Do I honestly need calculus?

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Not unless you like that sort of thing.

There are a handfull of schools that require calc. Make sure you don't want to go to one of them.
 
Most schools dont require calc. Harvard does, along with a few others. Make a list of the top 10 schools that you would like to attend, and if any of those require calc, you should probably take it.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
Most schools dont require calc. Harvard does, along with a few others. Make a list of the top 10 schools that you would like to attend, and if any of those require calc, you should probably take it.
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Thanks for the advice first two people who responded, but will it make a difference not having it when it comes to making med schools making decisions. Is there any good med schools that don't require calc?
 
No, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Physics is physics.
 
Assembler said:
Most institutions want calculus-based physics; thus, calc is a prereq.
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This is not true. Unless someone can show you a statement from a number of medical schools alluding to this idea, then do not believe it. Check out the MSAR... you wont see anything about Calc-based physics.
 
Judah_Ben-Hur said:
Calc. isnt on the mcat, some med schools only require college math, I'm a psych major so Im really focusing on stats classes, should I take calc over the summer or anytime before applying?


http://premed.sacredheart.edu/CalculusRequirements.htm
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Hell no. The only thing calc did for me was drop my GPA. Calc blows. Bad. And you don't need calc-based physics, either.
 
I need to retract my statement. Got a bit confused. I meant for undergraduate science majors, it usually is that case.

Med schools...well, no, it probably doesn't matter then. I still don't understand why you would not take calculus though. As a college student, you should have some advanced math exposure. Just my personal opinion though.
 
I would go ahead and take calculus.

At some institutions like mine, different calc classes are taught for different kind of people.

In other words we have life sci calc which is easier than MAC 2311 the regular calc.

Life sci calc is for bio majors.

Then we have engineering calc which is harder than life sci but easier than reg. calc.

And then we have regular calculus. If you have option like this, I would take which one would seem like it is more likely to give you an A. But I would take it because by general rule of thumb most schools want either 2 semesters of calc or semester of calc and a semester of stats.
 
If you do not need calc, then DO NOT TAKE IT. Adcoms don't care, and it's been described by medical school students as "the most worthless class I ever took." It won't make any difference to adcoms, and all it will do is cause you pain and suffering.
 
if you hate it dont take it

TAKE STATISTICS

its helpful!
 
Calculus will make you smarter, but you have to work for it
 
calculus is not required for med school and the practice of medicine. still, you're an academic weakling if you can't handle some simple calculus 😛 . if you can't understand stuff like basic integration and derivatives, i have no idea how you'll grasp the more difficult concepts of bio and chem.
 
krelian said:
calculus is not required for med school and the practice of medicine. still, you're an academic weakling if you can't handle some simple calculus 😛 . if you can't understand stuff like basic integration and derivatives, i have no idea how you'll grasp the more difficult concepts of bio and chem.
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Give me a break. Some people grasp certain concepts more easily than others. I aced every single biology, chemistry, physics, and biochem class I've ever taken (as a bio major/chem minor, graduating next term). But I struggled like hell through calc. I've never liked math, and I've never been good at it. But put me in an o-chem/biochem/genetics/etc. class, and I do just fine. You don't need calc.
 
calculus and calc-based physics are probably hard for people because it's mostly based on concepts and not as much on memorization. you can study a lot for those classes and still get owned on the exams. there's skills and concepts for bio/chem/biochem classes too, but there's a lot more focus on studying. thus, if you study a lot, you'll do fine in these courses.
 
Judah_Ben-Hur said:
Calc. isnt on the mcat, some med schools only require college math, I'm a psych major so Im really focusing on stats classes, should I take calc over the summer or anytime before applying?


http://premed.sacredheart.edu/CalculusRequirements.htm
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Hey, I was a psych major also. 👍 I did not take any calculus in college, but I did have one semester of calculus credit from an AP course in high school. I also took two semesters of graduate-level statistics through the psychology department. Some of the schools to which I applied required two semesters of calculus. I used my AP credits and statistics classes to meet the requirements and had no problems or questions. Most schools seem to be pretty flexible about these things.
 
