Do any EM programs "filter" applicants?

[Indryd]

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Specifically board scores.

I am a great applicant from a great school with honors in a sub-internship where I ran entire pods on my own (4-5 patients of random acuity) and reported directly to the attending.

I have great letters from both of the program co-directors at my school as well as the clerkship director.

I have a love of EM that becomes obvious within 5 minutes of meeting me and a great work ethic.

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Are there programs I might as well not bother with because they won't even look at my experience and letters when they see my score?

Are there programs known to take "more complete" (often codeword for low step scores in my experience) applicants and would be less likely to worry about bad board scores?

Thanks all.

 

[OncoticPressure]

Specifically board scores.

I am a great applicant from a great school with honors in a sub-internship where I ran entire pods on my own (4-5 patients of random acuity) and reported directly to the attending.

I have great letters from both of the program co-directors at my school as well as the clerkship director.

I have a love of EM that becomes obvious within 5 minutes of meeting me and a great work ethic.

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Are there programs I might as well not bother with because they won't even look at my experience and letters when they see my score?

Are there programs known to take "more complete" (often codeword for low step scores in my experience) applicants and would be less likely to worry about bad board scores?

Thanks all.

You will get screened out of places based on Step 1 score and might not match. Happened to a classmate of mine. Best to check out the NRMP Charting Outcomes for your chances and put all your cards on the table and see what turns up. Also get a good advisor who will better understand your unique situation.

 

[deleted77919]

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[gro2001]

Specifically board scores.

I am a great applicant from a great school with honors in a sub-internship where I ran entire pods on my own (4-5 patients of random acuity) and reported directly to the attending.

I have great letters from both of the program co-directors at my school as well as the clerkship director.

I have a love of EM that becomes obvious within 5 minutes of meeting me and a great work ethic.

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Are there programs I might as well not bother with because they won't even look at my experience and letters when they see my score?

Are there programs known to take "more complete" (often codeword for low step scores in my experience) applicants and would be less likely to worry about bad board scores?

Thanks all.

Most applicants have worked hard during their sub-is, have great letters, and
'a love of EM'. Also, just about everyone I met on the interview trail also had something 'unique' that they brought to the table. Somebody was a paramedic. Somebody else went to Africa to save dying babies. Many people with tons of research. Another person once cric'ed someone while jumping out of an airplane with a burning parachute. You get the picture.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but based on what you mentioned, you are an applicant with 1 red flag. Don't set yourself up for disappointment by convincing yourself that you are 'a great applicant from a great school with great letters'. You are that, but that's expected. That's baseline. You are an applicant with 1 red flag.

Having said that... People worse off have matched (me), and people with no red flags have gone unmatched.

Most programs filter applicants on whatever metric they can. There are only so many applications they can go through. Board scores is one common filter. FMG/visa status is another. Less prestigious programs in less desirable locations are less likely to be picky, of course.

But really, the process is more complex than that. There may be multiple rounds of filtering for each wave of applicants. For the first wave of invites that goes out a program may filter out anyone below a certain step score. Then, if they need a second wave, they may include people who've just passed on first try. And so on.

You will be screened from many programs based on your score. Have your application complete the day ERAS opens. Apply widely. Follow up with phone calls. Get your advisor, clerkship director, letter writers, other attending who like you call whichever program they have connections at.

Good luck!

 

[Venko]

Specifically board scores.

I am a great applicant from a great school with honors in a sub-internship where I ran entire pods on my own (4-5 patients of random acuity) and reported directly to the attending.

I have great letters from both of the program co-directors at my school as well as the clerkship director.

I have a love of EM that becomes obvious within 5 minutes of meeting me and a great work ethic.

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Are there programs I might as well not bother with because they won't even look at my experience and letters when they see my score?

Are there programs known to take "more complete" (often codeword for low step scores in my experience) applicants and would be less likely to worry about bad board scores?

Thanks all.

Are there some places who are very focused on the numbers - YES

Should you not apply somewhere because of your step 1 score - NO

Just apply to any place that you wouldn't mind going to interview and or attend residency and let them decide on whether they will invite you for an interview or not.

