Dissertation Questions

[clinicalpsyapp]

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Hello,

I am beginning a Clinical Psych PhD program this fall. I just finished a master's program and am able to transfer in many classes, as well as a thesis. This means I get to start on my dissertation right away. I know I could talk to my advisor more about this, as well, but I just wanted to know what to expect from the dissertation process (although I'm sure there's some variation between programs).

Lately, I've been thinking about the process and wondering if I have to put so much time into it, if maybe I could just put a little more time into it and really accomplish something with my dissertation besides just satisfying a requirement. Has anyone ever heard of a PhD candidate publishing a book as their dissertation? That's kind of what I've been thinking and I didn't know if it was a ridiculous goal or not.

Thoughts?

 

[erg923]

Slow down cowboy...dont get over your head. Moreover, a ph,d diss has to be an empirical study, not a large lit review of a topic(s) that many psych books are. The only book I can think of that would be appopriate for diss would be some sort of treatment manual and you likely wont have the time or resources for such an endeavor during your grad school years...

 

[clinicalpsyapp]

That would be cowgirl 😉

And my dissertation topic, although it needs to be narrowed down further, will be on health disparities in the inner city, with a focus on cardiovascular disease. However, I was thinking if I were to write a book, I could write a general book on the topic of health disparities in the inner city. Technically my dissertation would be on the cardiovascular disease section of the book, and everything else would be additional. I happen to have access to an amazing data set that studied many areas of health/mental health in an inner city population.

I know there would be a LOT of additional work involved, but my courseload is reduced because of the transferred coursework and field experience (I actually don't need to do anymore field experiences if I don't want to). Also, my career goal is in academia and research so I would be willing to sacrifice clinical training for undertaking this project.

Anyway, my main question is... has anyone ever heard of someone doing this with their dissertation?

 

[psychmama]

Yes. I've heard of people doing this, although often the first step after dissertation has been to publish a journal article, which could later be expanded into a book. Anyway, I don't think there's any reason you cannot consider this. I think it's great that you are so inspired!

A few things to consider, however. First,you say you'll have plenty of time because no more field work will be needed from you. Not sure what you mean by "field work", but if you're talking about practica/externsips, these will certainly be required before you hit internship. In any case, this is just something you may want to keep in mind. Also, many grad students (myself included) have grand ideas when they first start thinking about dissertation. I chose a topic of personal relevance to me. I was more gung ho about publishing something based on it at the start. Now -- 3.5 yrs in and getting ready to defend in just a few weeks (after a grueling year of internship) I just want the sucker to be DONE! My standards are lower, at least for now. That could change with some time and distance from the dissertation topic. We'll see. You might be quite different than I was, and I'm not at all discouraging you from your book. I'm just warning that the clinical psych doctorate process has many challenges ahead that no one can fully anticipate. Once you're in it, you'll see what I mean.😉

Good luck!

 

[clinicalpsyapp]

Thank you, psychmama, that is great advice! And what I meant was that I already have 800 hours of supervised practicum hours, so I don't HAVE to do any more if I don't want to. However, I might towards the end just to get specific behavioral medicine experience.

I think I might approach it as keeping the dissertation and the book separate. The dissertation will be highly focused, and the book will more be about putting my dissertation into a broader sociocultural perspective. That way if I burn out on the book then I will not affect my dissertation. And then I could always take a break from the book and come back to it a few years later if I need to.

 

[docma]

I think you are in a great position to make the most of your experience, interests and ambition. It is definitely possible to turn a dissertation into a book/text and your topic is definitely in a good growing edge area (both the health disparities topic and health/behavioral health). I agree that you should not close off options by turning away from more advanced fieldwork opportunities in the doctoral training (my whole career direction got shifted by the fieldwork experience in good ways). But DO take advantage of having some hours free of required coursework to build mentoring relationships with faculty and start learning the mechanics of publication, networking, etc. Find a way to present your thesis work at a conference. Develop a data source in your new setting, etc. Get the groundwork completed for getting your dissertation DONE in an efficient, timely way so it is out of the way before the internship application year. One strategy also would be to explore internships that might be a good fit with your long term interests and see how to link what you've already done with what you might do in the dissertation process to set up good internship options. As someone in the public health domain I'm glad to know you're in the incoming flight...

 

[PsychScience]

Lately, I've been thinking about the process and wondering if I have to put so much time into it, if maybe I could just put a little more time into it and really accomplish something with my dissertation besides just satisfying a requirement. Has anyone ever heard of a PhD candidate publishing a book as their dissertation? That's kind of what I've been thinking and I didn't know if it was a ridiculous goal or not.

Thoughts?

I have heard of people taking their dissertation and completing it and then after its defended, expanding on it. I know someone who took their dissertation and made it into a solid foundation for several other projects, which later became a ton of articles. So people definitely use the dissertation as a spring board for other things. Personally, I have never heard of someone writing a book just off their dissertation, but that does not mean it doesn't happen. As an aside, I have also found quite a bit of enjoyment from getting involved in other research projects and a few volunteer/clinical projects in graduate school. If I had picked a really intense dissertation project, I think I would have missed these opportunities. If you are really passionate about your topic it might be good to start with it as a small/moderate sized project that leaves lots of room for growth. Once you have defended, you have more freedom to delve into greater depth, maybe write a few articles or a book.

And what I meant was that I already have 800 hours of supervised practicum hours, so I don't HAVE to do any more if I don't want to. However, I might towards the end just to get specific behavioral medicine experience.