For simply getting through medical school and understanding basic science concepts from a qualitative perspective, calculus is not required. If this is your goal, then don't worry about taking calc and you'll do fine. Yet there is a reason that many of the research heavy, prestigious schools require it. Calculus is the foundational tool from which fundamental concepts of chemistry, physics, and even a lot of biology are based on. All of the high-tech medical instruments and imaging equipment that you will use as a physician rely on the use of calculus for their design and callibration. And simply to use statistics and understand experimental data, calculus isn't necessary needed but at least be aware that a lot of the formulas and principles in statistics are derived using calculus. In my opinion, students of science should at least be exposed to the elementary concepts introduced in freshman calculus courses. If it doesn't do anything else, at least it will open up your mind a little and improve your problem solving skills.
 
To all those who said Calc is not needed for admission to med school, I disagree with this.

I have looked at many school websites and most of them want at least one semester of Calculus and a semester of Stats OR Calc II
 
Some schools want a year of calc, in which case, I won't be applying to those. 😛

Honestly, if you can do pretty well in chemistry (general or organic), then Calc 1 should be a breeze. I had no trouble whatsoever on my calc exams and scored an easy A. Some of the homework was a brain-wracker, but that didn't affect my grades.
 
You aced those bio/chem classes because you have a good memory.

Calculus owns people because it tests your problem-solving abilities. This is most likely why a lot of the top schools require it.
Calculus certainly gives one an idea of the math underlying how much of the world works, from economics to congestive heart failure. You can bet those that rated it "the most worthless class they took" did so because they got owned and frustrated about how it took a chunk out of their GPA.
BTW, if you take a worthwhile Stats class, you'll need some calculus background to understand the all important p-value (which is an integrated value).
Then again, since most take Stats just to take it, it doesn't matter anyway.
 
JDAWG07 said:
For simply getting through medical school and understanding basic science concepts from a qualitative perspective, calculus is not required. If this is your goal, then don't worry about taking calc and you'll do fine. Yet there is a reason that many of the research heavy, prestigious schools require it. Calculus is the foundational tool from which fundamental concepts of chemistry, physics, and even a lot of biology are based on. All of the high-tech medical instruments and imaging equipment that you will use as a physician rely on the use of calculus for their design and callibration. And simply to use statistics and understand experimental data, calculus isn't necessary needed but at least be aware that a lot of the formulas and principles in statistics are derived using calculus. In my opinion, students of science should at least be exposed to the elementary concepts introduced in freshman calculus courses. If it doesn't do anything else, at least it will open up your mind a little and improve your problem solving skills.
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if you are not a wimp...simply take calc. It will not kill you. I promise. :laugh:
 
MB in SD said:
You aced those bio/chem classes because you have a good memory.

Calculus owns people because it tests your problem-solving abilities. This is most likely why a lot of the top schools require it.
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And organic doesn't? Calc 1 story problems aren't nearly as difficult as doing a mechanism for a Hofmann rearrangement. If anything, calc is more memorization than a lot of chemistry.
 
TheProwler said:
And organic doesn't? Calc 1 story problems aren't nearly as difficult as doing a mechanism for a Hofmann rearrangement. If anything, calc is more memorization than a lot of chemistry.
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A calc class that involves a lot of memorization is a terrible class, but is one that most people would like because the exam problems are probably duplicates of the ones the prof solved during lecture. Where people get owned during calc is when the exam problems are tricky and require application of concepts instead of using formulas for everything.

Orgo has some concepts, especially for mechanisms that fall under the typical categories (carbonyl addition, acyl substition, EAS, Sn1&Sn2). But aside from biochem, orgo is the most memorization intensive course ever. If you don't know the reactions, you will get owned during exams. A smart person has a better chance at doing well on a calc exam without studying than on an orgo exam without studying.

