DMU vs. KCUMB-analyzed

[DaBlackRose]

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I wasn't sure where to post this to get the most replies, so i'll let the mods take care of it if it needs to moved.

I got accepted by both DMU and KCUMB. Both schools are very good and I am having a really hard time choosing between them. So I made a chart so I could visibly see the differences between the schools. Problem is that in the end the schools come out at a tie.

I looked ath the other DMU vs. KCUMB thread from several years ago and several things seem to have changed since then. So I figured its time for a new thread. I have to make my decision by March 1st, so any more information or advice would be helpful.

Here is my chart: (for some reason i can't get it to appear in table form so its just a list- sorry its so long)

**Cost/Budget and COMLEX scores vary only by $1,200 and 1-2% points.

KCUMB

.Systems-based Curriculum.​

.-more comprehensive boards
-full body way of thinking.​

.Unique*.​

.Score 1 for health.​

.Older facilities.​

.-more time with dummy.​

.-more study places.​

.International Opportunities.​

.Guatemala.. only.​

.Dress Code Required or Scrubs.​

.Community.​

.Student-on-Student “feel” is fantastic
(dorm-like feel via Century Towers).​

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is only okay.​

.Technology.​

.Paper printouts primarily.​

.Clinicals --??.​

.3rd yr: KC or other.​

.4th yr: make your own.
Complaints

.Lesser quality rotations.​

.Bad part of town.
​

​

DMU

.Didactic-based Curriculum.​

.-electives offered
.​

.-masters in anatomy/public health
.​

.Unique*.​

.Surgical skills lab.​

.Newer facilities.​

.-newer & more dummies.​

.-more standardized patient time.​

.International Opportunities..
India, Africa, S. America count for rotations.​

.No dress Code.​

.Community.​

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is fantastic.​

.Student-on-Student “feel” is only okay.​

.(more married students).​

.Technology.​

.Laptop & PDA included in tuition.​

.Clinicals --??.​

.3rd yr: iowa or other.​

.4th yr: make your own.
​

.Complaints
. .Spend more time looking like you know what you’re
doing than actually learning to know what you’re doing.
​

* Score 1 for health is a community outreach program where all students from KCUMB go into elementary schools and do a free health check. They end up handing out lots of glasses, diagnose dyslexia, etc for many students who haven't seen a doctor and probably won't for awhile.

* Surgical skills lab is an extra area at DMU that teaches students basic surgical skills before going into rotations. Many hospitals around the area allegedly love DMU students because of their prepared-ness in these surgical techniques that most students have to learn as they go.


If anyone knows anything special about clinicals or the complaints area please let me know! If there is anything that is wrong or unclear also let me know.

Otherwise, for a more table setup, I've attached my word doc that may make more sense in comparing the two schools.

 

[spicedmanna]

* Score 1 for health is a community outreach program where all students from KCUMB go into elementary schools and do a free health check. They end up handing out lots of glasses, diagnose dyslexia, etc for many students who haven't seen a doctor and probably won't for awhile.

I've gotten a lot out of this program over the past two year, in particular. Most of the time it's like performing quick well-patient checks on elementary school kids who perhaps haven't seen a physician in a while (if ever), but every once in a while you come across a notable finding and you are actually able to, with the help of the attending physicians on-site, learn a little bit about the pathology, what it means clinically, and then send a note home to the parents or guardians urging them to seek medical attention. It's a chance to learn and to make a difference at the same time. I've actually come across some pretty interesting physical findings, some issues that you can't believe weren't caught earlier.

I have so many good memories of my experiences at Score 1, and while I have no desire to go into Peds, I've learned a lot from working with the kids. I have the perception that I am more competent in performing screenings and physicals as a result of these experiences, and I certainly feel more confident, for whatever that's worth. It's good practice and it's good for the kids. The down side, however, is that, in most cases, you don't (and won't be able to) do much until 2nd year and sometimes the Score 1 sessions overlap with precious study time. Also, there is a degree of luck involved, too, since there a number of tasks at Score 1 you can be assigned to do. I was lucky, I believe, in that I somehow ended up being assigned to do physical assessments every time. I guess it's fair, though, since I did too many vision screens my first year, LOL.

 

[iatetheworm]

KCUMB

.Student-on-Student “feel” is fantastic
.​

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is only okay.​

​

DMU

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is fantastic.​

.Student-on-Student “feel” is only okay.​

Gotta love the feel of student-on-student. +1 KCUMB 👍
​

 

[schrute]

I felt DMU was a good education, though they've made changes to the clinical curriculum in the past few yrs. Whether they're at the point currently or are still a few yrs out, their goal is to have everyone remain in IA for 3rd yr, the intent being (allegedly) that they have more control of the quality & consistency of the rotations. Whether this will happen is anyone's guess, but the fact remains that Des Moines only being so big can only support so many students, so if you aren't one of the students who gets to stay around 3rd yr, you'll likely have to move to ??, IA, for a good portion of your 3rd yr rotations.

Perhaps a current 3rd yr student could shed some light...

In any case, the Dean (who's very vocal & supportive of the students) just retired from clinical practice as a surgical oncologist, so one can assume he'll be able to put a more worthwhile effort into running the school.

Overall, looking back, I felt my education was on par with what was necessary, felt I had a leg-up on rotations compared to students from other schools, felt there was plenty of room for personal exploration to find a field that suited me, had plenty of time to study boards, liked living in DM, and was well prepared for residency.

That being said, however, I do feel clinical education for DOs in general is often rather crappy in its organization. Excluding some required rotations, I essentially set up my clinical education. Due to the fact the DO schools aren't tied to any large teaching institutions, you often have to fend for yourself...which is fine if you have good guidance, aren't lazy, and want the most out of your education. But the ability to fall between the cracks (either through laziness or naivity) is greater in DO school, IMHO.

