I was wondering if any programs come to mind that are particularly diverse (or not), or emphasize diversity more than others? Is this something that psychiatry residencies specifically seek out? Is there even any real way to control for this, given the way the match process works? And, is psychiatry even a specialty that minorities tend to go into? I can see psychiatry as a very minority-friendly field, and at the same time I could also see many reasons for why minority students may not go into psychiatry.
diversity in psych residency programs
- Thread starter thomasina
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Diversity in terms of what?
The reason i ask is because, having lived in some of the most hyper-liberal places in the whole of western civilization it has occurred to me that the people usually concerned with such questions don't mean diversity at all... what they typically mean is a bunch of different people who think exactly like I do. Or some such feeble-minded identity politics.
The reason i ask is because, having lived in some of the most hyper-liberal places in the whole of western civilization it has occurred to me that the people usually concerned with such questions don't mean diversity at all... what they typically mean is a bunch of different people who think exactly like I do. Or some such feeble-minded identity politics.
There is definitely going to be variation in programs in terms of A) the existing diversity of the faculty and trainees, and B) the level of institutional commitment to work towards a greater degree of racial and gender diversity. My training program had a diverse group of residents, with an articulated commitment to sustain this, although the faculty was substantially less diverse. I think you could take a look at prior residents, the faculty you meet on the interview day, and ask questions about the institutions commitment to these values to get a sense of this as you interview.
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PDs have almost no control over ethnic variations within their programs. Some programs may be more appealing to some groups, but it is the applicants who decide this.
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Yeah this. Diversity in psych programs means attendings with a diversity of practice styles, expertises, and teaching approaches, all of whom have considerable mutual respect for each other. It means your patient population presents in all sorts of ways, from all sorts of backgrounds.
Quite honestly, 'diversity' is always dubious, but it just becomes dumb at the professional level.
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Yes and while I agree with much of what you say about efforts that can be made (and are by us), programs seem to flow into and out of inexplicable trends despite the make up of the rank lists. One year it is "Why did we take so many Xs and not Ys?" A few years latter it reverses without identifiable cause. This is inevitable with so many variables people care about and only so many slots. Gender, race, orientation... It seems few programs are identified as "X" or "Y" friendly for more than 10 years because things drift. It has only been in the last half decade that Asians are the modal race reported for psych. Psychiatry has always been considered female friendly, but even though women as a proportion have increased a lot in med school, their percentage in psychiatry is about the same.
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Nonsense. Of the liberal, social engineering sort. Which succeeds not one bit in terms of diversifying anything real other than giving a small number of brown-skinned medical students, from upper middle class backgrounds, an even more disproportionate number of opportunities than they already have.
It's presumptuous identity politics.
I went to an HBCU. Black graduates aren't interested in psych.
To that substrate come the socialists to fix it: offering recruitment tools. All competing for the same tiny number of brown psych applicants.
Go figure, the ivy places can make a perfect brochure-worthy, level of racial-identity-politically-correct distribution of melanin. Because they have the greatest number of applicants with the ability to recruit given their brand recognition.
And that's a win for brown patients?
How? why?
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Interesting mix of skilled word smithing and profanity. I do see some truth in what you are saying about previous diversification efforts.
I'm telling you this right now. I am a minority applying in psych. And being a minority does not affect your chances on getting a interview for residency.
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Why, in your opinion, does diversity become dumb at the professional level?
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I don't know if it does or doesn't. And I don't care.
What's more interesting to me is on what basis people think it should? Because how else, as is implied by the OP's question, or in the overt, progressive social engineering of Splik, would you obtain a residency matching pool that is distinctly out of sync with the larger applicant pool, but instead is a curated display of diversity?
I think what happens is people, diverse--hahaha, these concepts get absurd when you play with them--or whitebread than a mf'er--vote with their feet. Because that's what is possible in psych. And people who are concerned about the safe space of diversity should seek communities where those types of gentle souls tend to migrate towards. As by cultural geography at large.
And that is what happens.
There might be a higher degree of curatorial overhandedness at the liberal ivies who not only espouse such doctrine's but are the chief progenitors of it.
So, if diversity is important to someone, just like with most things, kick ass in med school and the choice will be your's. And you can screen for the environment you prefer.
If you're a gender fluid, fox-identified, wiccan, with a high degree of sensitivity for your precise pronoun. And require your colleague's observance of it's continual migration...then don't match in Arkansas.
