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DO Competitive Residency
- Thread starter gqman1234
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Oh lord, so many things wrong with this Im not even going to bother tearing it apart. Too old for this.
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Um, no.
Plenty of my classmates at Western had 30+ MCAT and higher GPAs. Plenty of people with lower MCAT scores scored higher on the COMLEX and USMLE than people with higher MCAT scores. Read more SDN.
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You do not seem ignorant rather you strike me as quite an arrogant individual. my best advice would be to not walk into an interview with this attitude. That is, if you're granted one in the first place.
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With a DO residency, you'll be lucky to be practicing in rural Wyoming. Maybe Puerto Rico if you get lucky.
This can't be a serious question.
This can't be a serious question.
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ha ha...no worries man let us young guns take care of this.
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Wait, wait, wait . . . you scored a 28 on the MCAT 😱 I have never heard of such a thing! I bet you won't even have to take the COMLEX, your MCAT score will be good enough to get you into any residency of your choice.
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You will NOT by any stretch of imagination have one of the highest or even close to one of the highest stats especially at the more established schools where you would be considered barely above average.
Furthermore, COMLEX has very little to do with your performance in UG. I know people in my class with lower stats than mine who did much better on COMLEX and than me and vice versa.
Once you finish residency and are licensed, you can get a job anywhere for private practice. However, if you are interested in academic medicine then that's different as it requires extensive research but that can be accomplished.
On a separate note, Gen surg and derm are not even close in level of competitiveness (Derm >>>> Gen Surg) and anyone who is deciding between those two fields has very little knowledge what any of them entail because they are exact opposite of each other in all aspects except that they both make more money than peds.
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Lmao. My MCAT is slightly higher than a single schools average therefore I will have the best stats in all of osteopathic medicine.
Your thinking is way off. Med school is way different than undrgrad. It is entirely up to you.. your odds against derm are so against you that it isn't even worth shooting for at this point. And doing well when about 7% of the people around you will make it to med school is a whole lot different than competing exclusively against and doing better than the 7%. You are way ahead of yourself and living on a cloud.
Edit: In addition, DMU is one of the most generous schools regarding scholarships and I didn't get one which means there are a good number of students with better stats than mine. And being that your stats are exactly like mine, you won't be near the top of your class in stats. At any school.
Your thinking is way off. Med school is way different than undrgrad. It is entirely up to you.. your odds against derm are so against you that it isn't even worth shooting for at this point. And doing well when about 7% of the people around you will make it to med school is a whole lot different than competing exclusively against and doing better than the 7%. You are way ahead of yourself and living on a cloud.
Edit: In addition, DMU is one of the most generous schools regarding scholarships and I didn't get one which means there are a good number of students with better stats than mine. And being that your stats are exactly like mine, you won't be near the top of your class in stats. At any school.
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Look at the dudes post history, he applied MD and got zero interviews. Something tells me he is clueless about many things. Hate to be a douche and call him out, but the arrogance is too much for me to deal with right now. Assuming a person who can't get into an MD program, can waltz into a DO program and rock the boards just pisses me off.
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You are simply a bit clueless. That's all. Everyone starts off that way.
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A 28 isn't all that special at DO schools anymore. However, to answer your question, no. People with DO residencies don't have much trouble getting jobs. You'll be getting paid the same as your MD equivalent.
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Schools don't discriminate based on race, there is a law about that. My guess is that it was a combination of your stats, attitude, and probably had something to do with not applying broadly.
errr....28 MCAT is ~66th percentile, which is barely above the mean for all test takers. That's not saying much.
TBH, there are a couple of DO schools with a ~24 MCAT average.
This I'm not sure about....while not specifically referring to med schools, I remember articles about discrimination by some law schools and ivy undergrads.
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OK! So let me give you a little taste of 3rd year of medical school:
Student Dr. gqman1234, it is obvious to us that you know very little about what an average is. So why don't you look up what average means and prepare a short report so we can all learn from you and focus on the part about what it means to have 0.7 points higher than the average when the data range is roughly 22-35!