 

[Tenacious DO]

"Complaints
Spend more time looking like you know what you’re
doing than actually learning to know what you’re doing"

This is a pretty common theme throughout all Med Schools
aka "Fake it, til you make it"

I am not going to get into the pissing match of one school vs. another. There are a number of us that picked DMU over KCUMB because we felt that DMU was a better fit for our learning style and goals....I can imagine that the same could be said for those that selected KCUMB over DMU. I know that is not much help.

It has been said before, "What ever school (residency) you go to is the best"....Justification is a funny little defense mechanism.

 

[zmeister22]

KCUMB

.Systems-based Curriculum.


.-more study places.​

​

​

DMU


​

.Complaints
. .Spend more time looking like you know what you're
doing than actually learning to know what you're doing.
​

* Score 1 for health is a community outreach program where all students from KCUMB go into elementary schools and do a free health check. They end up handing out lots of glasses, diagnose dyslexia, etc for many students who haven't seen a doctor and probably won't for awhile.

* Surgical skills lab is an extra area at DMU that teaches students basic surgical skills before going into rotations. Many hospitals around the area allegedly love DMU students because of their prepared-ness in these surgical techniques that most students have to learn as they go.

First of all, there are PLENTY of study spaces at DMU. Awesome facilities and tons of space, even during finals weeks.

DMU has plenty of community outreach, even with kids. We get emails about going out and doing community stuffs about every two days.

And as for ".Spend more time looking like you know what you're doing than actually learning to know what you're doing.", what do you have to base this on? 🙄 Your explanation should be interesting.

 

[BabyKangaroo]

First of all, there are PLENTY of study spaces at DMU. Awesome facilities and tons of space, even during finals weeks.

DMU has plenty of community outreach, even with kids. We get emails about going out and doing community stuffs about every two days.

And as for ".Spend more time looking like you know what you’re doing than actually learning to know what you’re doing.", what do you have to base this on? 🙄 Your explanation should be interesting.

I think I read this somewhere else on the threads posted by a 3rd year at DMU. The OP is just regurgitating info. they read somewhere on the threads. My guess...

 

[spicedmanna]

First of all, there are PLENTY of study spaces at DMU. Awesome facilities and tons of space, even during finals weeks.

I was going to claim that KCUMB didn't have a lot of study spaces, actually. It's hard to get a place when tests roll around.

DMU has plenty of community outreach, even with kids. We get emails about going out and doing community stuffs about every two days.

Score 1 is a required activity. We must attend twice in first year and six times in second year. It's part of the curriculum. In addition to that, we also have the ordinary community outreach stuff.

 

[DaBlackRose]

Everyone is right. In the complaints section i am just regurgitating the negative things that i read that might have some merit. I really don't have any way to tell, and since nobody is offering much "real" criticism i don't have any other choice but to at least consider the possibility of its' truth.

It's interesting that KCUMB has less study places, i thought with Century towers, the library, and that little study building that is nothing BUT study rooms there would be enough room. Maybe i shoulda taken into account the larger class size. I really like having a designated study place, so its important to me to have space. And if i had my way, I'd be doing study groups for every class and KCUMB seemed to have more. However, that's sorta a minor issue.

I would LOVE if someone could discuss rotations and curriculum!!! You know the quality of your education and whatnot. I'm aware most students like the school they go to, but there has to be a way to decide SOMEHOW, right?

 

[schrute]

Everyone is right. In the complaints section i am just regurgitating the negative things that i read that might have some merit. I really don't have any way to tell, and since nobody is offering much "real" criticism i don't have any other choice but to at least consider the possibility of its' truth.

It's interesting that KCUMB has less study places, i thought with Century towers, the library, and that little study building that is nothing BUT study rooms there would be enough room. Maybe i shoulda taken into account the larger class size. I really like having a designated study place, so its important to me to have space. And if i had my way, I'd be doing study groups for every class and KCUMB seemed to have more. However, that's sorta a minor issue.

I would LOVE if someone could discuss rotations and curriculum!!! You know the quality of your education and whatnot. I'm aware most students like the school they go to, but there has to be a way to decide SOMEHOW, right?

Just keep in mind that no one (no program director, no hospital, no patient) is going to care where you went to med school (for the most part), and the variations between the two educations are negligible in the long run (though they seem quite important to you now).

You're going to succeed depending on your drive & ability, and though things may turn out differently depending on what school you attend (ie. you'll have different experiences that will influence your career plans) there's no way you can prepare for that.

 

[Jamers]

School physicals at DMU: you spend 4-5 hours doing physicals on about 40 kids. You also have the CAP program where you do anatomy demonstrations for youngsters and go to local schools to present medical topics/discussions.

I think the one curious thing you mentioned was "more comprehensive boards" and I have no idea what that means. DMU pays for the Kaplan course which is great and a reason we seem to always score above the mean.

I wasn't sure where to post this to get the most replies, so i'll let the mods take care of it if it needs to moved.

I got accepted by both DMU and KCUMB. Both schools are very good and I am having a really hard time choosing between them. So I made a chart so I could visibly see the differences between the schools. Problem is that in the end the schools come out at a tie.

I looked ath the other DMU vs. KCUMB thread from several years ago and several things seem to have changed since then. So I figured its time for a new thread. I have to make my decision by March 1st, so any more information or advice would be helpful.

