you make to further study should have a solid "Plan B" in place as to what you will do if you don't get back in.

And if your school is genuinely interested in taking you back, I would absolutely run your plan by them and get their input. This will be a good test to see if they really want you back or may have said something you took the wrong way that made you more optimistic than you should be.

I appreciate your concern. I guess I did not explain fully. I met with admin shorty after I was dismissed and I was told to take undergraduate courses + self- studying. If I were to do well, I would most likely be reinstated. This is according to them.

I definitely have a plan B.

 

[radian313]

I appreciate your concern. I guess I did not explain fully. I met with admin shorty after I was dismissed and I was told to take undergraduate courses + self- studying. If I were to do well, I would most likely be reinstated. This is according to them.

I definitely have a plan B.

I am ofcourse happy for you when and if you get reinstated. I hope you do, however, I will say this, with the upcoming merger in 2020, and DOs having to compete more head on with MDs, Ive noticed that talking to my friends, many more schools are looking to cut their classes down to market that "100% match rate" on towards or after 2020. Why? Well no one really knows whats going to happen, and if they have anything less than a 90% match rate, well that just tells you the school either isnt competent in their board prep because not everyone passed or didnt do well enough to get their residency, or something else is wrong. For this reason, I think youll see schools being a less forgiving and will want the "cream of the crop" to be taking boards and finishing school. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Goro]

I am ofcourse happy for you when and if you get reinstated. I hope you do, however, I will say this, with the upcoming merger in 2020, and DOs having to compete more head on with MDs, Ive noticed that talking to my friends, many more schools are looking to cut their classes down to market that "100% match rate" on towards or after 2020. Why? Well no one really knows whats going to happen, and if they have anything less than a 90% match rate, well that just tells you the school either isnt competent in their board prep because not everyone passed or didnt do well enough to get their residency, or something else is wrong. For this reason, I think youll see schools being a less forgiving and will want the "cream of the crop" to be taking boards and finishing school. Just my 2 cents.

This is worth considering. In 2017 the supply of MD and DO grads was getting close to that op residency slots. I remember seeing that more people were having trouble matching overall. The IMGs were taking the brunt of this (which is part of a four year decline for them, BTW).

But I was left with the impression after seeing the data that grads with red flags would be the first ones to be in the pool to go unmatched.

IF this becomes a reality, then weaker students will be let go earlier.

 

[W19]

This is worth considering. In 2017 the supply of MD and DO grads was getting close to that op residency slots. I remember seeing that more people were having trouble matching overall. The IMGs were taking the brunt of this (which is part of a four year decline for them, BTW).

But I was left with the impression after seeing the data that grads with red flags would be the first ones to be in the pool to go unmatched.

IF this becomes a reality, then weaker students will be let go earlier.

There are some programs (especially IM) out there that prefer to take an average IMG over a weak AMG (MD or DO)...

 

[68PGunner]

There are some programs (especially IM) out there that prefer to take an average IMG over a weak AMG (MD or DO)...

Not surprisingly considering that passing board during residency is still important. At the end of the day, a PD would rather take a kid with at least average board score over a mediocre DO/MD student who has a 50/50 chance of passing board.

 

[Goro]

There are some programs (especially IM) out there that prefer to take an average IMG over a weak AMG (MD or DO)...

We know that.

 

[deleted831695]

I have faith in OP. I can see how some people could fail five classes by marginal amounts (especially if it's by like <3%) if things didn't swing their way. OP wasn't accepted if there wasn't some proof of capability of handling med school curriculum. Just get reinstated, learn from your mistakes, and be aware this is your last chance.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

I have faith in OP. I can how some people could fail five classes by marginal amounts (especially if it's by like <3%) if things didn't swing their way. OP wasn't accepted if there wasn't some proof of capability of handling med school curriculum. Just get reinstated, learn from your mistakes, and be aware this is your last chance.

Thank you Natural Killer Cell. It's been tough knowing this could have been prevented if I just sought help from the beginning, my problem was that I usually tanked the first exam of every class. I failed 4/5 of these courses by 0.5-2%, but it doesn't even matter, a fail is a fail.

Regardless I learned that were so many things I need to change, it seems like every day since I was dismissed I think of factors that lead to my failure. This is definitely one of the most trying times of my life but even with a plan B set (mph), I believe that medicine is truly my calling.