Like that.
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How about know what you mean by diversity and the consequences of making it policy and practice before, ingesting it whole, accepting it as maxim, and then asking others why they don't jump to the same tune? As if there must be some moral deficiency if someone doesn't agree with your premise?
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Lol I simply asked a question to get more insight into what the comment meant before I would consider responding. I didn't want to assume what I thought they meant and be wrong. You are going wayyyyy too hard.
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how would you know this? not true by the way...
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This has nothing to do with socialism only Americans who don't know what socialism brand social liberalism or rawlsian social justice as socialism. You are correct, people from particular minority groups including african americans shirk psychiatry because they didn't get to where they did only to disgrace themselves and their families by becoming psychiatrists. I share with you the concern that some of these efforts often end up being directed at applicants who aren't really disadvantaged (i.e. harvard students, nigerians, cubans etc) and there is the danger they only give the semblance of achieving something but in reality they don't achieve their purported aims. The system is racist through and through.
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We don't agree as much as you think. There's no racial conspiracy in the educational system. There's corrupt socialist, liberal policies that have wrecked African-American communities by rotting them from the inside out, right at the core family structure. Because guilty white liberals think other's have no sense of agency and that they're not fit to tend to themselves. Who naturally see everything in terms of race. And who are in fact the biggest racist racketeers out there.
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If you truly want diversity, it's easy enough to find. Go to an IMG-heavy inner city program, there's plenty of them. You'll work with interesting people from all over the world and an interesting and pathologically complex mix of patients.
Unless what you mean by diversity is a certain sort of high-brow, white tower diversity, where you're working with different shades of American-born medical graduates that are largely from well-off families, in a nice academic program and area. That sort of false diversity is hard to find.
Unless what you mean by diversity is a certain sort of high-brow, white tower diversity, where you're working with different shades of American-born medical graduates that are largely from well-off families, in a nice academic program and area. That sort of false diversity is hard to find.
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hahaha. Beautifully put. Thank you. This is more witty and succinct by illustration than I was able to articulate with bombastic argument.
Aren't IMGs typically in the upper class of their respective countries, though? I imagine that having the resources and social connections to know how to study for the step exams and have adequate command of English doesn't come easy...
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Being well-off in another country is completely different than being well-off in the United States. I've worked with people who had to deal with civil wars, hospitals lacking in even basic equipment, etc. They have very different experiences and stories that are as varied as the nations they come from. Some saved for years as physicians in their home country, making less than our CNAs to have a shot at making it, others had servants and chauffeurs. One thing is for sure though- there's more diversity of experiences and opinions to be found between a handful of FMGs than you'll see I'm entire programs of "diverse" US MDs.
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My program is quite diverse. We only have 1 straight white man per year in a program with 10/year with a mix of AMGs and IMGs. More AMGs tho, who do tend to be less interesting. We also have diverse religious and cultural backgrounds. I'm not sure if it's deliberate, but it's pretty cool.
Edit: Will share my program's name in PM
Edit: Will share my program's name in PM
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How are they able to populate this program with so many gay males? Not that there's anything wrong with that. 😉
Baylor College of Medicine has a diverse program. Check the residents page.
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I am actually more interested in diversity among the faculty, both in their background and in their outlook. That's pretty hard to find IMO.
That's a good point. I would like role models that are diverse in background and outlook.
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xxx
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Wow, a lot of replies in this thread are offputting and full of myopias. There are definitely programs that emphasize diversity more than others and those who think that we're beyond issues around diversity are those who don't emphasize it. I've gotten interview confirmation emails from certain residency programs with contact information for leadership in diversity and faculty who are considered minorities, so some programs definitely emphasize this more than others. I think that both the overall academic institution and the residency program it's under can prioritize diversity in many ways, which are readily apparent. Many times you have to see what programs are NOT saying rather than what they are.
One of the biggest commitments to diversity is looking at the leadership structure: Is there a Director or Vice Chair of Diversity? What are the hiring practices for staff/faculty? What are the funding streams to help faculty/staff who are minorities?
Another clue is to look at the curriculum itself: Does the program have a curriculum for teaching issues surrounding diversity, such as privilege, oppression, cultural/ethnic identity, and bias. Places like OHSU and Baylor does this well even when they have a smaller proportion of marginalized populations.