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Which ones?
at least WVSOM and PCSOM
There might be a few others..perhaps one of the new schools
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There are also LCME schools with 24 MCAT averages... The 2-3 DO schools you are referring to, have very high regional bias for admitting students and their sole mission is to provide more physicians for those areas which are greatly underserved.... but that's not the point.... The point was that the OP thinks his/her 28 is one of the highest among DO students which as it has been pointed out on this thread is not factually accurate.
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Who do you think you are? God... you are probably straight from undergrad?? am I correct? Well graduate school and professional school is a different ball game bud.. and also don't play the race card because you didn't get in!! There are reasons why you didn't get in. Also, you aren't god because you got a 28, well that isn't the highest score for an accepted DO student. Its a disgrace to the do school that accepted you and the profession..due to your ignorances!!!!! 😡😡😡
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Nope - USMLE/COMLEX will be harder than MCAT. USMLE likes higher level ordered thinking, while COMLEX can have some questions which will rquire higher level ordered thinking, with others being completely random. Neither are pure memorization that you are hoping. And the board certification exam at the end of residency will be harder than USMLE/COMLEX
But if you think having an extra year of self-study will place you in the upper echelon of test takers, go ahead and believe that.
FYI: your awesome MCAT score of 28 is only in the 63.7-69.5 percentile of test takers (source: 2008 AAMC/MCAT, Mean 24.9 with std 6.4).
For the 2011 application year, the mean MCAT score of DO applicants is 25.66 with std of 4.18. Mean GPA for DO applicants were 3.44 with std of 0.33 (for females) and 3.38 with std of 0.36 (for males). (source: AACOM).
Your stats aren't even 1 standard deviation from APPLICANTS to DO schools.
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I believe WVSOM is higher than that now, and I can't say anything about PCSOM but that school only cares about a small niche of applicants anyway.at least WVSOM and PCSOM
There might be a few others..perhaps one of the new schools
BTW, a 27 at DMU median average means that 50% of the students have higher than a 27, and 50% have lower. 50% of DMU got either the same score as you on the MCAT, or higher. I also suggest you take a look at the USMLE exams because it's not really just memorization.
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My goodness, take it easy man.
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Darn it... I hate being late to these threads. Missed out on all the fun.
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👍 Me too. I was thinking of all the mean things to say, but most people hit the nail on the head
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👍 Definitely agree with you on this for sure.
For the OP, dude really??? To add to what everyone else has tried to help you with, and have been more than generous with trying to assist you with understanding the fallacy of your thoughts. The MCAT is only a predictor of how well you will do in the FIRST year of Medical School.
The USMLE and COMLEX are entirely a different ball game, because they're licensing exams and will probably be the first that you have ever taken whereas many of us substandard DOs (snicker...) have already taken at least one level of certification/licensing exams or spent 1000s of hours in healthcare (not just shadowing once in awhile) prior to attending Medical School or even applying. You cannot go into Medical School with this attitude and expect to survive.
So for the sanity of yourself and your future fellow classmates grow up and realize that you are pursuing a Doctoral level degree, not some random BS degree or a basket-weaving degree. DO students spend on average 200 more hours in training than MD students, and to get a competitive residency; you have to be competitive meaning you have to know when to ask others for help, consult, and be humble enough to talk to others who have way more experience, time in healthcare, and as others have already stated realize your MCAT score doesn't correlate to your COMLEX/USMLE scores. (besides the fact that a 28 is the 66th percentile as already stated and a 27.5 is AVERAGE for DMU
)I'm kind of curious as to why you said its not worth even trying for derm at this point. Are you referring to the OP alone, or incoming DO students in general? I'm not looking into derm myself, just curious.
You got a point there.
um..wouldn't all that stuff help in terms of doing well on the MCAT😕
"1000s of hours in healthcare" shouldn't be mutually exclusive with an awesome MCAT score.
as others have already stated realize your MCAT score doesn't correlate to your COMLEX/USMLE scores. (besides the fact that a 28 is the 66th percentile as already stated and a 27.5 is AVERAGE for DMU
No one said there wasn't a correlation, just that 28 isn't the "highest stats" for entering DO students.