Here is my chart: (for some reason i can't get it to appear in table form so its just a list- sorry its so long)

**Cost/Budget and COMLEX scores vary only by $1,200 and 1-2% points.

KCUMB

.Systems-based Curriculum.​

.-more comprehensive boards
-full body way of thinking.​

.Unique*.​

.Score 1 for health.​

.Older facilities.​

.-more time with dummy.​

.-more study places.​

.International Opportunities.​

.Guatemala.. only.​

.Dress Code Required or Scrubs.​

.Community.​

.Student-on-Student “feel” is fantastic
(dorm-like feel via Century Towers).​

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is only okay.​

.Technology.​

.Paper printouts primarily.​

.Clinicals --??.​

.3rd yr: KC or other.​

.4th yr: make your own.
Complaints

.Lesser quality rotations.​

.Bad part of town.
​

​

DMU

.Didactic-based Curriculum.​

.-electives offered
.​

.-masters in anatomy/public health
.​

.Unique*.​

.Surgical skills lab.​

.Newer facilities.​

.-newer & more dummies.​

.-more standardized patient time.​

.International Opportunities..
India, Africa, S. America count for rotations.​

.No dress Code.​

.Community.​

.Student-on-Admin “feel” is fantastic.​

.Student-on-Student “feel” is only okay.​

.(more married students).​

.Technology.​

.Laptop & PDA included in tuition.​

.Clinicals --??.​

.3rd yr: iowa or other.​

.4th yr: make your own.
​

.Complaints
. .Spend more time looking like you know what you’re
doing than actually learning to know what you’re doing.
​

* Score 1 for health is a community outreach program where all students from KCUMB go into elementary schools and do a free health check. They end up handing out lots of glasses, diagnose dyslexia, etc for many students who haven't seen a doctor and probably won't for awhile.

* Surgical skills lab is an extra area at DMU that teaches students basic surgical skills before going into rotations. Many hospitals around the area allegedly love DMU students because of their prepared-ness in these surgical techniques that most students have to learn as they go.


If anyone knows anything special about clinicals or the complaints area please let me know! If there is anything that is wrong or unclear also let me know.

Otherwise, for a more table setup, I've attached my word doc that may make more sense in comparing the two schools.

 

[Jamers]

I have to say that I don't think I have really been surprised on rotations thus far. Sure, there is lots of crap you learn in med school that you will NEVER use. But I honestly think I have been very well prepared.

"Complaints
Spend more time looking like you know what you’re
doing than actually learning to know what you’re doing"

This is a pretty common theme throughout all Med Schools
aka "Fake it, til you make it"

I am not going to get into the pissing match of one school vs. another. There are a number of us that picked DMU over KCUMB because we felt that DMU was a better fit for our learning style and goals....I can imagine that the same could be said for those that selected KCUMB over DMU. I know that is not much help.

It has been said before, "What ever school (residency) you go to is the best"....Justification is a funny little defense mechanism.

 

[DaBlackRose]

So, first I want to thank everyone who has responded thus far. It has really helped me narrow in on the important factors.

After getting so many PMs and other feedback, I just wanted to update the information about the schools to give some people a chance to respond as well as to help any student out there with their decision as well. I have taken the names off the quotes, since I want to respect their privacy.
I also should mention that I got several responses that were in whole very positive and well put together that were not quoted simply because they said "i like my school. Haven't had any problems. Good luck". Those help. However, since I want to boil my decision down to where I'll get the best education I focused on 3 areas of commentary: curriculum, clinicals, and general complaints that haven't been stated before.

*these quotes come from PMs i've received or info I got from the school

​

.DMU.​

didn't get as many analytical responses on this one.

Curriculum:

Seems like with each passing year, the OMM dept there grows more powerful and influences the curriculum negatively. The school provided laptop is underpowered and you overpay for it quite a bit. The first year didactic curriculum is pretty good; the Pharm portion of second year is also pretty good. The remaining systems based classes, well, not so much. Some, like endocrine, are quite good. Others, like Cardiology, suck.

The physical diagnosis courses are the ones where you "look like you know what you're doing more than actually knowing it." The emphasis is placed on putting on a show for the camera rather than actually gaining a fundamental understanding of what the various exam procedures do and when to use them.

Clinicals:

3rd and 4th year: the clinical years are the worst. You have very little support, and clinical rotations are in extremely high demand. You have to take what you can get for the most part. Many consist of little more than the sort of job shadowing that a high school premed would do.

General Complaints:

Seems like with each passing year, the OMM dept there grows more powerful and influences the curriculum negatively. The school provided laptop is underpowered and you overpay for it quite a bit.

KCUMB​

Curriculum:
nothing was directly stated


Clinicals:
​

rotation quality will vary depending on which site you match into. We have a whole bunch of core sites, many of which are in the Midwest. Each site has it's good features and not so good features.

The quality of 3rd year rotations varies from place to place but there is no site that is terrible. I went to a site that gets the worst evaluations every year but it was close to family. I feel like my 3rd year was not bad at all. I had a couple of months that were not great, but I had several that were really good. Everyone gets an elective 3rd year and I set it up at the hospital that I worked at in undergrad. I think that the freedom of 4th year is amazing and gave me a huge edge to get a competitive residency. I did 4 audition rotations.

I have not been to KC in almost 2 years. I could have stayed and most of my friends did and liked it. I feel that almost all programs will have a month or 2 during clinicals that is not amazing (MD and DO) so I do not feel like I have missed out. Overall I am happy with my choice and did well on boards.

General Complaints:

My main complaint is the cost of tuition but it seems like KCUMB is middle of the road so maybe I shouldn't complain. I can tell you that appearances, especially on interview day, aren't necessarily accurate. While I do think I'm getting a decent education here and I'm happy with the rotation site I ended up getting, I haven't been thriving here as much as I thought I was going to. KCUMB didn't turn out to be as student-friendly as I thought it would be from interview day. Instead, I found them to be very business-like and bottom-line oriented. It seems like a bit more like an industry to me, which makes sense, since it's run by lawyers and business people, not physicians.

What's the most disturbing to me is not the attitude of the administration, but the heavy turn-over in staff in recent years. I think a lot of people aren't aware that in the last 3-4 years, the school has lost a significant amount of professors and dept heads, some of which were very good teachers. We even just recently lost our dean. Over this time, the vacancies were replaces by newbies and/or outsourced. I think it says a lot about the working environment of a company when a whole bunch of people just take off for no reason in a short period of time. It concerns me because it can really mess up the curriculum and impact the education of the students.

Sometimes admin seem a little slow to get certain things posted, or they seem unaware of what 1st/2nd years are doing and or going through.....