In short, I agree with MB in SD. People complain about courses because they lack the skills for it. People who complain about calc can't hack math concepts. Those that complain about orgo/bio can't memorize well. For instance, I often complain about writing classes because I have writer's block.
 
krelian said:
Orgo has some concepts, especially for mechanisms that fall under the typical categories (carbonyl addition, acyl substition, EAS, Sn1&Sn2). But aside from biochem, orgo is the most memorization intensive course ever. If you don't know the reactions, you will get owned during exams. A smart person has a better chance at doing well on a calc exam without studying than on an orgo exam without studying.
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I completely disagree. There's somebody on SDN who took the MCAT without ever taking organic and damn near aced the entire section. Organic is completely a logic/problem-solving process. If you're memorizing any more than what the reagents do, then you're memorizing way too much.
 
All I have to say is, after taking Calc I-III and orgo, nothing tops either of them like physics. Calculus will not hurt you.
 
krelian said:
calculus is not required for med school and the practice of medicine. still, you're an academic weakling if you can't handle some simple calculus 😛 . if you can't understand stuff like basic integration and derivatives, i have no idea how you'll grasp the more difficult concepts of bio and chem.
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Bio and chem I like, not difficult at all. Those classes are required clac isn't hence me asking if I need it. I rather take some class thats more productive and helpful towards beign a premed than calc thats why Im asking if I really need it. I have no idea how you can't grasp the easy concept of you being an idiot, idiot.
 
gujuDoc said:
To all those who said Calc is not needed for admission to med school, I disagree with this.

I have looked at many school websites and most of them want at least one semester of Calculus and a semester of Stats OR Calc II
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The MSAR seems to suggest otherwise...
 
gujuDoc said:
To all those who said Calc is not needed for admission to med school, I disagree with this.

I have looked at many school websites and most of them want at least one semester of Calculus and a semester of Stats OR Calc II
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Wrong. Of the 126 accredited medical schools, only 13 require calculus and 6 require "calculus or statistics."

List of schools that require calculus.
 
Physics w/ Calculus is harder than calculus on its own because of the way the calculus is taught - i.e. problem, formula, paremeters, apply. On the other hand, if calculus was taught as any respectable math course should, it would be full of rigorous (and dry) mathematical proofs, which would make it harder to digest than even physics.

Though I see where you're coming from. People are wired differently, can we leave it at that?

Some people are adept at mathematical theory but not at physics; some people are pretty good at physics but not so good at math or orgo; others are great at orgo but not at math or physics. And then there are those who are good in yet other subjects! It doesn't mean your "stupid" if you are not good at/ don't like certain subjects - that's just the way you are.

Bottom line, if you are only interested into getting into medical school (except for the top few that require it), don't take calculus. If you want a better education and a truer understanding of physics, statistics, biophysics, physical chemistry, ecology, etc. you should take several courses in calculus and algebra: Single Variable Calculus, Multivariable Calculus, Vector Calculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra. These will prepare you for practically any science (except some advanced topics in physics that require topology, differential geometry, group theory, etc.).
 
Calculus was probably one of the best classes I took in college. I like math and I usually do very well in it. But if you're already past physics or are not planning on taking p-chem, then it probably isn't the most worthwhile class to take unless your backup plan is research where it may be more applicable. I took calc I and calc II my senior year of college, and if only I had bothered to take them before physics - my life would have been so much easier. But if you're good at math, it's not that hard. (I also took AP calc in high school via U.Pitt and I did well back when I was 17.) It was definitely a nice science GPA booster for my apps. I think ultimately it's up to what you want. Like advised earlier, unless you really want to go to a school that requires calc., then don't kill yourself over something if it's not down your alley. Take a dance class or something fun instead.
 
