DMU vs. KCUMB-analyzed

[Murphy Brown]

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So is the campus itself secure then? And is Century Towers a safe place? I don't want to have to worry when walking to my car at night or from my car to my apartment. I mean, I know any place can have crime and you have to be sensible and all that, but since I've already been through this once, I guess I'm hyper sensitive to dangerous situations.

And while I'm at it, if you guys wouldn't mind me asking, does KCUMB have mandatory class attendance? Are the lectures online? And is there reason to be on campus at night a lot?

 

[WDeagle]

So is the campus itself secure then? And is Century Towers a safe place? I don't want to have to worry when walking to my car at night or from my car to my apartment. I mean, I know any place can have crime and you have to be sensible and all that, but since I've already been through this once, I guess I'm hyper sensitive to dangerous situations.

And while I'm at it, if you guys wouldn't mind me asking, does KCUMB have mandatory class attendance? Are the lectures online? And is there reason to be on campus at night a lot?

CT is pretty safe, unless your afraid of dogs. Its gated and there is a security guard at night. Class attendance is technically "mandatory" but attendance isnt taken. Its never been an issue to not attend class. About 1/3 of the class always goes to class, 1/3 is variable, and 1/3 never goes to class. There are narrated powerpoints online along with lecture mp3's. Also, the library carries recorded dvd's with the lecture recorded. This is something curriculum does really well. They offer alot of ways to watch/re-watch lectures outside of class. There isnt really any reasons to be on campus late at night.

 

[Terpskins99]

So is the campus itself secure then? And is Century Towers a safe place? I don't want to have to worry when walking to my car at night or from my car to my apartment. I mean, I know any place can have crime and you have to be sensible and all that, but since I've already been through this once, I guess I'm hyper sensitive to dangerous situations.

And while I'm at it, if you guys wouldn't mind me asking, does KCUMB have mandatory class attendance? Are the lectures online? And is there reason to be on campus at night a lot?

There is almost always a manned security vehicle driving around the campus parking lots.

However, the campus itself is open for anyone to walk through. And at night, I have seen a few random stragglers just meander through the middle of campus.

Murphy, I don't mean this in a bad way, but I don't know if KCUMB would be the best place for you. Not that I think anything would ever happen to you if you came here, but I kind of doubt you would ever truly feel "safe" in this environment. Your overall comfort level will definitely have an effect on your ability to concentrate and succeed in class. If you believe the environment i going to be that much of a distraction, then you would probably be better off with a school in a less urban location.

 

[geh926]

Sorry to revive an ancient thread. Have 2 days to decide between one of these schools. 😱 If anybody has some updated information on either DMU/KCUMB and their experience, feedback, etc. I would appreciate it so so much! Thanks. 🙂

 

[meliora27]

KCUMB is changing the "Genesis Curriculum" starting next year. It will no longer be a systems based curriculum.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

KCUMB is changing the "Genesis Curriculum" starting next year. It will no longer be a systems based curriculum.

I thought it's still going to be systems-based but with new modifications?


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[Jumpstartmy5HT]

Sorry to revive an ancient thread. Have 2 days to decide between one of these schools. 😱 If anybody has some updated information on either DMU/KCUMB and their experience, feedback, etc. I would appreciate it so so much! Thanks. 🙂

Tell us a little about you and what you like. Include lifestyle, study habits, hobbies, etc.


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[meliora27]

I thought it's still going to be systems-based but with new modifications?

I just finished my third year at KCUMB so I haven't been on campus for a while but from what I understood, M1 would be more of a basic science curriculum and M2 would be more clinical. I think they're trying to incorporate more independent learning so you have less time passively sitting in the classroom having someone lecture to you.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

The more independent learning aspect is nice. But it's not so nice if it involves completely revamping an already successful curriculum.

If I remember correctly, a couple of months ago one of the KCUMB admissions administrators commented on the class of 2018 Facebook page addressing accepted student freak outs over the rumored complete overhaul of the current curriculum. The administrator reassured the students that the curriculum will still be a systems one.

I hope she was right.



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[geh926]

The more independent learning aspect is nice. But it's not so nice if it involves completely revamping an already successful curriculum.

If I remember correctly, a couple of months ago one of the KCUMB admissions administrators commented on the class of 2018 Facebook page addressing accepted student freak outs over the rumored complete overhaul of the current curriculum. The administrator reassured the students that the curriculum will still be a systems one.

I hope she was right.

Yeah, one of the main reasons I would choose KCUMB over DMU is the systems based curriculum. So learning about the new changes and some of the comments in the KCUMB class thread really worry me.

i.e.
- If you do not get above a 70% on any exam, you go before an Honors council that will decided whether you get to continue your medical education. There is no rhyme or reason to the council, they simply decide whether you are out 42k in tuition. In example, we have a 15 point Pathology Picture exam over finals week. The exam is over probably 500 pictures, of which 15 will be selected. If you were to get a bad draw and miss 4 you could find yourself no longer in school.