The fact that OMT/ Pathology/ Anatomy and Final Exam all fall within 3 days..... 😱

​

 

[Krazykritter]

DMU-09er here...

I have to say in the above post where you quoted someone else about DMU rotations I have heard the same complaint from a VERY FEW people in my class. Also, if you look at other SDN topics for allopathic & osteopathic students alike, you will see that many people have the occasional rotation that is more shadowing than actual patient care experience.

Although it is true that the DMU clinical years have little support from the clinical affairs dept, it is mostly b/c they are drastically understaffed. Currently, there are only 3 people that have to schedule at least 2 classes (of 200 people each). I know the administration is aware of this issue, but I don't know if there are any plans to hire anyone else.

IMO, you are going to have plenty of people at any school with very few required rotations during your 4th year that think they are left in the dark. Of course it is easier to schedule required rotations. However, with very few requirements in the 4th year leaves your schedule wide open to do as many sub-I's/audition rotations as you can fit in before interview season is over at programs you are considering for residency. This time is absolutely INVALUABLE if you are applying to a competitive specialty in either the DO or MD world.

 

[Jamers]

It personally hasn't held me back. I call up the rotation I want to go to, fill out the application and let the school know, the end.

DMU-09er here...

I have to say in the above post where you quoted someone else about DMU rotations I have heard the same complaint from a VERY FEW people in my class. Also, if you look at other SDN topics for allopathic & osteopathic students alike, you will see that many people have the occasional rotation that is more shadowing than actual patient care experience.

Although it is true that the DMU clinical years have little support from the clinical affairs dept, it is mostly b/c they are drastically understaffed. Currently, there are only 3 people that have to schedule at least 2 classes (of 200 people each). I know the administration is aware of this issue, but I don't know if there are any plans to hire anyone else.

IMO, you are going to have plenty of people at any school with very few required rotations during your 4th year that think they are left in the dark. Of course it is easier to schedule required rotations. However, with very few requirements in the 4th year leaves your schedule wide open to do as many sub-I's/audition rotations as you can fit in before interview season is over at programs you are considering for residency. This time is absolutely INVALUABLE if you are applying to a competitive specialty in either the DO or MD world.

 

[Tenacious DO]

It personally hasn't held me back. I call up the rotation I want to go to, fill out the application and let the school know, the end.

Agreed. I have had no problems getting solid rotations in the specialties/locations that I wanted. There have been some people that have had more difficulties scheduling rotations, but that is life.

The only "Shadowing-Type" rotations I had were in Radiology & ENT. They were great rotations, but not much for a 3rd yr student to actually do in those 2.

No complaints

 

[DaBlackRose]

So how much do you think does the administration tend to hold people back? I mean if i went to KCUMB and the administration or quick prof turn over was the only negative would it be worth it? Is it more important to be close with your fellow students or to have administrative help?

And does 3 extra 'blocks' of rotations (@ DMU) before the COMLEX II really help that much or does it make it harder to study for it? I'm also going to be taking the USMLE. Anybody comment on the USMLE? What about rotations only in iowa? What about KCUMB rotations?

Is KCUMB more expensive than DMU because the little sheets were similar that they handed out at the interview but i'm unsure if that's really true...

help!

 

[Krazykritter]

So how much do you think does the administration tend to hold people back? I mean if i went to KCUMB and the administration or quick prof turn over was the only negative would it be worth it? Is it more important to be close with your fellow students or to have administrative help?

And does 3 extra 'blocks' of rotations (@ DMU) before the COMLEX II really help that much or does it make it harder to study for it? I'm also going to be taking the USMLE. Anybody comment on the USMLE? What about rotations only in iowa? What about KCUMB rotations?

Is KCUMB more expensive than DMU because the little sheets were similar that they handed out at the interview but i'm unsure if that's really true...

help!

You really only need about 2 weeks (at the very max) to study & do well on Step II if you pay attention & take an active role in your learning during 3rd year. I studied for about 1.5 weeks (probably 4 hours per day) & took both COMLEX & USMLE in that period of time & easily surpassed my Step I scores. To be honest, you will probably do as well as you are capable of doing with either 3rd year schedule.

 

[Dr. Ditka]

You really only need about 2 weeks (at the very max) to study & do well on Step II if you pay attention & take an active role in your learning during 3rd year. I studied for about 1.5 weeks (probably 4 hours per day) & took both COMLEX & USMLE in that period of time & easily surpassed my Step I scores. To be honest, you will probably do as well as you are capable of doing with either 3rd year schedule.

The debate about how long it takes to study for USMLE and COMLEX is up to the individual. I personally studied all 3rd year but took 4 weeks of studying 6-8 hours a day before I took step II. At KCUMB they give you a month to study for it. You don't have to have a month to study to do well, but I am glad I had it.
Also, you can be as close to your classmates as you want to be at any school I would think. I lived next to the plaza in KC and it was a great place to live. There are always people going out and sports to be played with classmates if you want. Don't feel like you have to live at CT if you come to KC because many people don't live there. It was not even on my radar to stay there.
Lastly, this decision seems like a huge one, but I think that DMU and KCUMB would both provide an excellent education. Get the coin flip app on your iphone and go for it.

 

[DaBlackRose]

Okay. I have only one more question...

Can someone from both schools talk about the quality of the faculty?

I called each school, but of course they say their teachers are fantastic. So that didn't help very much.

I have heard about the path guy from KCUMB and supposedly the biochem guy from DMU... both are supposed to be awesome.

any other input? I heard that KCUMB has been having a high turnover rate.

 

[Terpskins99]

pm me for specifics of KCUMB's faculty.

 

[spicedmanna]

The instruction seems adequate. Most of medical school is a do-it-yourself thing, anyway. You basically have to teach yourself. My experience is that most medical school instructors I've had are going to simply read off of their overly-wordy (or in some cases, the opposite problem) slides and often test on minutia that are not clinically nor board-relevant. It's rare to actually receive good instruction and to have good test questions, but it happens occasionally. Not blaming anyone here. I think it's just the state of medical education in general.

