Divining Research Ideas

[GreenLedbetter]

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Regarding summer research: I have been reading that in order to avoid spending the summer after MS1 in front of somebody else's excel spread sheet entering data, it is important to get involved in a project that you have a hand in starting, ie. coming up with the idea, procedures, etc. Point taken. It seems as though in order to come up with ideas for clinical research in any field, however, one would have to have a sound understanding of the field, its current problems, issues, and questions. Maybe having seen recurrent issues with patients would trigger a thought that turns into a research idea. These are not exactly things I am in touch with as an MS1. I am not well versed in any particular field of medicine, I am just a first year med student with interest in a particular field because of the experience a physician I once shadowed for a few days. I would like to get involved in research in the field but like I said I do not know much about its academic cutting edge.

Can anyone explain how I can go about getting involved in a project that I have an instrumental hand in starting, investigating, etc. with sympathy for my situation.

Thanks

 

[Vonsmack]

It is kind of difficult for a first year medical student to come up with a research project on their own. What you have to remember is that researchers have ongoing projects where they have applied and received grants for that particular project. That's why you have to choose wisely and look at the current projects that the professor is researching. If you see something interesting, thats when you can pursue working in his/her lab. Be up front and tell them you want your own side project, and you don't want to simply enter data or wash beakers. Many times profs have experiments on the backburner they haven't been able to start due to lack of manpower and time. If your school has an organized summer research program that will make it easier for you, or you can apply to other programs around the country. The key is IMO to be straightforward, and even express your goals/expectations like you want 2 pubs in 1 summer. (they might laugh at you, but you get the point)

Once you have some experience in the lab and have gained knowledge in that subject then you could more appropriately come up with extensions of the project, better methods, etc. Thats when the project becomes your own and research gets fun.

 

[WellWornLad]

I think it's important to get a firm understanding of the field, but designing your own research project is not a prerequisite to non-data entry positions. That said, if you have done enough research in the field to make yourself useful, you should be able to identify areas of interest or unanswered questions in that field. Coming up with a research idea is a natural extension of that awareness; you don't need to be an expert in the field to do that.

It's got nothing to do with being an MS1. Med school is never going to teach you the minutiae you need to know to contribute to research. If you want to gain that knowledge, start by going on Ovid/Pubmed/Google Scholar and downloading review articles (ask your local friendly librarian if you have trouble getting articles; many are available only through your school library subscriptions). Read a ton of articles, the newer the better (at least for review articles), the more the better. You may have to read some several times, as you will not pick up everything the first time through. Once you have a foundation of understanding, you can narrow your reading to areas of interest. After reading a ton of those articles, you should have an idea of what people are trying to figure out, and what remains to be figured out (hint: the discussion section usually mentions unsolved questions and future directions for research).

If this seems like a lot of work, that's because it is. They don't call it research for nothing. But lack of knowledge is not really an excuse - all the knowledge you need is out there on the Internet. Just takes some time and effort.

 

[GreenLedbetter]

If you see something interesting, thats when you can pursue working in his/her lab. Be up front and tell them you want your own side project, and you don't want to simply enter data or wash beakers.

On another, distantly related, note: First, thanks for the response. Now, I also have been reading a lot about peoples' concerns with stipends and whatnot. It would seem a little uncomfortable to be asking a professor to take you onto there team/project and expect money out of it. It seems like saying, can you do me a favor by taking me on, and pay me for it?

To me, it seems like I am trying to get my foot in the research door, I don't want them slamming that door in my face, or on my toe. I feel like I should be working for free because in reality, while I may be working under/for a PI, I am really working to better myself, my academic knowledge, my resume, my career, etc. Am I being naive? Should I expect to get some sort of stipend or something? Why do so many people expect stipends for this kind of work, or do they?

 

[WellWornLad]

Should I expect to get some sort of stipend or something? Why do so many people expect stipends for this kind of work, or do they?

It depends entirely on how much money the PI in question has to burn. If their lab has plenty of money, they won't mind paying you. The vast majority, however, are watching their budgets very carefully and cannot/will not pay you. There are a lot of research grants out there, however, which is win-win for you and the PI. They get a free set of hands, you get paid.

