This may be a strange question, but does anyone know?? Thanks.
Do DOs ever work with or refer their patients to chiropractors?
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Doctors probably refer to who ever they think their patients can benefit from or make money from.
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Sure - e.g. http://www.beecavesfamilypractice.com/providers
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I do not, would not. I do my own manipulation when warranted. Have had to clean up too much bad advice given by chiro. Pisses me off when the chiro sends the patient for an MRI where they have invested in and then the chiro interprets the MRI too!!! Seen this to many times this past few weeks. Bad care for too many patients and then I have to pick up the pieces and get the patient the proper care because the chiro has nothing else to offer after making tons of money off the patient. DO NOT GET ME STARTED.
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They (Chiro) have bad reputation in the state of FL... You are describing the complaints I usually hear about them.
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I don't understand how chiropractors are able to order and interpret medical imaging in the first place. It seems negligent as they cannot possibly meet the medical standard of care even if the results could somehow be interpreted accurately (And, something tells me they aren't for the most part.).
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No. Nor would I send a patient to a homeopath instead of a pharmacist.
Also from FL. Chiropractors are widely regarded as charlatans here, and for good reason.
Also from FL. Chiropractors are widely regarded as charlatans here, and for good reason.
Just wanted to say that it's interesting to hear that chiropractors have such a bad reputation in Florida. I know they do on these forums, too. In Michigan, where I live, they have a great reputation. Almost all of my family members and friends have been to one at least once for back pain and I've never heard anything negative about them. I'm not saying I feel one way or the other, but it's interesting to me the regional differences in opinion.
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Exactly, I don't know if it's legal. But the patient's are left in limbo.
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This is very true. Seen bad doctors too. But the OP's question was would you refer to chiro? I would not.
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I am a Chiropractor, so yes I would.
Look, the Chiro bashing on this forum is unprofessional. I would wager the vast majority of folks on SDN, who do Chiro bash, are doing it relatively clueless. I heard this, or my friend/colleague told me that.
I've gone through the training and I've worked in the field for the past 7 years. I know the limitations of the degree. I also know that there are a large population of Chiro's out there which give the entire profession a bad wrap. I also know there are some really good ones out there.
Biomechanics is the bread and butter of Chiropractic. That's where the field should be relegated. Yes, there is cause and need for MRI findings if you are suspecting disc injuries. When DC's delve into aspects outside of their scope of medicine is where they start to run into trouble.
If I'm practicing in a specialty where I don't have the facilities or time to manipulate my patients (once I'm finished with DO school and residency etc) and I have established a relationship with a good DC who looks at the biomechanics of an individual and can give the patient more time than I can. No problem with that referral.
More and more research is being done concerning the negative health aspects of a sedentary lifestyle. DC's should be jumping all over that research and become biomechanical experts. It's the only way I see the profession surviving the next 100 years.
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I was at a conference recently where the main topic was how to deal with hateful patients (ref: http://www.ejinme.com/article/S0953-6205(06)00131-2/fulltext .) In the Q&A portion, it was suggested by a senior peds attending that it may actually be a good idea to be supportive of our alternative medicine colleagues, be they naturopaths, chiropractors, etc. Her reasoning was that for some patients such as dependent clingers, we simply can not offer all of the care and empathy that they require to remain at baseline. Referring out to others gives the patient the sense of well-being that will keep them healthy (and out of our hair?).
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It also seems strange that health insurance would pay for the MRI if it was ordered from a DC.
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Who reads the scan? A chiropractor?
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I've had 2 instances this week where I was trying to figure out the course of treatment for certain patients. I have requested the MRI reports and in both cases the films were read and the reports dictated by the chiropracter. So how can I trust that when the patient is telling me they go EVERY DAY to be "cracked" per their recommendations and aren't getting better and come see me unsure of the next step as their leg is still numb, etc?
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Chiropractors have a radiology diplomate, DACBR, which allows them to interpret radiographs just as MD/DO radiologist can. I believe they cannot administer IV contrast and things like that, but I cannot verify that information.
Within our traditional DC license, we can interpret all imaging. We can write reports and sign our name to it. Personally, I'll always look at the images but I will yield to the radiologist report.
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I get that you might be from FL from reading some of your past posts... In FL , chiros have such a bad name so that has forced the FL legislature to pass laws to make it difficult for them to engage in fraudulent practice. I don't think it is only one bad apple in FL. I think the profession has been out of control here. I don't have anything against Chiros.
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The legislation that was passed is in regards to auto accident insurance, which I agree, has become ridiculously abused. The PIP reform is targeted at Chiro's indirectly, but the entire system is abused from hospitals to general practitioners.
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Seems to be rampant here in Portland, OR. I look at all my own films too, doesn't mean I'm dictating the official report on it. I don't refer to chiro only because I do my own manipulations and don't have the need. Not saying they all are bad, but I seem to have been getting a string of patients lately who have been treated poorly. Many are Hispanic and I don't feel are getting the best care due to language barrier. If I have a patient in that bad of shape, they go to neurospine when warranted.
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I've lived in three very different geographical locations in my lifetime. In each area, DC's constantly passed themselves off as more than they truly were, and in some cases it got dangerous. In my job I've unfortunately seen so much extra damage by chiro's reaching beyond their scope. I have a very close family member that is a DC, and it's outright scary listening to some of her ideals and practices. Honestly, some of the principles come off a little too cult-ish. Maybe I've only had negative experiences, but asking around it seems somewhat consistent. I've also met some excellent DC's. I don't think they'll be relevant in 30 years.