I used to think that I was learning pharm pretty well (we do have one good professor, but he doesn't teach enough, in my opinion), but when I attended the Kaplan pharm review classes, I was completely knocked out by how much I wasn't actually being taught in school. Seriously, I felt the lights finally come on and was learning pharm for the first time in two years. Everything began to make sense, as you approach it from the ground up and actually learn the fundamental concepts properly. I realized that I was missing a whole lot of important pieces. I realized I actually LIKED learning about medicine, an experience I hadn't had very much in the past two years. I felt challenged to think and the questions asked were really thought-provoking and elegant questions that truly tested knowledge. If I got them wrong, I didn't feel bad. That's good instruction. The lectures I've had at KCUMB, for the most part, don't hold a candle to the 24 hrs of Kaplan pharm review. I realized that I had been simply memorizing drugs this whole time instead of truly learning about them and appreciating them. My experience is the same for Biochem. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but that's been my general experience.

Recently, I've been thinking that my experiences might be due to my not doing well with the curriculum. I thought it was going to be a neat curriculum when I first started, but then I kept feeling lost each section. I mean I'd pick up things here and there, knowing enough for tests, but mostly the information was presented in a manner that was more arbitrary and scattered than I liked. It was hard for me to put the pieces together. I mean I did well in classes and such, but I rarely felt like I was learning anything for real. Also, while I appreciate that it is a dynamic curriculum, I don't like how things can change at the drop of a hat. I do better w/ more stability. Maybe I would have done better and felt better w/ a traditional curriculum, I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently when I start rotations and have a chance to compare myself w/ peers. We'll see.

Anyway, it might be a good idea to at least ponder which type of curriculum you think you'd fair best with.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The instruction seems adequate. Most of medical school is a do-it-yourself thing, anyway. You basically have to teach yourself. My experience is that most medical school instructors I've had are going to simply read off of their overly-wordy (or in some cases, the opposite problem) slides and often test on minutia that are not clinically nor board-relevant. It's rare to actually receive good instruction and to have good test questions, but it happens occasionally. Not blaming anyone here. I think it's just the state of medical education in general.

I think it's the state of post-secondary American education in general. Most of my prereq undergrad classes were exactly like this, and while I did well in them I was amazed to find out how much I hadn't learned yet when I took the Kaplan MCAT review class.

 

[DiverDoc]

The instruction seems adequate. Most of medical school is a do-it-yourself thing, anyway. You basically have to teach yourself. My experience is that most medical school instructors I've had are going to simply read off of their overly-wordy (or in some cases, the opposite problem) slides and often test on minutia that are not clinically nor board-relevant. It's rare to actually receive good instruction and to have good test questions, but it happens occasionally. Not blaming anyone here. I think it's just the state of medical education in general.

I used to think that I was learning pharm pretty well (we do have one good professor, but he doesn't teach enough, in my opinion), but when I attended the Kaplan pharm review classes, I was completely knocked out by how much I wasn't actually being taught in school. Seriously, I felt the lights finally come on and was learning pharm for the first time in two years. Everything began to make sense, as you approach it from the ground up and actually learn the fundamental concepts properly. I realized that I was missing a whole lot of important pieces. I realized I actually LIKED learning about medicine, an experience I hadn't had very much in the past two years. I felt challenged to think and the questions asked were really thought-provoking and elegant questions that truly tested knowledge. If I got them wrong, I didn't feel bad. That's good instruction. The lectures I've had at KCUMB, for the most part, don't hold a candle to the 24 hrs of Kaplan pharm review. I realized that I had been simply memorizing drugs this whole time instead of truly learning about them and appreciating them. My experience is the same for Biochem. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but that's been my general experience.

Recently, I've been thinking that my experiences might be due to my not doing well with the curriculum. I thought it was going to be a neat curriculum when I first started, but then I kept feeling lost each section. I mean I'd pick up things here and there, knowing enough for tests, but mostly the information was presented in a manner that was more arbitrary and scattered than I liked. It was hard for me to put the pieces together. I mean I did well in classes and such, but I rarely felt like I was learning anything for real. Also, while I appreciate that it is a dynamic curriculum, I don't like how things can change at the drop of a hat. I do better w/ more stability. Maybe I would have done better and felt better w/ a traditional curriculum, I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently when I start rotations and have a chance to compare myself w/ peers. We'll see.

Anyway, it might be a good idea to at least ponder which type of curriculum you think you'd fair best with.

From another KCUMB med-student, the curriculum is nice ( couldnt imagine doing the traditional ) but I too feel like I am memorizing a great deal of information but understanding and really learning very little. Whether that is that due to the pace of medical school or the unique curriculum here I cannot say. Im doing really good with classes, but after a section is over and I start another one I look back and ask my self what I really learned and will remember long-term, and its not that much info sadly. For example we had about 13 different lectures on arthritis (RA, Ankylosing Spond. Osteo ect..) and I couldnt tell you the difference hardley without looking in a book.

 

[DaBlackRose]

wow. all of that is really less than inspiring you guys 😛 That puts a damper on things for sure.

*sigh* i guess it can't be everything we want it to be.

I feel the ticking of the clock on this decision. Any other comments before decision time (Monday)?

Any DMU people?

 

[Medicinewarrior]

wow. all of that is really less than inspiring you guys 😛 That puts a damper on things for sure.

*sigh* i guess it can't be everything we want it to be.

I feel the ticking of the clock on this decision. Any other comments before decision time (Monday)?

Any DMU people?

i had to choose between dmu and kcumb. It ultimately came down to choosing dmu based on more safe location/cleaner city, amazing wellness center, copious study areas/resources, and no required dress code/attendance.

The fact that dmu has been number 1 in the country for OMM subsection of the comlex board exam for the last 18 years also aided my decision a bit.