For now I'm trying to take things one step at a time. I am currently enrolled in 2 undergrad courses, doing great in both, and trying to fit in some self- studying. I am also in contact with academic counselors in order to become a more efficient learner.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

As I ask everyone who does poorly, do you find yourself actually interested in the material? Are you the type who looks at the material is says, well this isn't important for being a doctor? Also how much time are you really dedicating to studying for your tests?

Lets face it. Medical science is give or take science for non-majors except you're being assaulted at it with like a textbook's worth of material in a week. If you're not putting in the time, then you're going to fail. This means no weekends. It means no off week nights. It means no going out and partying. It's you and your new boy/girl/gender neutral whatever friend, microsoft powerpoint and their polyamorous agreeable friend textbook.

And honestly, a big part of it is whether you want it enough. A lot of people don't really want to be doctors or just aren't even remotely interested in it. If this is the case, then it's ok to bail. Hell it's imperative that you honestly bail. This **** is hard and if you don't love it then you're going to regret it. It's absolutely not worth it if you don't love it.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

As I ask everyone who does poorly, do you find yourself actually interested in the material? Are you the type who looks at the material is says, well this isn't important for being a doctor? Also how much time are you really dedicating to studying for your tests?

Lets face it. Medical science is give or take science for non-majors except you're being assaulted at it with like a textbook's worth of material in a week. If you're not putting in the time, then you're going to fail. This means no weekends. It means no off week nights. It means no going out and partying. It's you and your new boy/girl/gender neutral whatever friend, microsoft powerpoint and their polyamorous agreeable friend textbook.

And honestly, a big part of it is whether you want it enough. A lot of people don't really want to be doctors or just aren't even remotely interested in it. If this is the case, then it's ok to bail. Hell it's imperative that you honestly bail. This **** is hard and if you don't love it then you're going to regret it. It's absolutely not worth it if you don't love it.

My issues in medical school go far beyond "loving" the material and "putting in time".

In regards to time management, I've spent all my time and all my weekends studying. I initially did not study the correct way and delayed asking for support. I believe that's largely what hindered my performance.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

My issues in medical school go far beyond "loving" the material and "putting in time".

In regards to time management, I've spent all my time and all my weekends studying. I initially did not study the correct way and delayed asking for support. I believe that's largely what hindered my performance.

Getting snippy with me isn't gonna help you. I told you what is most likely the reality of the matter. It's your choice whether to accept it or to continue living within this contrived excuse you've cooked up. You need to work harder and smarter, end of story.

 

[Giovanotto]

OP, at my medical school, we only take 1 science class at a time every semester. If that wasn't the case, I'd be struggling way more.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I have faith in OP. I can how some people could fail five classes by marginal amounts (especially if it's by like <3%) if things didn't swing their way. OP wasn't accepted if there wasn't some proof of capability of handling med school curriculum. Just get reinstated, learn from your mistakes, and be aware this is your last chance.

While this is true, you can fail by a small margin in many things, it means that the student basically had no strong subjects. If nothing comes easy for you, that makes life a whole lot harder.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Sorry I keep delaying in responding to this thread since I would give a long winded response.

I really hate it when schools giving wishy-washy responses like that, you have no idea if they are try to soften the blow or if they legitimate mean it. If I was in such a situation and they told me this, I would be finding ways to meet with them directly every semester to every year. If they really mean it they would meet with you every time you ask. If they don't, I would take it as a sign of them being not serious about what they said.

The next thing is that taking undergrad courses alone is not going to cut it! It doesn't simulate the intensity that you felt in medical school. It is only when you are backed into a corner that you learn real efficiency. When you take undergraduate courses at around a full load (15 credits) to get those A's, you are going to be lulled into thinking your working smarter when in reality you are working longer and harder. You won't have that same time and luxury if by some miracle you do get back in.

The key to all of this is for you to take an SMP, and kill it. This is the thing that will simulate the conditions of whether you are truly ready for medical school. So first get your credits up to 15 or so and get above a 3.5 (nothing less). When you hit this point you take an SMP and find one that is both fair (lets in the students that pass) and tough (I'm not trolling). If you don't have what it take, let your results of the SMP be a sign medical school is not for you. However, only do this if you really want medicine badly.

