Do I need more research for T20s?

[YoungMoneyMint]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I’ve done 2 Summer Research Programs (1 online) and 150 hours of during-the-semester bench research, adding up to ~900 hours. I have 2 abstracts, 2 poster presentations and a mid-author pub coming (hopefully before June.) I really want to spend the rest of my time before I apply doing service work with the National Health Corps as a Vaccine Ambassador to underserved communities, but I’m worried I don’t have enough research to cut it for T20/T30s. My application is going to be education/public health heavy, so I don't think I'm going to mention much about research in my PS.

FWIW: I’m at a 3.87 (3.95sGPA)/516, White Male, CA. Other than research, I have lots of tutoring, I started a club to teach OChem, spent a summer mentoring underprivileged high school students, built websites for the BLM protests, and I’m going to be doing a stint with the National Health Corps/AmeriCorps to dispel myths/common misunderstandings about the COVID vaccine to underserved communities close to where I live.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@Goro @Moko

 

[Goro]

Seems fine to me.

 

[Moko]

I’ve done 2 Summer Research Programs (1 online) and 150 hours of during-the-semester bench research, adding up to ~900 hours. I have 2 abstracts, 2 poster presentations and a mid-author pub coming (hopefully before June.) I really want to spend the rest of my time before I apply doing service work with the National Health Corps as a Vaccine Ambassador to underserved communities, but I’m worried I don’t have enough research to cut it for T20/T30s. My application is going to be education/public health heavy, so I don't think I'm going to mention much about research in my PS.

FWIW: I’m at a 3.87 (3.95sGPA)/516, White Male, CA. Other than research, I have lots of tutoring, I started a club to teach OChem, spent a summer mentoring underprivileged high school students, built websites for the BLM protests, and I’m going to be doing a stint with the National Health Corps/AmeriCorps to dispel myths/common misunderstandings about the COVID vaccine to underserved communities close to where I live.

The strength of your application will be in your service and public health experiences. You won't stand out with your research, but it will be sufficient for research-heavy schools. Just my thoughts.

 

[DoctorFate]

I’ve done 2 Summer Research Programs (1 online) and 150 hours of during-the-semester bench research, adding up to ~900 hours. I have 2 abstracts, 2 poster presentations and a mid-author pub coming (hopefully before June.) I really want to spend the rest of my time before I apply doing service work with the National Health Corps as a Vaccine Ambassador to underserved communities, but I’m worried I don’t have enough research to cut it for T20/T30s. My application is going to be education/public health heavy, so I don't think I'm going to mention much about research in my PS.

FWIW: I’m at a 3.87 (3.95sGPA)/516, White Male, CA. Other than research, I have lots of tutoring, I started a club to teach OChem, spent a summer mentoring underprivileged high school students, built websites for the BLM protests, and I’m going to be doing a stint with the National Health Corps/AmeriCorps to dispel myths/common misunderstandings about the COVID vaccine to underserved communities close to where I live.

Your MCAT score is a bit below the median of most T20s, which is going to make it harder to get into a T20. In my experience, any MCAT score below a 518 noticeably increases the need for extremely good ECs to be accepted to a T20. whereas once you hit 518 or 520, they just need to be "very good" instead of "stunning".

There are exceptions, such as Pitt. But I'm talking about the noticable majority of T20 schools.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@sadwinter Would you recommend a retake? My score was fairly even (129/128/129/130), so I'm a little bit worried about scoring lower, but I don't think my ECs are stunning enough to compensate for the lower MCAT.

 

[DoctorFate]

@sadwinter Would you recommend a retake? My score was fairly even (129/128/129/130), so I'm a little bit worried about scoring lower, but I don't think my ECs are stunning enough to compensate for the lower MCAT.

You definitely don't need to retake the MCAT to get into a med school, and I even think you have a decent shot at most T30s except UVA.

Personally, I would think carefully about retaking. How much effort did you put in the first time? 4 weeks? Or 4 months? If the latter, retaking might mean your score dropping. Since you got a 516, you want to aim for a 520 minimum if you retake (and 518 at absolute worst) for a shot at T20s. Its up to you to decide whether that time investment is worth it and whether that is an achievable goal for you.

Another piece of advice I'll give is understand what your goals are and what it takes to achieve them, rather than just following the "vast majority". I withdrew from last application cycle prior to decision to improve my application specifically so I could make T10 and I reapplied this year. It seemingly is working (1 T20 II last year, 5 so far this year). Every single person advised against that. Literally every single one. I have 0 regrets.

People will generally recommend against retaking a 516, as the risk is greater than the reward, by their standards. This was my case too as a reapplicant. Yet, I took that risk, and I am absolutely thrilled with the reward so far.