Work towards things you can change such as your clerkship grades, your interview skills, and leave the rest to the higher forces of the world.

If you are a great applicant from a great school a great residency will find you 🙂

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

To echo what others already said, apply EARLY and apply EVERYWHERE.

Do not try to read into and try to decide before hand who may or may not interview you. The true final answer is that you just 'never know'. Sure, you may be screened out by many programs, you might happen to normally be screened out somewhere but turns out that PD knows your PD and they talk.. and maybe you had no idea. EM is a small world.

I did not have the best Step 1 score, did slightly better on Step 2, but in no way 'knocked it out of the park'. I went to a US MD school and did two away EM rotations (no EM program at my home instiution). Five years ago now, I applied to about 40 programs and ended up with 14 interviews. I was a chief resident and recieved four awards at graduation. My enthusiasm, attitude, and interactions in the department way overtrump my purely pen and paper academic records. PDs understand this and its not always just numbers they look for; its just that numbers are easy to look at.... However, at then end of the day, board pass rate is important and everyone ties that to Step scores.

Its MUCH easier to spend a couple grand, over apply, and then cancel interviews when/if you end up with more than you can handle... than to be December and you only applied to 20 programs and have 2 interviews....

Good Luck to you.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Yes, you'll be screened out of some places.

 

[DeadCactus]

What kind of score are you looking at before being filtered out by even the top programs is unlikely? Are you looking at 5%-tile, 10%-tile, top quarter, top third, etc?

Do they filter by GPA? Class rank?

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

What kind of score are you looking at before being filtered out by even the top programs is unlikely? Are you looking at 5%-tile, 10%-tile, top quarter, top third, etc?

Do they filter by GPA? Class rank?

Impossible to determine and not worth thinking about. Nobody knows any places 'exact number'. There is no set way to screen applicants. Some programs may be more heavy on looking at steps, another on GPA, etc.

Even if we had a magic 8 ball on here and told you that X,Y,Z screen people by GPA... just because your GPA is low, I would STILL apply to that program. There still could be something about your application that catches someones eye and they interview you anyway...

There is no exact answer on this question and not worth tayloring your application over..

 

[gutonc]

Impossible to determine and not worth thinking about. Nobody knows any places 'exact number'. There is no set way to screen applicants. Some programs may be more heavy on looking at steps, another on GPA, etc.

Even if we had a magic 8 ball on here and told you that X,Y,Z screen people by GPA... just because your GPA is low, I would STILL apply to that program. There still could be something about your application that catches someones eye and they interview you anyway...

There is no exact answer on this question and not worth tayloring your application over..

QFT. The more precise answer to the question is, "yes, no, maybe, it depends, sometimes."

 

[DeadCactus]

Impossible to determine and not worth thinking about. Nobody knows any places 'exact number'. There is no set way to screen applicants. Some programs may be more heavy on looking at steps, another on GPA, etc.

Even if we had a magic 8 ball on here and told you that X,Y,Z screen people by GPA... just because your GPA is low, I would STILL apply to that program. There still could be something about your application that catches someones eye and they interview you anyway...

There is no exact answer on this question and not worth tayloring your application over..

More curiosity than anything. Just wondering at what point you can be relatively sure someone will at least look at your entire application rather than getting filtered out by a spreadsheet or whatever...

 

[gutonc]

More curiosity than anything. Just wondering at what point you can be relatively sure someone will at least look at your entire application rather than getting filtered out by a spreadsheet or whatever...

You can't. If there is a place to enter something in ERAS, PDs (and PCs) can filter by it. They can filter by the obvious things, Step scores, AOA, # of LORs, etc. But they can also filter by zip code (since you put your address in ERAS). There is no way of knowing (short of asking the PD directly) how they filter applications. And since it's an iterative process, there's no way of knowing how or when your app will (or will not) get looked at.

The best you can do in a situation like that is to have a faculty mentor call/email a PD at a program you're very interested in that either rejected you or didn't even contact you (plenty of places just ignore applications that get filtered out and don't bother to formally reject those people) and ask them to review your application in its entirety. You should save this option for a very few programs (1-3).