And to set the record straight for those of you who don't know BonesDO. This person was dismissed after failing one course at his former medical school, which is ridiculous and almost unheard of at any medical school. So I believe the school that accepted him after the fact saw this was bogus reason to dismiss him.

With your 5 failures OP, I don't believe you are in the same category as Bones. The school you have the best shot with is the school that dismissed you. However, if you do an SMP, and that linked medical school sees the change, you might be lucky and get accepted. However, I don't know what advice to give since this is really unchartered waters for a lot of members on here. For now, just keep improving and then most to the next step afterward.

 

[sab3156]

The key to all of this is for you to take an SMP, and kill it. This is the thing that will simulate the conditions of whether you are truly ready for medical school. So first get your credits up to 15 or so and get above a 3.5 (nothing less). When you hit this point you take an SMP and find one that is both fair (lets in the students that pass) and tough (I'm not trolling). If you don't have what it take, let your results of the SMP be a sign medical school is not for you. However, only do this if you really want medicine badly.

I disagree with this advice, man. Have you taken an SMP? I did. I did the SMP at BUSM. It was hard. Just as hard as medical school, probably... In fact, I find medical school a bit easier, and I am at the notorious KCUMB, which has a reputation for being one of the toughest curriculums out there. OP would fail at the SMP I attended, without a doubt. Maybe you have knowledge of other SMPs which are easier, which makes your post valid, but speaking from my experience, I can say that OP would be lucky to pass the classes at BUSM's SMP... maybe immuno was easier but still, that is just a second semester elective and immuno is an easy subject in general. I got around 3.5 in my SMP and I have a good rank at KCUMB right now... meanwhile, we are talking about someone who basically failed everything in medical school. OP needs to find another career, unfortunately.

And I see people saying that it is just "failing by a small margin", but it was 5 classes... getting a residency is going to be harder than medical school itself was for OP. We haven't even really gone into the subject of COMLEX/USMLE, which is going to be a nightmare for OP.

 

[GypsyHummus]

.

I disagree with this advice, man. Have you taken an SMP? I did. I did the SMP at BUSM. It was hard. Just as hard as medical school, probably... In fact, I find medical school a bit easier, and I am at the notorious KCUMB, which has a reputation for being one of the toughest curriculums out there. OP would fail at the SMP I attended, without a doubt. Maybe you have knowledge of other SMPs which are easier, which makes your post valid, but speaking from my experience, I can say that OP would be lucky to pass the classes at BUSM's SMP... maybe immuno was easier but still, that is just a second semester elective and immuno is an easy subject in general. I got around 3.5 in my SMP and I have a good rank at KCUMB right now... meanwhile, we are talking about someone who basically failed everything in medical school. OP needs to find another career, unfortunately.

And I see people saying that it is just "failing by a small margin", but it was 5 classes... getting a residency is going to be harder than medical school itself was for OP. We haven't even really gone into the subject of COMLEX/USMLE, which is going to be a nightmare for OP.

 

[Prehealth1011]

.

 

[Mass Effect]

You failed 5 classes. You're probably going to fail boards, or close to it. It is not a good financial decision to continue, in my opinion. One class failed, OK... but 5? It is OK to choose a different path.

I failed 3 classes, was dismissed, went before appeals committee, dismissal rescinded, let back in the following year (yes, I took a seat meant for someone else, according to some on this thread). I passed boards first try, kicked ass in clinicals, matched ACGME (without USMLE) in the field I wanted all along (admittedly, not competitive) at a good program, became chief resident, and am about to start fellowship at an Ivy.

Was it easy? NO. Was it doable? Clearly. I'm not the smartest, I don't have the best grades, I don't have the most knowledge. But I'm hard-working, I study a lot (and still don't score the best on exams), I get along with people, I care about my patients, and I always try to do the right thing.