 

[Jamers]

This is the curse of being a human and has nothing to do with the medical school you select. You forget nearly everything you have "learned" within minutes of "learning" it. This is why we have specialists since the only way to really master and learn something is to constantly use it every day of your life. As a third year I look back and remember what a professor once told me that makes more and more sense every day, "You will forget 90% of what you learned in medical school and of the 10% you remember you will only use 2% of it." Things will get easier and you will remember more and more after each year.

To Blackrose, I don't have anything more to tell you. You need to base the selection on what you want, where you want to live and what you want for your future. Nothing anyone will tell you here is going to make a massive difference in this; at least it won't if you are being honest with yourself.

From another KCUMB med-student, the curriculum is nice ( couldnt imagine doing the traditional ) but I too feel like I am memorizing a great deal of information but understanding and really learning very little. Whether that is that due to the pace of medical school or the unique curriculum here I cannot say. Im doing really good with classes, but after a section is over and I start another one I look back and ask my self what I really learned and will remember long-term, and its not that much info sadly. For example we had about 13 different lectures on arthritis (RA, Ankylosing Spond. Osteo ect..) and I couldnt tell you the difference hardley without looking in a book.

 

[Terpskins99]

wow. all of that is really less than inspiring you guys 😛 That puts a damper on things for sure.

*sigh* i guess it can't be everything we want it to be.

I feel the ticking of the clock on this decision. Any other comments before decision time (Monday)?

Any DMU people?

We're just trying to be very honest and provide you (and others) as much information as possible to make a well informed decision.

Frankly, I would be leery of anyone that only waxed poetic about their program. To make your decision a little more difficult, one of my friends at KCUMB turned down an acceptance to DMU-COM. And she was from Iowa. 🙄

 

[DaBlackRose]

So i've gotten a few curious posters who wondered what I decided on. And thank you everyone who gave me information. It has been very helpful.

But I decided on the ultimate cop-out. >.< I went ahead and paid DMU's money (the $500 non-refundable deposit) to buy an extra two weeks to decide (march 16th).

I even went back to Des Moines yesterday to get a better feel for the students on campus and the living situations and whatnot. In the end, it really didn't help me. I got on the waitlist for a 2-bed 3000 Grand apt at my mom's request (they were really big!). The admin was still nice and the students seemed like regular kids in jeans, tshirts & white coats. Nobody talked to me though, which i was a little sad about. (maybe they were just busy? Maybe I'm scary?) The 'community' aspect about DMU seems to be mostly created by the admin as opposed to by the students. Dunno if that's good or not.

I am hoping to go down to Kansas City next to make a comparison, because i don't have an extra $2,000 in my bank (due march 16th). So if i pay that, I'm going there. I'll let everyone know my final decision when it happens.


In the meantime, I've become really sick of this whole decision thing, and kinda just want it over. I've pretty much decided I don't have enough info to make a good one.. so i began procrastinating with youtube. I found DMU's promotional videos. They seem informational if anyone is looking. But then I typed in KCUMB... and because i'm a big nerd, I decided these were the best thing ever. I want to be friends with these people! So I think i'm leaning toward KCUMB... (did i almost pick a med school based on youtube presence? I might have!)

Check em out:
(warning these are extremely cheesy and nerdy)

Facebook Addiction on Campus

DO vs. MD (like PC vs. Mac)

Living in Century Towers (joke)


(ps- i would never pick a med school based on youtube. Tho i wish i could)

 

[Jamers]

What about the DMU guitar hero video????????????? Come on!

I don't think I would talk to you if I didn't know you unless you were wearing a sign that said "please talk to me."

So i've gotten a few curious posters who wondered what I decided on. And thank you everyone who gave me information. It has been very helpful.

But I decided on the ultimate cop-out. >.< I went ahead and paid DMU's money (the $500 non-refundable deposit) to buy an extra two weeks to decide (march 16th).

I even went back to Des Moines yesterday to get a better feel for the students on campus and the living situations and whatnot. In the end, it really didn't help me. I got on the waitlist for a 2-bed 3000 Grand apt at my mom's request (they were really big!). The admin was still nice and the students seemed like regular kids in jeans, tshirts & white coats. Nobody talked to me though, which i was a little sad about. (maybe they were just busy? Maybe I'm scary?) The 'community' aspect about DMU seems to be mostly created by the admin as opposed to by the students. Dunno if that's good or not.

I am hoping to go down to Kansas City next to make a comparison, because i don't have an extra $2,000 in my bank (due march 16th). So if i pay that, I'm going there. I'll let everyone know my final decision when it happens.


In the meantime, I've become really sick of this whole decision thing, and kinda just want it over. I've pretty much decided I don't have enough info to make a good one.. so i began procrastinating with youtube. I found DMU's promotional videos. They seem informational if anyone is looking. But then I typed in KCUMB... and because i'm a big nerd, I decided these were the best thing ever. I want to be friends with these people! So I think i'm leaning toward KCUMB... (did i almost pick a med school based on youtube presence? I might have!)

Check em out:
(warning these are extremely cheesy and nerdy)

Facebook Addiction on Campus

DO vs. MD (like PC vs. Mac)

Living in Century Towers (joke)


(ps- i would never pick a med school based on youtube. Tho i wish i could)

 

[DiverDoc]

There are new videos... Follies (med school prom) was last week.


Thanks for your post Jamers. It was oddly comforting. The last week we covered nearly everything that either 1) causes diarrhea or 2) abdominal pain. The list is long and I have come to the conclusion that memorizing a differential dx. for either 1 or 2 is impossible.

 

[Jadyn21]

I dunno about the other DO schools, but our school just started enforcing the rule that the Doc's who are grading us aren't allowed to talk at all during OMM practical exams.

This is the video that makes fun of this rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0a9AymFff0


Black Rose if you need answers to some questions PM me. I am a 2nd yr at KCUMB.

 

[Jamers]

I dunno about the other DO schools, but our school just started enforcing the rule that the Doc's who are grading us aren't allowed to talk at all during OMM practical exams.