 

[jojofu]

I had weaker research than you and currently sitting on 6 T20 IIs. I would say your MCAT might make it a little tougher though.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I had weaker research than you and currently sitting on 6 T20 IIs. I would say your MCAT might make it a little tougher though.

Did your T20 interviews spend a lot of time discussing your research?

 

[RicochetThis]

Tossing my two cents in as I’m currently attending a T20.

Applied with lower GPA, a little higher MCAT. ORM from a “tough for premeds” state. One pub, a few abstracts, and a couple of posters. At this point I think it would be more worth it to bolster the other parts of your application rather than getting more research - but that’s just my opinion.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Tossing my two cents in as I’m currently attending a T20.

Applied with lower GPA, a little higher MCAT. ORM from a “tough for premeds” state. One pub, a few abstracts, and a couple of posters. At this point I think it would be more worth it to bolster the other parts of your application rather than getting more research - but that’s just my opinion.

Did you take any gap years? If so, how did you spend those years?

 

[Jag33]

I’ve done 2 Summer Research Programs (1 online) and 150 hours of during-the-semester bench research, adding up to ~900 hours. I have 2 abstracts, 2 poster presentations and a mid-author pub coming (hopefully before June.) I really want to spend the rest of my time before I apply doing service work with the National Health Corps as a Vaccine Ambassador to underserved communities, but I’m worried I don’t have enough research to cut it for T20/T30s. My application is going to be education/public health heavy, so I don't think I'm going to mention much about research in my PS.

FWIW: I’m at a 3.87 (3.95sGPA)/516, White Male, CA. Other than research, I have lots of tutoring, I started a club to teach OChem, spent a summer mentoring underprivileged high school students, built websites for the BLM protests, and I’m going to be doing a stint with the National Health Corps/AmeriCorps to dispel myths/common misunderstandings about the COVID vaccine to underserved communities close to where I live.

How did you locate an online research opportunity?

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

@Jag33 I was accepted into a SURF program just before COVID hit, so the program transitioned to online.

 

[Jag33]

@Jag33 I was accepted into a SURF program just before COVID hit, so the program transitioned to online.

gotcha... congrats!

 

[jojofu]

Did your T20 interviews spend a lot of time discussing your research?

Actually we discussed research a lot less than I would have expected. Maybe they just see me in a different appealing light.

 

[DoctorFate]

Did your T20 interviews spend a lot of time discussing your research?

tbh, my T20 interviews really just focused on two things. 1. what are you like, as a person? 2. What special attribute do you bring to our schools?

If you choose research for #2, then your interview will focus on your research more. If you said something else, then it will focus on something else. Personally, I focused on my somewhat unique comp sci/data sci skill set, which I demonstrated via research, so my interviews typically focused on my skill set directly, and then asked about my research as related to that skill set.

 

[deleted1114112]

Another piece of advice I'll give is understand what your goals are and what it takes to achieve them, rather than just following the "vast majority". I withdrew from last application cycle prior to decision to improve my application specifically so I could make T10 and I reapplied this year. It seemingly is working (1 T20 II last year, 5 so far this year). Every single person advised against that. Literally every single one. I have 0 regrets.

People advised against that because you effectively burned a time, money, and year of your life for no reason other than superficial 'prestige' increase that, assuming you could have gotten into a T40 school the cycle before (which it does sound like you were going to, but correct me if I'm wrong) is objectively pointless.

"So I could make T10" just reeks of those kids who know they want ortho massgen since the womb or want run a dermatology private practice in LA since high school. None of which, fyi, require a T10 not to mention T20 education.

 

[DoctorFate]

People advised against that because you effectively burned a time, money, and year of your life for no reason other than superficial 'prestige' increase that, assuming you could have gotten into a T40 school the cycle before (which it does sound like you were going to, but correct me if I'm wrong) is objectively pointless.

"So I could make T10" just reeks of those kids who know they want ortho massgen since the womb or want run a dermatology private practice in LA since high school. None of which, fyi, require a T10 not to mention T20 education.

GPA 3.988, sGPA 4.0, MCAT 518, Aiming for T10-T20, Gap year advice needed

Hi all, Looking for some guidance on what to do moving forward. I’m in my final year of undergrad and recently got my MCAT score back (518). I have an LM 75.9 and WARS 85, conservatively. The 2017 WARS doc gave me an S level rating and recommended I make 45% of my applications to Category 1...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Here's a more detailed breakdown of why I reapplied. On top of wanting to get into a better school, I will be paying for med school entirely by myself. I have a much better shot at substantial scholarships this year than last. You're right. Last year, I most likely would have been accepted to a T30 with no scholarship or a T50 with small to moderate scholarship (50k total). This year, I am aiming to get into a T10, hopefully maybe even T5 with at least a 50% scholarship. Worst case, I'm looking at a T30 with a full scholarship and I have a moderate chance at a T20 with a full scholarship. Best case, I get into a T10 or T5 with a full tuition scholarship. Combined with the 50k I am making in my gap year, this decision could save me about 450k maximum and 250k minimum (as scholarship money is neither taxed nor gathers interest, while money used to pay off loans goes through both).