Please don't automatically discourage someone. Tough love should come from family and those close enough to know the poster inside and out. You have no idea if they're capable of success, just as no one knew if I was. Everything I accomplished it was because someone told me I couldn't.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I disagree with this advice, man. Have you taken an SMP? I did. I did the SMP at BUSM. It was hard. Just as hard as medical school, probably... In fact, I find medical school a bit easier, and I am at the notorious KCUMB, which has a reputation for being one of the toughest curriculums out there. OP would fail at the SMP I attended, without a doubt. Maybe you have knowledge of other SMPs which are easier, which makes your post valid, but speaking from my experience, I can say that OP would be lucky to pass the classes at BUSM's SMP... maybe immuno was easier but still, that is just a second semester elective and immuno is an easy subject in general. I got around 3.5 in my SMP and I have a good rank at KCUMB right now... meanwhile, we are talking about someone who basically failed everything in medical school. OP needs to find another career, unfortunately.

And I see people saying that it is just "failing by a small margin", but it was 5 classes... getting a residency is going to be harder than medical school itself was for OP. We haven't even really gone into the subject of COMLEX/USMLE, which is going to be a nightmare for OP.

If that's the case and you felt it was tougher, then all the more reason he should take one. I had friends who went through SMPs that were far tougher than medical school, hence my post. He needs to go to one that either simulates medical school OR is tougher so he know he can handle it. If he wants this badly, he need to go through hell to know he has what it takes.

 

[Goro]

I disagree with this advice, man. Have you taken an SMP? I did. I did the SMP at BUSM. It was hard. Just as hard as medical school, probably... In fact, I find medical school a bit easier, and I am at the notorious KCUMB, which has a reputation for being one of the toughest curriculums out there. OP would fail at the SMP I attended, without a doubt. Maybe you have knowledge of other SMPs which are easier, which makes your post valid, but speaking from my experience, I can say that OP would be lucky to pass the classes at BUSM's SMP... maybe immuno was easier but still, that is just a second semester elective and immuno is an easy subject in general. I got around 3.5 in my SMP and I have a good rank at KCUMB right now... meanwhile, we are talking about someone who basically failed everything in medical school. OP needs to find another career, unfortunately.

And I see people saying that it is just "failing by a small margin", but it was 5 classes... getting a residency is going to be harder than medical school itself was for OP. We haven't even really gone into the subject of COMLEX/USMLE, which is going to be a nightmare for OP.

But that's the whole point...the OP needs to demonstrate that s/he can handle med school. This is the best way of doing so. High risk, but high reward.

Personally, I think OP had his/her chance, and now it's time to move on.

 

[Giovanotto]

If that's the case and you felt it was tougher, then all the more reason he should take one. I had friends who went through SMPs that were far tougher than medical school, hence my post. He needs to go to one that either simulates medical school OR is tougher so he know he can handle it. If he wants this badly, he need to go through hell to know he has what it takes.

Where are these SMPs that are tougher than medical school? The 1 year bridge program at my DO school is significantly easier than our medical school program. I was very surprised to find out that a large number of my DO classmates were a part of that program. I dislike how large of a variability there is between SMPs.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Where are these SMPs that are tougher than medical school? The 1 year bridge program at my DO school is significantly easier than our medical school program. I was very surprised to find out that a large number of my DO classmates were a part of that program. I dislike how large of a variability there is between SMPs.

The one in my home state MD school was tougher, several of my friends thought first year was a vacation and second year a few step short of being at the same level. Yes, there is variability and the problem is that members on here don't realize it. They think all SMPs are tougher or all SMPs are easier than medical school, but it really does vary.

 

[sab3156]

But that's the whole point...the OP needs to demonstrate that s/he can handle med school. This is the best way of doing so. High risk, but high reward.

Personally, I think OP had his/her chance, and now it's time to move on.

True, but I think it is just throwing a lot of money at something that will likely result in failure. I agree that it is time to call it quits, unless OP is truly honest with themselves about being able to turn things around.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hello Everyone,

I was recently dismissed from a DO school after failing 5 courses by a very marginal amount. I know that I had a knowledge gap as a humanities major, and I just didn't know how to study for multiple science courses at once. In undergrad, I spread my required science courses so that I only took 1 per semester, max 2. Then came medical school and I was just extremely unprepared.

My school recommended that I take undergraduate science courses in areas that I failed as well as do some self studying. If I do well, then I most likely will be reinstated.

I think I am finally getting the grasp of how to study for medical school. The problem was when I had it figured out, it was too late. Sure I was getting high 70s and low 80s, but it was just not enough to salvage my grades.

I've been doing some soul searching and I am positive medicine is what I want to do. I am trying to prepare myself so that this never happens again. I would really appreciate insight, success stories, etc.