This is the video that makes fun of this rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0a9AymFff0


Black Rose if you need answers to some questions PM me. I am a 2nd yr at KCUMB.

hahha, our one doc would give a very loud grunt when we were doing something wrong. Sometimes you would do the wrong technique on purpose just to hear it haaha.

 

[jbone]

hahha, our one doc would give a very loud grunt when we were doing something wrong. Sometimes you would do the wrong technique on purpose just to hear it haaha.

Freakin classic video!

Where would I be without the grunter? Good times....good times

 

[Jamers]

Freakin classic video!

Where would I be without the grunter? Good times....good times

I am going to bend you over...😍

crap...supposed to be a private message....



Can anyone find the DMU Guitar Hero video?? That one was pretty funny. There was another one that was funny too but I can't remember the names of those. Def. nothing like what I just saw from KCUMB but funny none-the-less.

 

[LovelyRita]

I went to KCUMB, have good friends that went to DMU. We're all super smart 😉

Go to the less expensive one. Seriously.

Addendum: lived in Century Towers, had a blast. We were the first class there.

 

[DaBlackRose]

hello everyone and thank you for helping me!

It was a really agonizingly close call, but in the end I decided on KCUMB. I think the systems-based curriculum is a better way to go. I also like more flexibility in rotations (aka not being required to stay in Iowa for 3rd year). In the end, none of the other factors were as important. Though I am sad to see the international opportunties at DMU go, I am happy to join the KCUMB class of 2013 at Century Towers!!!

w00t!!

Good luck to everyone on your medical endeavors.

 

[spicedmanna]

hello everyone and thank you for helping me!

It was a really agonizingly close call, but in the end I decided on KCUMB. I think the systems-based curriculum is a better way to go. I also like more flexibility in rotations (aka not being required to stay in Iowa for 3rd year). In the end, none of the other factors were as important. Though I am sad to see the international opportunties at DMU go, I am happy to join the KCUMB class of 2013 at Century Towers!!!

w00t!!

Good luck to everyone on your medical endeavors.

Well then, welcome, Newbie. 😀

 

[Dr. Ditka]

hello everyone and thank you for helping me!

It was a really agonizingly close call, but in the end I decided on KCUMB. I think the systems-based curriculum is a better way to go. I also like more flexibility in rotations (aka not being required to stay in Iowa for 3rd year). In the end, none of the other factors were as important. Though I am sad to see the international opportunties at DMU go, I am happy to join the KCUMB class of 2013 at Century Towers!!!

w00t!!

Good luck to everyone on your medical endeavors.

Congrats on your decision. I think you will like.

 

[LovelyRita]

hello everyone and thank you for helping me!

It was a really agonizingly close call, but in the end I decided on KCUMB. I think the systems-based curriculum is a better way to go. I also like more flexibility in rotations (aka not being required to stay in Iowa for 3rd year). In the end, none of the other factors were as important. Though I am sad to see the international opportunties at DMU go, I am happy to join the KCUMB class of 2013 at Century Towers!!!

w00t!!

Good luck to everyone on your medical endeavors.

Strong work 👍 make us proud.

 

[docmd2010]

i'm a kcumb student.

i would choose kcumb over dmu for the following reasons:

1)You're in a major city opposed to Des Moines which is in the middle of nowhere. KC is actually an awesome city that has a lot to offer, really cool bars (power light district, westport, plaza), and good restaurants

2) KCUMB's match list is, in my opinion, the best out of the d.o. schools. our school puts people everywhere from johns hopkins to mayo to cleveland clinic all the way from neurosurgery to family medicine

3) Good balance of education: not an overwhelming amount of OMM so that it compromises class-time of the other basic sciences stuff but enough of it that you can learn it really well if you choose to.

4) KCUMB's first two years are very clinically oriented. our students look like rock stars on rotations, rotations.

5) our class atmosphere is awesome. we all help each other out.

6) people in our class our cool, and we some got some fly honies too

7) good mix between married people and singles-choose your own mix to hang out with

8)New construction of buildings

9) Pathology at our school is phenomenal. Dr. Friedlander is world reknowned, you'll know your path for the boards and for uh life.

Here a few cons that may be important to some but didn't really bother me that much:

1) tuition is pretty high (gonna be in debt anyway why not a little more?)

2) In a pretty bad area

3) Not as much OMM emphasis

 

[BabyKangaroo]

I guess since the OP made their decision, this post is moot. But I will chime in. DMU:
Great global health program with lots of international opportunities. They are growing too.

Cheaper tuition (This is with a PDA, Laptop, and health/wellness center factored in)

Health/wellness center is AMAZING. Indoor track, bball gym, weights, spinning class etc.

For what it's worth, Des Moines was rated one of the top ten mid-sized metro areas to live in the U.S. 2009 (about 500K people live there)

Residencies landed are great. There are DMU folks at Mayo, cleve clinic I think, California schools, etc.

Good OMM emphasis. They have a great program so I'm told.

Fourth-year rotations can be scheduled anywhere in the nation. They are very helpful in setting them up too (so I have heard)

They have a neat surgical skills lab that gives students those skills before rotations. There are underground tunnels that connect buildings to avoid harsh winters when needed. Their patient sim. is very detailed and other med. schools model theirs after DMU.

Students do well on boards. There is a Kaplan course factored into tuition as well.

Cons?
NONE 🙂 J/K I would say Iowa/midwest in general is a con b/c I am from the mountains. But each area has its pros!

That's all for now. I will have a better understanding when I am attending in the fall! (BTW, KCUMB was my 2nd choice. I chose DMU instead)

good luck all

 

[DiverDoc]

i'm a kcumb student.

i would choose kcumb over dmu for the following reasons:

1)You're in a major city opposed to Des Moines which is in the middle of nowhere. KC is actually an awesome city that has a lot to offer, really cool bars (power light district, westport, plaza), and good restaurants

2) KCUMB's match list is, in my opinion, the best out of the d.o. schools. our school puts people everywhere from johns hopkins to mayo to cleveland clinic all the way from neurosurgery to family medicine

3) Good balance of education: not an overwhelming amount of OMM so that it compromises class-time of the other basic sciences stuff but enough of it that you can learn it really well if you choose to.