Bigger urban areas definitely have more of this (regardless of being IMG heavy or not) since they come into contact much more often with issues surrounding diversity within their patient and staff population. Places where the privileged class are predominant usually, but not always, don't feel like they need to talk about it because they don't see it as relevant to their personal priorities (which further oppresses minorities). Places like Boston, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia come to mind, but not as an exhaustive list.
One of the biggest commitments to diversity is looking at the leadership structure: Is there a Director or Vice Chair of Diversity? What are the hiring practices for staff/faculty? What are the funding streams to help faculty/staff who are minorities?
Another clue is to look at the curriculum itself: Does the program have a curriculum for teaching issues surrounding diversity, such as privilege, oppression, cultural/ethnic identity, and bias. Places like OHSU and Baylor does this well even when they have a smaller proportion of marginalized populations.
Bigger urban areas definitely have more of this (regardless of being IMG heavy or not) since they come into contact much more often with issues surrounding diversity within their patient and staff population. Places where the privileged class are predominant usually, but not always, don't feel like they need to talk about it because they don't see it as relevant to their personal priorities (which further oppresses minorities). Places like Boston, Chicago, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia come to mind, but not as an exhaustive list.
You will find that regardless of background (ethnicity or SES) most good psychiatrists will come to pretty much the same diagnostic conclusion and similar treatment plan.
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Are you feeling triggered?
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Because, by the time we're talking about life and death, I think the thing that matters is ability.
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Good god...are you a special snowflake. Whatever environment you enter becomes more enlightened with your presence. Because...melanin...or whatever...
Yep. Special snowflake training makes it's way into the professional world. With whole generations of people trained in the pseudoscience of intersectional oppression and privilege entering the work force.
And take a close look at what is assumed in the language of this post.
Don't imagine it won't affect psychiatric practice. The notion of resilience itself will be triggering. If it isn't already so.
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Supporting diversity in programs doesn't have to mean some sort of affirmative action type situation. You can have the exact same residents nation wide, but they can end up distributed in ways that make individual programs more or less diverse.
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Right... So you believe that residency programs are wasting their time to teach their residents how inequalities in society affect their patients. Racism, classism, and other inequalities must be fake ("pseudoscience") if you say so. There aren't millions of people who face this on a day-to-day basis, especially not psych patients. There's no way that culture can have an impact on our psych patients, and residents who share those perspectives personally definitely don't help their patients more than those who don't have those perspectives. /sarcasm
I am assuming in my post that those who think diversity and inequality isn't a problem only think so because it isn't a problem to them personally, and as a result, health disparities training is definitely not a priority at all residency programs. That's what OP was asking, which was whether programs teach this and value this, not whether it is of merit to do so.
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You haven't scratched the surface of your assumptions.
There's not a thing that you think, about this sort of thing, that I don't already know you think. Because ideologies are easy to predict.
I suppose I should just walk away from my black schizophrenics. Because afterall. I'm a cis-hetero-nomrative-white-male. What could i possibly know about their struggles. That isn't taught to me be a professional ideologue with a degree in nonsense who has the requisite melanin concentration.
You should come take my place. Forget that you don't what you're doing. Your diversity will do the heavy lifting.
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You're completely missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm not talking about residency programs having the prerequisite melanin distribution (you seem to be obsessed with the issue of skin color since you mention it in multiple posts), or proper proportion of vaginas/penises and how they're attracted to each other, or anything else of that sort. Nor am I talking about affirmative action where programs accept underqualified applicants based on some identity that's more desired because of their "minority status" over more well-qualified applicants with less "diversity." What I'm talking about is whether residency programs teach issues surrounding diversity and difference because it's relevant to patient care as well as whether residency programs create an environment that respects minority identities, which often times comes from recruiting and retaining those with minority identities.
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Define "teach". There in-lies the problem.
Social marxism at its finest attempting to integrate and sway good treatment by popular opinion.
Social marxism at its finest attempting to integrate and sway good treatment by popular opinion.
D
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but you did specifically mention hiring practice aimed at diversity and specifically funding streams for students and staff that were "diversity"
Can you articulate how that doesn't translate to preferential treatment seperate from skill/qualifications?
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Almost as good as the concept 'people should pay their fair share in taxes'. Define 'fair share'.
This kind of emotional rhetoric belongs with the social workers, not psychiatry.
This kind of emotional rhetoric belongs with the social workers, not psychiatry.