I am determined that this will be the only bump in my medical school career. However, I acknowledge that it was pretty messy. I didnt just fail by one or two, I failed by 5. I am wondering if anyone has insight on if I pretty much destroyed my chances for everything other than family medicine. Are my doors for other less competitive specialties (psych, pm&r), closed?

Thanks

The Match is getting tighter each year. You're a DO with a repeated year, so while I wouldn't write off specialties just yet, be prepared for the idea of FM/IM/peds if you go back, as your prior performance is not indicative of good board scores moving forward.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

Sorry I keep delaying in responding to this thread since I would give a long winded response.

I really hate it when schools giving wishy-washy responses like that, you have no idea if they are try to soften the blow or if they legitimate mean it. If I was in such a situation and they told me this, I would be finding ways to meet with them directly every semester to every year. If they really mean it they would meet with you every time you ask. If they don't, I would take it as a sign of them being not serious about what they said.

The next thing is that taking undergrad courses alone is not going to cut it! It doesn't simulate the intensity that you felt in medical school. It is only when you are backed into a corner that you learn real efficiency. When you take undergraduate courses at around a full load (15 credits) to get those A's, you are going to be lulled into thinking your working smarter when in reality you are working longer and harder. You won't have that same time and luxury if by some miracle you do get back in.

The key to all of this is for you to take an SMP, and kill it. This is the thing that will simulate the conditions of whether you are truly ready for medical school. So first get your credits up to 15 or so and get above a 3.5 (nothing less). When you hit this point you take an SMP and find one that is both fair (lets in the students that pass) and tough (I'm not trolling). If you don't have what it take, let your results of the SMP be a sign medical school is not for you. However, only do this if you really want medicine badly.

And to set the record straight for those of you who don't know BonesDO. This person was dismissed after failing one course at his former medical school, which is ridiculous and almost unheard of at any medical school. So I believe the school that accepted him after the fact saw this was bogus reason to dismiss him.

With your 5 failures OP, I don't believe you are in the same category as Bones. The school you have the best shot with is the school that dismissed you. However, if you do an SMP, and that linked medical school sees the change, you might be lucky and get accepted. However, I don't know what advice to give since this is really unchartered waters for a lot of members on here. For now, just keep improving and then most to the next step afterward.

Thank you for your time and advice. After getting dismissed in December my first thought was completing an SMP but I couldn't enroll in one in the middle of the year. My current plan is that if I do not get re-instated and repeat this Fall 2018, I will consider an SMP.

I agree that their response was pretty vague which is why I am trying to prepare for the worst possible scenario.

 

[68PGunner]

Where are these SMPs that are tougher than medical school? The 1 year bridge program at my DO school is significantly easier than our medical school program. I was very surprised to find out that a large number of my DO classmates were a part of that program. I dislike how large of a variability there is between SMPs.

SMP at top MD schools will make you cry. But, if you do well in them, you will kill the MCAT and get accepted to a MD somewhere.

 

[hopeful maybe naive]

I failed 3 classes, was dismissed, went before appeals committee, dismissal rescinded, let back in the following year (yes, I took a seat meant for someone else, according to some on this thread). I passed boards first try, kicked ass in clinicals, matched ACGME (without USMLE) in the field I wanted all along (admittedly, not competitive) at a good program, became chief resident, and am about to start fellowship at an Ivy.

Was it easy? NO. Was it doable? Clearly. I'm not the smartest, I don't have the best grades, I don't have the most knowledge. But I'm hard-working, I study a lot (and still don't score the best on exams), I get along with people, I care about my patients, and I always try to do the right thing.

Please don't automatically discourage someone. Tough love should come from family and those close enough to know the poster inside and out. You have no idea if they're capable of success, just as no one knew if I was. Everything I accomplished it was because someone told me I couldn't.

Thank you for your response.

I know it was a while back but I am wondering how you changed your study habits that lead to your success after being dismissed.

During the beginning of the semester I was extremely inflexible with the way I studied. I would spend hours trying to cram all the information and took pages and pages of notes that killed my valuable time. I should have been trying to get the bigger picture, testing myself, and forming questions that I could use as quizzes later. Once I switched to this method my grades started to improve. I am starting to meet with a learning specialist at my school to see how to further change, but any advice from you would be greatly appreciated.