In fact, didn't DocEspana mention that MCAT score (while not great) is currently the best correlation with board scores😕
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but OP, have you applied/interviewed anywhere yet? I'll admit I kind of thought the same thing when I was first applying (30 MCAT, I thought I would at least be toward the top in my interview groups), but when I had my first interview, it was a huge reality check. Sure, a 28 is above average, but so many candidates bring so much more to the table than just GPA and MCAT. If you ever have to do a group interview, you'll know what I'm talking about.
I hope I'm not coming off as mean or defensive. In fact, I'm trying to help you by saying that you will have to take this much more seriously if you plan to matriculate and succeed, especially at a school like DMU.
Or, you might've already been accepted and this makes me look foolish. If that's the case, good luck to you.
I hope I'm not coming off as mean or defensive. In fact, I'm trying to help you by saying that you will have to take this much more seriously if you plan to matriculate and succeed, especially at a school like DMU.
Or, you might've already been accepted and this makes me look foolish. If that's the case, good luck to you.
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Numerous reasons. Med school hasn't even started yes and it is extremely competitive. Focus on grades alone. And most people change their minds, but having a specialty picked out could affect 3rd year negatively. Planning on derm before med school starts is like getting blueprints for the house you are going to build when you are a dermatolgist. Way too early. If you focus on grades you can see what capabilities you have and where you need to go. Like I said, being top of class in med school is way different than being the top in undergrad.
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OP- i just read your other thread and you are more clueless than i originally thought. you really have a lot of work you need to do. take this year and fix the problems you have. before you start studying for step 1, you need to worry solely on getting into med school. and you need to be realistic. with your very weak ECs and stats, you are competitive for DO schools, not really MD schools. You may be able to get in but you need to increase the number of DO schools you apply to. PCOM and DMU isn't enough. You are overestimating your abilities right now and you need to step back, calm down, and really look at where you can get in. You should probably apply to at least 6 DO schools. I don't know what ECs you will have when apply this year, but if they aren't much different than what you have, you aren't going to have much success. You are focusing on surgery and derm but ignoring the reason you didn't get a single interview.
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Awesome point Frky. As this has been stated numerous times here on SDN, and I have heard this numerous times from the adviser that I've been working with, apply early and apply broadly (6 schools is a good starting point). As others have mentioned as well, focus on what areas you need to improve, especially if you are putting up weaker numbers (i.e. clinical experience, research, etc) and then look at applying.
Personally, I am glad that I have a friend who graduated DO school before I did, because I now have a really good mentor and by watching and learning from him it's been very useful in determining how much energy to put into well I really want to go into Surgery and not even have started Medical School or completed significant hours of clinical time (even then it is really, really hard to predict what you will be good at, what rotations you'll excel in, etc until OMS-3, just a thought.)
So, OP please help yourself by getting more time in ECs, and learn from what others are trying to say here and help you with in understanding this tedious process called applying for Medical School.
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I read the OP's original post as assuming that because has a 28 means that he will be accepted to wherever he applies. I completely agree that 1000s of hours are needed for applying, which fortunately DO schools are really good about understanding the full applicant.
My point on the MCAT versus COMLEX I was from reading SDN as well and talking with a close friend who just graduated DO school (it's very possible to have a weak MCAT score and strong COMLEX score, depending on the student and their background going into the MCAT i.e. not taking the MCAT for years after finishing classes, whereas COMLEX is taken a bit earlier)
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One point on the COMLEX or USMLE and memorization:
I had a classmate who memorized FA. Could quote the book cover to cover. Failed both level 1 COMLEX and step 1 USMLE twice. Each. Finally took an extra year with a private tutor to actually understand and be able to integrate and apply the concepts and marginally passed COMLEX their third try. This was a person who did fairly well in their classroom studies first two years and was by no means a poor student (and btw, they had a better MCAT than 28).
Regarding your "top" MCAT scores, I have nothing further to add or comment upon from above other than reiterating you should study a statistical analysis of where your MCAT of 28 falls. You should also be aware that many of the published average MCAT scores are several years old and admission to DO schools is getting more competitive, especially among the more established schools. Newer schools may be easier to gain entry.