You may want to check on this before you avoid too much clinical work. I think you just mentioned that you started a Ph.D program, and when it comes to internship application time you can only count pre-doctoral hours that were completed while in doctoral program from an approved practicum. Prior graduate school or clinic work does not count in that section, but there is definitely a separate place for it to be logged.

 

[clinicalpsyapp]

Wait, so even though I have done graduate-level practicums during my masters program where I was supervised by a licensed psychologist, and my program sees them as equivalent and is allowing me to transfer them in... They still won't count for internship applications??

 

[erg923]

Correct. Those are masters hours. Not doctoral hours. They dont count on the APPI. You will have to do practica in your grad program just like everyone else. You would be way behind in your clinical competencies by the time you got to apply for internship if you didn't. So even if you could apply with just those masters hours, you wouldn't be competitive compared to everyone else.

 

[clinicalpsyapp]

Ahhh... that's really good to know. My advisor told me otherwise. Does anyone have a link to where APPIC distinguishes masters from doctoral hours? I checked the website but am having trouble finding any info. So you're saying only practicum hours performed after the student is approved as a doctoral candidate count and my 700 hours from my master's are just a bonus?

And thanks for all your help everyone--I'd like to think I would have found all this out anyway, but my advisor couldn't care less about clinical stuff so who knows haha

 

[erg923]

No, "doctoral candidate" is term only used after you have passed qualifying/comprehensive exams, usually after 3rd year. Hours that count toward you APPIC application have to have been completed while enrolled in a doctoral program and sanctioned as formal practicum experience by said doctoral program.

I wouldnt get hung up on this issue, as the bigger issue is one of lack of clincial experience. 1). Almost all predoc internships will require at least 1000 total hours of prac experience in order to even apply to them (you said you only have 700). 2.) And more importantly, think breadth and depth of experiences...not hours. Would you really be clinically competent with only one 700 hour practicum that you will have been 4 years in the past by that time?

 

[clinicalpsyapp]

You raise some great points! I knew that I still wanted to do some clinical work because I am interested in behavioral medicine internships and don't have enough C-L or specific b-med experience (my practicum experiences were in general MH and neuropsychology). However, I had never thought of how it would look if my clinical experience was 4 years old... thanks!

 

[deleted343839]

That would be cowgirl 😉

Also, my career goal is in academia and research so I would be willing to sacrifice clinical training for undertaking this project.

If you are aiming for a career in academia, your focus should be publishing multiple (preferably, empirical) articles from your dissertation in well regarded peer reviewed journals. Shopping a manuscript at a reputable academic press will be an uphill battle at this stage in your career. It is better to get your name out in the field and then work on a book length manuscript once you are more established.

In case you were thinking about writing a book geared toward a wider (read: non-academic) audience, I don't think this will significantly help your academic career. In fact, if you are an early professional, it could hurt your career prospects because it may suggest to others that you are not fully dedicated to scholarly productivity.

And don't neglect your clinical work (and I say that as a current academic from a clinical scientist training program). This is important for internship applications, for your general well roundedness as a psychologist, and for your career prospects should the academic route be delayed or not work out. My advice is to choose practica that require fewer hours per week, but keep your head in the game.

If your dissertation research, publication strategy, and clinical work don't eat up enough of your time, then another way to get closer to an academic career in your field is to build your public health credentials. Look into taking coursework toward an MPH degree or a master's in health services research. This training will serve you extremely well if you plan to remain in the health disparities field.

It sounds like you have a lot of ambition and energy - aim wisely! Good luck!

 

[Doctor Eliza]

My understanding is that books and books chapters are not considered in as high of regard as peer-review journal articles in the academic world. If you want to shoot for the stars, try to publish articles off of your dissertation and publish them in top journals.

One of my profs said you should be able to get multiple (2-3) articles out of your dis. Of course, that is a long and difficult process to make one massive document into three unique articles (focusing on different aspects of your study, with slightly different angles, stats, etc.)

I tried to find a link for you on the hours issue, but it seems like the AAPI is all online now and you can't just take a look at it. (I think when I applied that was not the case). Anyway, I agree with the other posters: terminal master's program hrs are considered separately from PhD hrs. Sorry. 🙁

Also, my best advice to you is this: keep the dis manageable. I did not want to go into academia, so my situation was a little different, but the best decision (the only good decision?) I made in my program was to keep my dis logistically simple. For example, I used a college student sample (even though I had to adjust my research questions a little) and simple stats. I have friends who did beautiful grand dissertations with unique samples (e.g., parents of autistic children, family members of people who completed suicide) but the recruitment was brutal and extended their dis time months to YEARS. Moral of the story: I am done with my program while some of my friends are still stuck collecting data. Also, I had friends that used such unique stats that their major profs couldn't help them at all and this posed a major problem.

Keep it all in perspective: your dis is unlikely to revolutionize the world. It is another hurdle that you need to complete on your way to your goal. If you can get a few pubs out of it, great. However, there are many things that go into making a good job candidate and the dis is only one of them. You don't want to suffer in grad school forever because you made your dis too big.


Dr. Eliza

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Ahhh... that's really good to know. My advisor told me otherwise. Does anyone have a link to where APPIC distinguishes masters from doctoral hours? I checked the website but am having trouble finding any info. So you're saying only practicum hours performed after the student is approved as a doctoral candidate count and my 700 hours from my master's are just a bonus?

If it were anywhere on the website, it'd be in the FAQ section. This has been covered in years past on the APPIC Listserv because the old APPI had two columns (one for Masters and one for Doctoral), though I believe this was eliminated once it went online.

You are correct that the only practica hours that are accounted must be signed off on by your supervisors, and only at the doctoral level. You can mention your prior practica somewhere else in your app, but they cannot be counted towards your APPI hours.