 

[Pure Anergy]

It seems like who you know is a lot more important for residency apps than it is for med school apps. When you join a specialty, you are joining a much smaller group of people, and the EM academic leaders all know each other. So I agree with the people who suggested asking well-connected faculty at your school to make calls on your behalf. You can make calls on your own behalf too if there are some programs you really want to interview at. I also agree that you don't know who will give you a chance until you send out your apps. There is a lot of subjectivity in the system just like there is for med school apps. So try to strengthen your app as much as possible, apply broadly, and make use of your connections. Good luck!

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

It seems like who you know is a lot more important for residency apps than it is for med school apps. When you join a specialty, you are joining a much smaller group of people, and the EM academic leaders all know each other. So I agree with the people who suggested asking well-connected faculty at your school to make calls on your behalf. You can make calls on your own behalf too if there are some programs you really want to interview at. I also agree that you don't know who will give you a chance until you send out your apps. There is a lot of subjectivity in the system just like there is for med school apps. So try to strengthen your app as much as possible, apply broadly, and make use of your connections. Good luck!

When I applied, there was one program far from my home area that was near some of my distant family. I emailed the coordinator there to let them know I did have family ties to the area, visit the area frequently, and was really interested in interviewing there..

I recieved a 'sorry, not interested' in like less than 10 minutes! I was quite shocked...

That was 5 years ago now; I was not a stellar applicant, but I did end up with about 14 interviews and that particular place was by no means an all star joint nor is it a desirable place to live. I rarely see it mentioned on here. I dont think I would have went there, but would have liked to considered it.

Reason for this post, is you just dont ever know what goes through the PDs mind when deciding who to interview and who not to....

 

[Tiger10]

When I applied, there was one program far from my home area that was near some of my distant family. I emailed the coordinator there to let them know I did have family ties to the area, visit the area frequently, and was really interested in interviewing there..

I recieved a 'sorry, not interested' in like less than 10 minutes! I was quite shocked...

That was 5 years ago now; I was not a stellar applicant, but I did end up with about 14 interviews and that particular place was by no means an all star joint nor is it a desirable place to live. I rarely see it mentioned on here. I dont think I would have went there, but would have liked to considered it.

Reason for this post, is you just dont ever know what goes through the PDs mind when deciding who to interview and who not to....

I had the opposite experience. There were 2 programs for me that were geographically unrelated to my med school and home address but were close to family and where I grew up. I hadn't heard from either program by November and figured I had nothing to lose so I sent the coordinators an email. I essentially asked if they knew when I could expect to hear something about the status of my application with an "oh by the way I have family nearby and would love to eventually practice in the region" blurb. Both responded within 2-3 days with invites. I don't know where I ended upon their match lists, but I got interviews from both and if nothing else I got to spend a weekend with my family.

 

[Medic2MD10821]

Most applicants have worked hard during their sub-is, have great letters, and
'a love of EM'. Also, just about everyone I met on the interview trail also had something 'unique' that they brought to the table. Somebody was a paramedic. Somebody else went to Africa to save dying babies. Many people with tons of research. Another person once cric'ed someone while jumping out of an airplane with a burning parachute. You get the picture.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but based on what you mentioned, you are an applicant with 1 red flag. Don't set yourself up for disappointment by convincing yourself that you are 'a great applicant from a great school with great letters'. You are that, but that's expected. That's baseline. You are an applicant with 1 red flag.

Having said that... People worse off have matched (me), and people with no red flags have gone unmatched.

Most programs filter applicants on whatever metric they can. There are only so many applications they can go through. Board scores is one common filter. FMG/visa status is another. Less prestigious programs in less desirable locations are less likely to be picky, of course.

But really, the process is more complex than that. There may be multiple rounds of filtering for each wave of applicants. For the first wave of invites that goes out a program may filter out anyone below a certain step score. Then, if they need a second wave, they may include people who've just passed on first try. And so on.

You will be screened from many programs based on your score. Have your application complete the day ERAS opens. Apply widely. Follow up with phone calls. Get your advisor, clerkship director, letter writers, other attending who like you call whichever program they have connections at.