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I was totally anti chiropractor. Grew up in a medical family who had very little regard for chiros. That was until I worked with a DO whose brother was a chiro. They did refer back and forth and he often referred to other chiros in the area. My husband was hurt in an auto accident and the MD spine surgeon sent him to the chiro for some of the rehabilitation and recovery work. I was very impressed with the manner in which that chiro conducted himself. In addition I had the chance to shadow a chiro for a few visits and I really enjoyed learning what he did and why. Maybe I got to met 3+ of the "good" ones but as a whole I think they are working within their limits (we all have limits) and are trying to be an important part of our health care system. JMO
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I'm from Florida and played collegiate sports. Our team chiropractor was a God send. I definitely would not have played for 4 years had he not been there.
P.S. there are reasons that every collegiate and professional sports team employs chiropractors. They are good at what they are trained to do! I'll leave it that.
P.S. there are reasons that every collegiate and professional sports team employs chiropractors. They are good at what they are trained to do! I'll leave it that.
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To answer OP's original question: yes, there are definitely DO's who work with chiropractors. I shadowed a DO who owned a large rehabilitation clinic. In his practice he employed two (very professional) chiros and a PT. He worked closely with the chiros, consulted them often, and respected their medical opinions.
Before shadowing at that office I had an opinion of chiros that was skewed somewhat negatively. I have several close friends whose siblings/relatives are chiropractors. They've constantly tried to convince me, and their patients, that they won't get cancer or need vaccinations as long as they keep their body in constant "perfect alignment." They tout their manipulations as a cure for every ailment and heavily pressure their patients into buying very high dollar care plans. I know there has also been a push for years by chiropractors to get full prescribing privileges despite the limited scope of care they can provide. These factors together led me to view chiropractors as unrealistic care providers at best and dangerous ones at worst.
Following my time in the rehab office I learned that chiropractors can have an important role in patient care, particularly when it comes to rehabilitation. Many patients benefited greatly from their techniques.
I wish as a profession they'd move away from some of their more (as someone described it) "cult-ish" teachings and start focusing on techniques/skills that are proven to make a difference to patients. If they did this I think they could become a more important part of the medical team.
Before shadowing at that office I had an opinion of chiros that was skewed somewhat negatively. I have several close friends whose siblings/relatives are chiropractors. They've constantly tried to convince me, and their patients, that they won't get cancer or need vaccinations as long as they keep their body in constant "perfect alignment." They tout their manipulations as a cure for every ailment and heavily pressure their patients into buying very high dollar care plans. I know there has also been a push for years by chiropractors to get full prescribing privileges despite the limited scope of care they can provide. These factors together led me to view chiropractors as unrealistic care providers at best and dangerous ones at worst.
Following my time in the rehab office I learned that chiropractors can have an important role in patient care, particularly when it comes to rehabilitation. Many patients benefited greatly from their techniques.
I wish as a profession they'd move away from some of their more (as someone described it) "cult-ish" teachings and start focusing on techniques/skills that are proven to make a difference to patients. If they did this I think they could become a more important part of the medical team.
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This is a well rounded and grounded response.
Truth be told, chiropractic medicine stemmed off of osteopathic medicine when it was still in its infancy. I'm sure many chiropractic techniques share similarities with PT and OMT. In the end, osteopathic medicine chose to evolve in a different way, ironically in a direction against the wishes of A.T. Still. Certainly not a bad thing; it's the route history took.
If you think about it, Eastern medicine has been around a long time, too. If it truly didn't work at all, why would it still be around and widely used? Who's to say what's effective or not? Pharmacology plays a major role in modern American medicine which itself is relatively new with many changes arriving in the mid 20th century. One could argue that we are no better off today, in some respects, than we were in the 1800s, giving medicines that may do more harm than good. (At least, we do less purging and blood-letting.) Additonally, there is a lot of bad and biased research reporting out there purely for the end goal of making another dollar. It's rampant even in the most prestigious journals. It makes me wonder what the history books will say about our era following the next medical revolution.
This whole thing vaguely reminds me of the trolls who "argue" the letters MD are somehow superior to DO. The American MD is one degree of medicine of many in this world. Does it magically offer something superior to the British, French, Russians, etc.?
In the end, we all have the same goal; That is, to make another person well in accordance with his or her wishes. However one chooses to practice, the limitations (and everyone has them) need to be understood and respected while upholding the ever-evolving standard of care. Basically, it boils down to the provider and how he or she approaches the art and science of medicine.
We've all seen quack doctors with any combination of letters after their names on late night TV, magazines, etc. There are also doctors who finish school and never bother to keep up with the latest evidence in their respective fields. Any number of people can choose to tread dangerously whether that be through action or inaction.
We must all do our best in every regard whether that be morally, ethically, or legally.
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There is good and bad in every profession. One should never judge all members of one profession by the actions of a few. I am a chiropractor and will also be a DO. This us versus them or one profession is better than the other needs to stop. As healthcare providers, we need to do what is best for the patient. Whether that is treating the patient or referring them to another profession. I receive many referrals from both MDs and DO's.
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I don't know about that. Chiropractor reimbursements just increased by 12%. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/new-final-2014-physician-fee-schedule-published.1045063/
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Oh boy! How did they pull that off?