- On your third year rotations, you are required to take a Shelf Exam. The shelf exam is a practice exam that you receive no grade for, but is only used to better prepare yourself for the Step 2 Board Exam. I should say, you get a grade, but it isn't recorded in your GPA. If you fail ANY shelf exam, you must retake the ENTIRE rotation in place of one of your audition rotations. For example, you are on surgery rotation. You spend 13 hours a day at the hospital. You spend another 8 sleeping. You choose to not spend your remaining 3 studying. You do not pass the Shelf Exam, but receive high marks from your preceptors. You MUST re-take the surgery rotation, in place of a 4th year audition rotation. This is HUGE. You basically lose a job interview.


- Many of the faculty are being replaced for cheaper alternatives i.e. we receive lectures from Adjunct/Assistant Faculty members rather than full time professors. This might not seem like a big deal, but the difference in education you receive will be apparent once you get here. There are good teachers, who cost more, and bad teachers, who cost less. As time goes on, there are more bad teachers because of how inexpensive they are. Moreover, faculty members literally disappear. Our last president sent an e-mail to the student body that he resigned and had moved to Florida, before even the administration knew of it. We've had other professors/deans simply not come back from Christmas vacation. We've had faculty get fired that were so beloved that students lined the hallways in his support as he was escorted off campus. All students are also required to use the Kaplan Step 1 Board program, which close to zero students in either the 2016 or 2017 class use. You have no choice in the matter, unless you want to shell out another 1k for options.


- The new curriculum that is to be taken into effect next year has not been proven to work anywhere, but Rocky Mountain Vista, where it took a school with bad Board scores up to a school with average board scores. The curriculum we had in place had successfully provided KCUMB one of the top 3 osteopathic Board scores. Moreover, we are one of the few DO schools that has far more students go into specialized medicine (about 70%) than general/family med. You are going to be Guinea pigs for a new curriculum, when the one in place (which is effective) is being replaced


-I'm not comfortable discussing my specific observations about the shake-ups and changes that have taken place over the last few months, but I'm glad to see someone posting some of the info. A few good changes have been made, so don't think they are all bad. However, things are A LOT different now than a few months ago. They are going to continue to change a lot. It's probably fair to say there is a very noticeable tension among the faculty due to their frustrations with certain changes and specific admins, and students are anxious because they don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next.



I enjoyed both schools tremendously, but KC's location appeals much more to me. However, to say these comments don't scare me a little would be lying. I really like KCUMB, I'm just not sure with some uncertainties looming over this years starting class.

 

[geh926]

I just finished my third year at KCUMB so I haven't been on campus for a while but from what I understood, M1 would be more of a basic science curriculum and M2 would be more clinical. I think they're trying to incorporate more independent learning so you have less time passively sitting in the classroom having someone lecture to you.

That description seems to align more with the traditional curriculum seen at other schools, don't you think?

Also, would you care to share your experience with rotations so far? Was it fairly easy to land your desired location? Are you happy with the quality of your training?

A search I had brought this up earlier:
-Clinical Rotations: People, people, people. This is what matters the most, regardless of what medical school you go to. There are many sites, scattered all over the country, as well as in Kansas City. They are hit and miss. Preceptors are not paid (when they are disgruntled enough with the school, you, or your peers, they will tell you this). This school places your education in the hands of your preceptor. Your education is at the discretion of your preceptor. Why? Because they volunteer to do this for CME. They are not paid faculty. This matters, because this is where you learn medicine. (There are a few in Kansas City that work for the school, but the majority are adjunct faculty which means you may have some trouble if you want to go to a program that wants letter of recommendation from full-time faculty that know you.) This is where you learn to make life and death decisions. In other words, this is where you learn to be a doctor. Now, some preceptors are great, and others are not so great. With such a large class, some are bound to have not so great preceptors. This is an awful lot of money to pay for a gamble. Worst case scenario: you realize that you got a poor clinical education in your third year and spend your fourth year making up the deficit during elective time.

It was an older post though, so I was hoping things may have improved since then.

 

[meliora27]

- On your third year rotations, you are required to take a Shelf Exam. The shelf exam is a practice exam that you receive no grade for, but is only used to better prepare yourself for the Step 2 Board Exam. I should say, you get a grade, but it isn't recorded in your GPA. If you fail ANY shelf exam, you must retake the ENTIRE rotation in place of one of your audition rotations. For example, you are on surgery rotation. You spend 13 hours a day at the hospital. You spend another 8 sleeping. You choose to not spend your remaining 3 studying. You do not pass the Shelf Exam, but receive high marks from your preceptors. You MUST re-take the surgery rotation, in place of a 4th year audition rotation. This is HUGE. You basically lose a job interview.

This is quite misleading. If you honor a shelf exam, and assuming your evaluation for the rotation is ok, you honor that rotation. So yes, you shelf exam clearly counts for a grade. On the flip side, if you get an S (pass) on a shelf but a glowing eval, guess what -- you're most likely going to just get an S (pass) on your transcript. Shelf exams are super important.