 

[W19]

The Match is getting tighter each year. You're a DO with a repeated year, so while I wouldn't write off specialties just yet, be prepared for the idea of FM/IM/peds if you go back, as your prior performance is not indicative of good board scores moving forward.

Even IM might be a stretch because of the merger...

 

[Mad Jack]

Even IM might be a stretch because of the merger...

Community IM isn't all that hard to get into. I know people with fails and low scores that are getting plenty of interviews on the ACGME side of things, they're just going places most people would rather not be

 

[W19]

Community IM isn't all that hard to get into. I know people with fails and low scores that are getting plenty of interviews on the ACGME side of things, they're just going places most people would rather not be

OP will be applying for the match in 2022. I would not count in IM if I was in OP's situation.

 

[Robin-jay]

I think that medical schools requirements ill prepared the OP to be successful in medical school.

This is why medical schools need to stay focused on accepting science majors.

I hope the OP does get back into medical school. I don't fault him for his lack of science exposure. I think its concerning that many medical schools don't care more about the sciences.

"Lets accept the english major who took a couple science courses a year."

"Lets not accept the bioengineering major that took 5 science courses a semester."

I think the advice here is good. Take an SMP and do well OP. That will show you can do science.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think that medical schools requirements ill prepared the OP to be successful in medical school.

This is why medical schools need to stay focused on accepting science majors.

I hope the OP does get back into medical school. I don't fault him for his lack of science exposure. I think its concerning that many medical schools don't care more about the sciences.

"Lets accept the english major who took a couple science courses a year."

"Lets not accept the bioengineering major that took 5 science courses a semester."

I think the advice here is good. Take an SMP and do well OP. That will show you can do science.

There are plenty of English majors acing med school classes to prove that theory wrong. Being a bioengineering major does not guarantee you'll be a good doctor or even a responsible one. Being on the other side of things, I think what med schools need to start doing is looking for people who actually got out into the world and gained exposure in things outside the classroom rather than ones who went straight through from kindergarten through the MCAT, checking off boxes every step of the way.

 

[Robin-jay]

There are plenty of English majors acing med school classes to prove that theory wrong. Being a bioengineering major does not guarantee you'll be a good doctor or even a responsible one. Being on the other side of things, I think what med schools need to start doing is looking for people who actually got out into the world and gained exposure in things outside the classroom rather than ones who went straight through from kindergarten through the MCAT, checking off boxes every step of the way.

I agree that "real life" accomplishments should be met before medical school. Clinical experience, volunteering, work in general, etc. Anything besides solely academics. Medical schools do "ok" with this, but because academics overshadow this aspect so much, the bare minimum of EC's is still highly acceptable in the med school world.

I'm not saying English majors can't do well in Med. school or that bioengineering students will do phenomenal.

The point I'm trying to get across is that Medical Schools need to remember the foundation of every class they offer, and that's of science. It's entirely logical to believe that a bioengineering major with a similar GPA (or even slightly worse) than a non-science major will do better in medical school. This isn't rocket science.

Medical schools should emphasize science more than they do. It ill prepares students for the medical school curriculum to pretend a non-science degree shows as much competence in science as a science degree. Again, not rocket science.

 

[Mass Effect]

Thank you for your response.

I know it was a while back but I am wondering how you changed your study habits that lead to your success after being dismissed.

During the beginning of the semester I was extremely inflexible with the way I studied. I would spend hours trying to cram all the information and took pages and pages of notes that killed my valuable time. I should have been trying to get the bigger picture, testing myself, and forming questions that I could use as quizzes later. Once I switched to this method my grades started to improve. I am starting to meet with a learning specialist at my school to see how to further change, but any advice from you would be greatly appreciated.

Check your PM.

 

[W19]

@Robin-jay

People with science major might have some advantage at the beginning, but it does not go as far as you might think. For instance, genetics is a 1-wk course in med school, biochem is like 6-8wk course. I can give many other examples. Classes that might take a whole semester in traditional undergrad, med school does not spent a lot of time teaching them. They just glance over them and expect you to do your part. I remember one classmate who has a MPH at a top 10 MPH program told us our 6-7 hrs biostats course was covered during a whole semester in his MPH program.