MB in SD said:
Calculus owns people because it tests your problem-solving abilities. This is most likely why a lot of the top schools require it.
Calculus certainly gives one an idea of the math underlying how much of the world works, from economics to congestive heart failure. You can bet those that rated it "the most worthless class they took" did so because they got owned and frustrated about how it took a chunk out of their GPA.
BTW, if you take a worthwhile Stats class, you'll need some calculus background to understand the all important p-value (which is an integrated value).
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Right, becuase everyone knows that if calculus can "own you" then not only will you do well in all your other pre med courses, but you'll definitely get into med school. Guess what, if med schools don't require calc (for the most part) then that means you DON'T NEED IT TO SUCCEED IN MED SCHOOL. Besides, calc is the only course that tests your problem solving abilities. And most top schools DON'T require it. If you want to do intensive research, then sure, it'll be useful (debatable) but for the most part, it's useless, dry, and won't contribute to medical school preparedness or well-roundedness. Top research schools will train you with everything you need to know to do research, because they want you to be a big name from their school.
 
Calc I is a joke- really not much harder than HS math (it requires memorization and application). Calc II is much harder because it requires intuition and creativity- like synthesis in Orgo II, but more difficult.

You shouldn't worry about Calc I
 
Biscuit799 said:
Right, becuase everyone knows that if calculus can "own you" then not only will you do well in all your other pre med courses, but you'll definitely get into med school. Guess what, if med schools don't require calc (for the most part) then that means you DON'T NEED IT TO SUCCEED IN MED SCHOOL. Besides, calc is the only course that tests your problem solving abilities. And most top schools DON'T require it. If you want to do intensive research, then sure, it'll be useful (debatable) but for the most part, it's useless, dry, and won't contribute to medical school preparedness or well-roundedness. Top research schools will train you with everything you need to know to do research, because they want you to be a big name from their school.
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Once again,

I will say that all of you who say Calc is not required by most top schools are wrong. It has been said on almost every single website I have looked at for a med school, with the exception of University of Michigan Ann Arbor that Calc I is required as one of 2 semesters of math. Some don't directly say it but when you email admissions people they say you need it. So please look it up on the websites before you say that most don't need it, because contrary to belief I have always seen it as required to get to med school.
 
UseUrHeadFred said:
Not unless you like that sort of thing.

There are a handfull of schools that require calc. Make sure you don't want to go to one of them.
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I agree with this person. I took it anyways (for my major) but it was not a requirement at any of the 10 schools i interviewed at or the school i matriculated in.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!
 
gujuDoc said:
Once again,

I will say that all of you who say Calc is not required by most top schools are wrong. It has been said on almost every single website I have looked at for a med school, with the exception of University of Michigan Ann Arbor that Calc I is required as one of 2 semesters of math. Some don't directly say it but when you email admissions people they say you need it. So please look it up on the websites before you say that most don't need it, because contrary to belief I have always seen it as required to get to med school.
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🙄 Sure, they'll recommend you take it, but NO, YOU DON'T NEED IT FOR ALL THE TOP SCHOOLS.

Yale - http://medapps05.med.yale.edu/msa/msa_web.procrqmt#minimum
Stanford - http://med.stanford.edu/md/admissions/preparation.html
UCSF - http://www.medschool.ucsf.edu/admissions/requirements.aspx
Cornell - http://www.med.cornell.edu/educatio...ype1=2Select&name2=Requirements&type2=3Active

Some schools DO require calc (even a year of it - like Duke), but it's a gross exaggeration to say that all the top schools require it.
 
So what? If I got a summer off take at least one course just for the sake of it? its not like I hate or suck at math its that "does it make a difference" question that comes up. For the most part I'm pretty strong when it comes to GPA, extra curric, and research. I'm not one of those people obssesed with John Hopkins, Harvard, you know the big schools. All I want is to be a oncologist or endrocinologist working at a hospital not one of those Debakey or Mike Cooley uber doctors (maybe, sounds tempting hahahha). Please reply.
 
This isn't hard- if you don't really care about getting into competitive schools, don't worry about calc. When schools "recommend" a course it's just like a big hint saying "this will put you at a competitive advantage". If the rest of your app is very strong, you don't need that advantage to get in to more competitive schools.
 
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