OP, I would implore you to first concentrate on getting into med school, then concentrate on doing well your first two years, then work on passing boards. Your schoolwork should prepare you well if you listen, study well, and integrate the new knowledge you gain. After you do some rotations THEN and ONLY THEN should you consider which specialty you want to get into. As I have said many times on these boards, over 80% of all medical students change their minds of what they are "absolutely 100% positive" they want to specialize in before med school.
Regarding your original question: board certified is board certified. You will be able to get work in most fields in a variety of populated areas. There are a few exceptions: pathology and radiology I hear can be rather difficult to get a job as aging physicians don't tend to retire as much as in other specialties.
I had a classmate who memorized FA. Could quote the book cover to cover. Failed both level 1 COMLEX and step 1 USMLE twice. Each. Finally took an extra year with a private tutor to actually understand and be able to integrate and apply the concepts and marginally passed COMLEX their third try. This was a person who did fairly well in their classroom studies first two years and was by no means a poor student (and btw, they had a better MCAT than 28).
Regarding your "top" MCAT scores, I have nothing further to add or comment upon from above other than reiterating you should study a statistical analysis of where your MCAT of 28 falls. You should also be aware that many of the published average MCAT scores are several years old and admission to DO schools is getting more competitive, especially among the more established schools. Newer schools may be easier to gain entry.
OP, I would implore you to first concentrate on getting into med school, then concentrate on doing well your first two years, then work on passing boards. Your schoolwork should prepare you well if you listen, study well, and integrate the new knowledge you gain. After you do some rotations THEN and ONLY THEN should you consider which specialty you want to get into. As I have said many times on these boards, over 80% of all medical students change their minds of what they are "absolutely 100% positive" they want to specialize in before med school.
Regarding your original question: board certified is board certified. You will be able to get work in most fields in a variety of populated areas. There are a few exceptions: pathology and radiology I hear can be rather difficult to get a job as aging physicians don't tend to retire as much as in other specialties.
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OP, you should consider podiatry! Your stats are so much higher than the average that you're bound to out preform everyone get into the best podiatric residency ever!
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I almost spit out my gum when I read this. lmao
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Hallelujiah!!! A voice of reason in a sea of ignorance. I'm glad someone else replied to this. I was so flabbergasted by the OP I just couldn't bring myself to be civil in my reply.
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FWIW, I had a 31Q MCAT with a 3.7 GPA and have only had one DO interview so far. I applied on time (everyone was finished by October) and have strong EC's, thousands of hospital/clinical hours, tons of research and great LOR's. Even with that, I applied very broadly (about 25 schools total, both MD and DO, 8 or so of which were DO). I have yet to be rejected by any of the DO schools, but have only had one interview and this is late in the cycle. I assume many of my applications will soon be returned as rejections. Luckily, my one interview yielded an acceptance. This is just my story...but I can tell you right now your stats (which are not very impressive, honestly) do not alone make your application. There's much more to it. Good luck to you in your future endeavors, but you need to do a little searching (both here on SDN and within yourself) to determine what you need to do.
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Actually you finished really late, had you been complete by mid august you'd probably have at least 3 acceptances and over 5 interviews.
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Nah, that's actually a pretty good time to be complete at most DO schools other than a few exceptions. there are instances when you get complete around sept, oct for schools.
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After looking back, my last secondary was completed on 9/15. I had all of my secondaries done before most of my friends that applied to MD schools. Part of the reason was that I was waiting to get my MCAT score back...which took some time since I took it in the summer. But I have to disagree that I was really late...especially considering there are schools still accepting secondaries right now.
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When I applied, I turned in AACOMAS second day it was open. Secondaries were turned around within 48 hours. I had 5.. FIVE interviews offered by Labor Day with two completed in September. By October 1 I had my first acceptance in hand.
You, my friend, were late. Early is soooo key when it comes to medical school applications. You aren't early if you submit later than 7 days from opening of aacomas or offering of secondary.
You, my friend, were late. Early is soooo key when it comes to medical school applications. You aren't early if you submit later than 7 days from opening of aacomas or offering of secondary.
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Hmm...I clearly am mistaken, then. I didn't think I had applied early, by any means...but I never would have considered myself late. Either way, I am grateful to have an acceptance in hand and am looking forward to next year!