Moreover, I'm not sure how AOA residencies work, but on the ACGME (MD) side, many competitive programs set filters, that require honors in the field you're applying to. For example, many competitive IM and Surgery programs won't even look at your application because it will be filtered out if you didn't honor your IM or surgery rotation. So again, these shelf exams are quite important.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I made the decision to pick KCUMB over DMU back in October of last year, before all these rumors started circulating. I must say it is a bit scary that there are so many proposed changes to a successful program. Many of the administrators and current students have been reassuring accepted students. In terms of the remediation policy, I believe one of the current students said the administration will absolutely still work with you to get your grades up and that it's not as bleak as it sounds. But who knows.

Supposedly the new dean of KCUMB has a solid record too. He was from TCOM and then went to improve RVUCOM. Now he's going to improve things at KCUMB. Who knows what's going to happen, but KCUMB has managed to stay around this long so it is unlikely to make horrible decisions and harm its reputation.

I think if I had to make the choice again, I would still lean towards KCUMB. Kansas City seems more like my cup of tea. The whole iPad thing is awesome. I don't mind the mandatory attendance thing. The no more uniform deal is nice. I wouldn't worry too much about the grading stuff. Ideally I would aim to score above 70% and pass all shelf exams anyway, right? As for the board prep, doesn't DMU use Kaplan as well?


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[Awesome Sauceome]

Sorry to revive an ancient thread. Have 2 days to decide between one of these schools. 😱 If anybody has some updated information on either DMU/KCUMB and their experience, feedback, etc. I would appreciate it so so much! Thanks. 🙂

head over to the pre-osteo forum, I just started a thread where I have the pros and cons of both of those schools explained from previous and current students





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[geh926]

head over to the pre-osteo forum, I just started a thread where I have the pros and cons of both of those schools explained from previous and current students

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Great, thanks!

 

[dinnydindin]

From what I have heard and seen (also as someone who will be attending in the fall), the curriculum is still a systems based one albeit modified a bit.

here is a page from KCUMB's website highlighting the change

http://president.kcumb.edu/2014/05/...campaign=Hahn+Newsletter+May&utm_medium=email

From what current students are saying, is that instead of reviewing each system once through the 2 years, you will go through each system twice (once each year). The first year will have an emphasis on physiology and anatomy and the 2nd year will have an emphasis on the clinical side. I personally think this is an improvement because you'll see each system twice rather than once. Also the school year has been lengthened because they are adding a new section where they will teach how to use EMR

as far as the dress policy, its gone and the attendance policy is also gone. The new dean is also very adamant on giving ample time for board prep so thats good and everyone will be required to take both USMLE and COMLEX in the upcoming years. Also, everyone has to take kaplan's review class on the USMLE.

lets see...also everyone gets a black 64gb iPad air with Microsoft office which is nice.

 

[pathologyDO]

From what I have heard and seen (also as someone who will be attending in the fall), the curriculum is still a systems based one albeit modified a bit.

here is a page from KCUMB's website highlighting the change

http://president.kcumb.edu/2014/05/...campaign=Hahn+Newsletter+May&utm_medium=email

From what current students are saying, is that instead of reviewing each system once through the 2 years, you will go through each system twice (once each year). The first year will have an emphasis on physiology and anatomy and the 2nd year will have an emphasis on the clinical side. I personally think this is an improvement because you'll see each system twice rather than once. Also the school year has been lengthened because they are adding a new section where they will teach how to use EMR

as far as the dress policy, its gone and the attendance policy is also gone. The new dean is also very adamant on giving ample time for board prep so thats good and everyone will be required to take both USMLE and COMLEX in the upcoming years. Also, everyone has to take kaplan's review class on the USMLE.

lets see...also everyone gets a black 64gb iPad air with Microsoft office which is nice.

Current KCUMB student here. Just briefly, I want to make some distinctions. The first year will now be basic sciences, and second year will be pathology based. Like you have said, all systems will be covered twice, once each year.

The attendance policy was literally just changed a couple days ago. The new policy is that attendance will no longer be taken... But if say the dean, president, etc pass by and see 50% or less of students in the class we will no longer have lectures video recorded for us. In addition, lecturers can choose to make their lectures mandatory and ask that the lecture not be video recorded on mediasite to enforce their decision.

 

[costales]

Current KCUMB student here. Just briefly, I want to make some distinctions. The first year will now be basic sciences, and second year will be pathology based. Like you have said, all systems will be covered twice, once each year.

This is interesting. It sounds like Drs Hahn & Dubin are using the TCOM model. It's a tried-and-true model which I recommend highly.

 

[pathologyDO]

This is interesting. It sounds like Drs Hahn & Dubin are using the TCOM model. It's a tried-and-true model which I recommend highly.

Yes I think it is an interesting approach. To be honest I felt as though our first year seemed a little disorganized in the way the material was presented. We might do physiology, anatomy, biochem, and pathology on the same day. There was seemingly no order, although I'm sure there was some. However, with this new model I think they're adding some much needed structure. It's still systems based, yet is more orderly.

 

[meliora27]

For third year, depending on what core site you were at for rotations, you either took the NBME (MD) shelf exams of the NBOME (DO) shelf exams. From now on, ALL students will take the NBME (MD) shelf exams.