 

[Vonsmack]

Yeah, it is unlikely that a professor is going to pay you straight up out of their funding. You would have to look for outside grants/stipends that awards students for their research. Another option is checking with your school, most have some sort of research program and will pay you as a school employee for the summer (kind of like the grad students). That's what I did, and while it wasn't much money it was enough. Like you said it's more about the experience gained but you have to make ends meet somehow.

If that doesn't work out, your prof might be more willing to pay you out of his own funding if you put in your own time before/after the summer.

 

[enjoydrywax]

I hate to reign on the med student parade here, but as a pre-med I always wondered about publishing something worthwhile after only three months of research. In my basic science research experience, my one publication came after 2 years of work and it was only a second author at that.

So when I read this thread about divining an idea (I have the same concerns as the OP), I naturally think that even if I do come up with one, how could you realistically publish it after only 3 months of work in a respectable peer-reviewed journal and not your medical school's lets-publish-everybody's-project-so-we-can-all-feel-good magazine. Perhaps it's the nature of clinical vs. basic science research?

 

[Vonsmack]

You are correct in assuming that is easier to publish in clinical research than basic science, and less time consuming. Some may say that basic science research is more impressive on a CV for that reason, but that's subjective. Nobody is contending that after a 3 month project you will be publishing in Nature or the NEJM. Obviously those are the type of publications that PHDs go after for their thesis. That's not the point really, because med students are going after research experiences. Every pub and presentation counts, and thats what residencies look at. Any differences in quality of publication would be subtle in terms of competetiveness for residency.
So yeah, chances are that if summer research is done, it will take more work than a summer if their goal is to publish.

 

[coldweatherblue]

I'm comfortable with spending my summer filling in data on someone else's excel sheet if it gets me published.

It'd be really awesome to come up with your own idea and be a direct part of the trial. Pretty sure that I do NOT have the time/effort to go to the lengths necessary to carry it out, even though you'd learn a lot. I'm curious to see the responses, also how you would go about designing and completing an entire study in only ~8 weeks? Most research I've seen (that involves working in someone's lab) usually publishes up to a year after research is completed.

 

[kevster2001]

I'm comfortable with spending my summer filling in data on someone else's excel sheet if it gets me published.

It'd be really awesome to come up with your own idea and be a direct part of the trial. Pretty sure that I do NOT have the time/effort to go to the lengths necessary to carry it out, even though you'd learn a lot. I'm curious to see the responses, also how you would go about designing and completing an entire study in only ~8 weeks? Most research I've seen (that involves working in someone's lab) usually publishes up to a year after research is completed.

Not in the 8 summer weeks but you can design it during school. The study focus and idea probalby will have to come from the PI but you can do a lot of leg work and design the project yourself and run it by the PI. Make sure to get IRB approval before summer starts. Then it's kind of up to the gods whether your data collection can be done in time. That's the major thing during the 8 weeks.
It's better to be 1st author on a smaller project than 2nd/3rd author on a slightly better project where you're just inputting info into an excel sheet. One thing i made to get was total control over my project so I could dictate how fast I wanted things to move rather than wait for some research fellow to get around to giving me whatever info i needed.

Luckily I also bagged an assistant that saved me a bunch of time

 

[WellWornLad]

I'm comfortable with spending my summer filling in data on someone else's excel sheet if it gets me published.

It'd be really awesome to come up with your own idea and be a direct part of the trial. Pretty sure that I do NOT have the time/effort to go to the lengths necessary to carry it out, even though you'd learn a lot. I'm curious to see the responses, also how you would go about designing and completing an entire study in only ~8 weeks? Most research I've seen (that involves working in someone's lab) usually publishes up to a year after research is completed.

Like the poster above said, you design the project in the winter/spring, and execute during the summer. Once you've got your data, you can take your time and write up the paper as you have the time. Publications come years after "research" (i.e., data collection) because submitting papers takes time - you have to get your manuscript together, submit it, wait for a variable amount of time depending on the journal, and then respond to anonymous reviewer critiques to your manuscript, which involves a good deal of work and may even necessitate more experiments/data in extreme cases. Then resubmit, wait, respond again until there's no more objections. You can also be rejected, which means you have to find another journal to send it to and start from scratch. You can't send your manuscript to multiple journals, so the process is in series rather than parallel.

Bottom line: summer is for data collection. Getting the data published involves a lot of downtime and waiting, but it certainly can be done.