4) KCUMB's first two years are very clinically oriented. our students look like rock stars on rotations, rotations.

5) our class atmosphere is awesome. we all help each other out.

6) people in our class our cool, and we some got some fly honies too

7) good mix between married people and singles-choose your own mix to hang out with

8)New construction of buildings

9) Pathology at our school is phenomenal. Dr. Friedlander is world reknowned, you'll know your path for the boards and for uh life.

Here a few cons that may be important to some but didn't really bother me that much:

1) tuition is pretty high (gonna be in debt anyway why not a little more?)

2) In a pretty bad area

3) Not as much OMM emphasis

# 3 on your Con list has changed since you have left campus...... They really upped (is that a word ?) the ante on the OMT practicals.

 

[WDeagle]

I wouldnt say OMT is de-emphasized as much as it just isnt taught in a very logical way. Your pretty much on you own to learn OMT. Which was good back when practicals were pass/fail(2 years ago) but kind of annoying now. Thats why OMT is hard now. Obviously, the OMT facies only make it harder. Kind of hard to learn OMT in a lab with 130+ people. So if your serious about OMT i would recommend elsewhere. Other than that i think KCUMB is a pretty good school.

 

[Murphy Brown]

Ya'll are making me nervous with all the talk of KCUMB's neighborhood. I'm applying this summer and KCUMB was one of my top choices because of it's genesis curriculum, but safety is very important to me. I was the victim of a violent crime in college and I'm curious to know how bad it really is at KCUMB? If I got accepted, I'd most likely live at Century Towers and I know that's a gated community so that has to be safe, right? Is the campus crime-ridden? What about around town, grocery stores and stuff?

 

[Terpskins99]

Ya'll are making me nervous with all the talk of KCUMB's neighborhood. I'm applying this summer and KCUMB was one of my top choices because of it's genesis curriculum, but safety is very important to me. I was the victim of a violent crime in college and I'm curious to know how bad it really is at KCUMB? If I got accepted, I'd most likely live at Century Towers and I know that's a gated community so that has to be safe, right? Is the campus crime-ridden? What about around town, grocery stores and stuff?

Its not that bad. The only issues that I heard about during my few years in Kansas City were a couple people's cars getting broken into and their stero stolen. You will be totally safe at CT, and while the grocery shops in the immediate viscinity aren't the greatest, there are plenty of grocery stores that are in considerably nicer areas not too far from campus. If you have a car, you should be fine. I always picked up groceries on my way back from studying at the plaza.

During the daytime, you would be fine. There is this 7-11 between the school and CT, where there are always a couple of shady folks hanging around. Usually they mind their own business, but I know a couple of female students that were approached by some guy asking for their number. Anyhow, students have no reservation about running to the 7-11 to pick up snacks/sodas in between class (haha, just watch out for incoming traffic).

I do not recommend venturing out at night alone. Plenty of students do this anyhow, but I just don't think its very safe for a female student to do. The night always brings about more of the shady characters to independence ave. If you think you'll be on campus late, then I recommend taking your car to school (yes, even from CT) so that you won't have to walk for very long.

 

[spicedmanna]

I wouldnt say OMT is de-emphasized as much as it just isnt taught in a very logical way. Your pretty much on you own to learn OMT.

Really, if I could sum up all the negatives relative to the curriculum, not just OMT, that I've experienced in the past two years, it would amount to what you said above.

Which was good back when practicals were pass/fail(2 years ago) but kind of annoying now. Thats why OMT is hard now. Obviously, the OMT facies only make it harder. Kind of hard to learn OMT in a lab with 130+ people. So if your serious about OMT i would recommend elsewhere.

I've had similar experiences and tend to agree w/ your assessment. With OMT, you have to put in a lot of individual time to make it work. We end up helping and teaching each other what we need to know. I sure hope it's going to be enough for the boards.

 

[WDeagle]

People tend to exaggerate how bad the area is. Its definately a very low income area but its not extreme ghetto either. Ive lived in much worse places. If you commute you wont have any trouble with it. The only problem is the walk from CT to campus which isnt usually a problem during the daytime. If i was a girl i would probably drive to campus at night(if i needed to be there at night for some reason). Honestly im more worried about crossing the street in traffic than i am about getting robbed or anything.

 

[spicedmanna]

People tend to exaggerate how bad the area is. Its definately a very low income area but its not extreme ghetto either. Ive lived in much worse places. If you commute you wont have any trouble with it. The only problem is the walk from CT to campus which isnt usually a problem during the daytime. If i was a girl i would probably drive to campus at night(if i needed to be there at night for some reason). Honestly im more worried about crossing the street in traffic than i am about getting robbed or anything.

Yeah, it's not totally horrible, but I wouldn't call it safe, either. It might be a greater shock to you, if you've never lived in an inner city environment before, but since I've lived in worse places, I find it rather mild in comparison. Still, I wouldn't go venturing out w/o friends in tow, particularly when it's late at night. There are questionable elements about. Students have been attacked in the past and folks have been robbed. It's not at all prevalent, but it does happen.

The most striking part for me, though, is that the immediate area is almost completely dead. It's a bit of a sore spot in the city, but if you have a car, then you'll be fine, as there are lots of awesome areas to hang out, just right outside of the immediate area, such as North Kansas City, Westport, the Plaza, etc.

 

[spicedmanna]

There is this 7-11 between the school and CT, where there are always a couple of shady folks hanging around.

Hahaha...yeah, we call that place, affectionately, "the stab-and-grab." But, yeah, that 7-11 is quite handy. Good source for morning coffee, the occasional snack, and sometimes even a sandwich for lunch.