Good luck!

So this sparked two questions. First do you think in general EM residency programs view prior medical school experience like working as a Paramedic (in the ER or on the street) or ED RN as a plus? Or more of a yea thats cool but doesn't really matter.

And do you think that a lot of EM programs filter out applicants based upon where they went to medical school? i.e M.D/D.O/US IMG...?

 

[sylvanthus]

From what I understand, having prior experience in the ED or in the field is considered a plus. It shows that you know a bit about emergency medicine, are dedicated to the specialty, and have some idea of what you are getting into. But, I could be clueless.

 

[tkim]

So this sparked two questions. First do you think in general EM residency programs view prior medical school experience like working as a Paramedic (in the ER or on the street) or ED RN as a plus? Or more of a yea thats cool but doesn't really matter.

More of the latter, and sometimes a liability.

I had 12 years of medic experience before med school. The question I got from some of the programs was - you've been a medic for a long time - are you still 'trainable' - or are you going to rest on your street experience all through residency? I got the impression that other residents with EMS/prior EM experience had come before and turned them off with a BTDT attitude.

And do you think that a lot of EM programs filter out applicants based upon where they went to medical school? i.e M.D/D.O/US IMG...?

Absolutely.

 

[sylvanthus]

I'm assuming this is program dependent and you still got a residency position, so some program must have considered it to either be a plus or at least not a negative.

 

[tkim]

I'm assuming this is program dependent and you still got a residency position, so some program must have considered it to either be a plus or at least not a negative.

I matched at one of the places that asked me that question. I gave them the right answer. Plus they had an EMS fellowship that I think they were trying to sell me down the road.

 

[sylvanthus]

Ahhh glad to hear it. This is good info to know, thanks. Gives me an idea of what program directors are thinking.

 

[tkim]

Ahhh glad to hear it. This is good info to know, thanks. Gives me an idea of what program directors are thinking.

It really boils down to two things:

1) Would I like working with this person?

2) Is the person trainable?

Simple.

 

[HoochIsCrazy]

Only an intern so I can't answer your questions about the inner workings at my own residency, much less others.

I will say though that you should *absolutely* set up your schedule to have January off (or as close to off as your schedule can handle), and as much of December as possible. November and early december would be nice too but less important. Interview invites go out in waves. Early waves are often people who check all the boxes. You need to have a lot of flexibility to interview at the tail end of the interview season. You will get screwed if your time off is early in the season and you get your invites late when you have other commitments.

Reading your previous posts, I do think you are a very unique candidate that will interview well, so I would encourage you to take as many interviews as possible and have a schedule that will allow you to do so.

Best of luck.

Specifically board scores.

I am a great applicant from a great school with honors in a sub-internship where I ran entire pods on my own (4-5 patients of random acuity) and reported directly to the attending.

I have great letters from both of the program co-directors at my school as well as the clerkship director.

I have a love of EM that becomes obvious within 5 minutes of meeting me and a great work ethic.

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Are there programs I might as well not bother with because they won't even look at my experience and letters when they see my score?

Are there programs known to take "more complete" (often codeword for low step scores in my experience) applicants and would be less likely to worry about bad board scores?

Thanks all.

 

[LabMonster]

But, I barely passed step 1. Passed on first try, but barely. I am just a horrible test-taker.

Getting ready to take step 2 and working very hard at it, but I don't expect to score astronomically high. So the usual answer of "kill step 2" might not work for me.

Is there screening, the official answer is no because programs are not supposed to use the 'Steps' as screening tools. Do they do it anyway off the record because it's an effective, objective, quick method of screening, yes...

So, you DO need to Spank step II.


I'm not sure what is meant by "bad test taker." If it were all somehow a process "thing" then everyone who has ever failed a test was a "bad test taker" that day. There is a difference between not knowing and learning disability. If you have a comprehension issue, address it, and take the test under circumstances more appropriate to maximize your score. Otherwise, I would suggest finding the weak links in your study regimen and addressing those so you can "kill step II".