Plus, during this gap year, I am not only doing everything I mentioned in that post, I am also genuinely having fun. I accomplished a lot in undergrad. To do so, I took 4 hard sciences every semester for my first 2.5 years. That left very little time to actually explore things outside of academics until the latter half of junior year and my senior year, which was when COVID hit so I could do very little anyway. Now, I'm actually having a great time. I've long had a goal to reach a certain physique before entering medical school, and now I have the free time to do it. I'm extremely happy with my life.

Pretty much every single thing you said is wrong.

But I understand why you said it, because for the vast majority of people it would be true. That's why I never blindly urge people to follow such a path. Even in my post linked above, I stressed first and foremost "Understand what your goals are and what it takes to achieve them. Its up to you to decide whether that time investment is worth it and whether that is an achievable goal for you." For me it pretty much undoubtedly was, whether in terms of time, finance, prestige, and general happiness.

 

[MyOdyssey]

GPA 3.988, sGPA 4.0, MCAT 518, Aiming for T10-T20, Gap year advice needed

Hi all, Looking for some guidance on what to do moving forward. I’m in my final year of undergrad and recently got my MCAT score back (518). I have an LM 75.9 and WARS 85, conservatively. The 2017 WARS doc gave me an S level rating and recommended I make 45% of my applications to Category 1...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Here's a more detailed breakdown of why I reapplied. On top of wanting to get into a better school, I will be paying for med school entirely by myself. I have a much better shot at substantial scholarships this year than last. You're right. Last year, I most likely would have been accepted to a T30 with no scholarship or a T50 with small to moderate scholarship (50k total). This year, I am aiming to get into a T10, hopefully maybe even T5 with at least a 50% scholarship. Worst case, I'm looking at a T30 with a full scholarship and I have a moderate chance at a T20 with a full scholarship. Best case, I get into a T10 or T5 with a full tuition scholarship. Combined with the 50k I am making in my gap year, this decision could save me about 450k maximum and 250k minimum (as scholarship money is neither taxed nor gathers interest, while money used to pay off loans goes through both).

Plus, during this gap year, I am not only doing everything I mentioned in that post, I am also genuinely having fun. I accomplished a lot in undergrad. To do so, I took 4 hard sciences every semester for my first 2.5 years. That left very little time to actually explore things outside of academics until the latter half of junior year and my senior year, which was when COVID hit so I could do very little anyway. Now, I'm actually having a great time. I've long had a goal to reach a certain physique before entering medical school, and now I have the free time to do it. I'm extremely happy with my life.

Pretty much every single thing you said is wrong.

But I understand why you said it, because for the vast majority of people it would be true. That's why I never blindly urge people to follow such a path. Even in my post linked above, I stressed first and foremost "Understand what your goals are and what it takes to achieve them. Its up to you to decide whether that time investment is worth it and whether that is an achievable goal for you." For me it pretty much undoubtedly was, whether in terms of time, finance, prestige, and general happiness.

What did you do in your gap year?

 

[deleted1114112]

GPA 3.988, sGPA 4.0, MCAT 518, Aiming for T10-T20, Gap year advice needed

Hi all, Looking for some guidance on what to do moving forward. I’m in my final year of undergrad and recently got my MCAT score back (518). I have an LM 75.9 and WARS 85, conservatively. The 2017 WARS doc gave me an S level rating and recommended I make 45% of my applications to Category 1...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Here's a more detailed breakdown of why I reapplied. On top of wanting to get into a better school, I will be paying for med school entirely by myself. I have a much better shot at substantial scholarships this year than last. You're right. Last year, I most likely would have been accepted to a T30 with no scholarship or a T50 with small to moderate scholarship (50k total). This year, I am aiming to get into a T10, hopefully maybe even T5 with at least a 50% scholarship. Worst case, I'm looking at a T30 with a full scholarship and I have a moderate chance at a T20 with a full scholarship. Best case, I get into a T10 or T5 with a full tuition scholarship. Combined with the 50k I am making in my gap year, this decision could save me about 450k maximum and 250k minimum (as scholarship money is neither taxed nor gathers interest, while money used to pay off loans goes through both).

Plus, during this gap year, I am not only doing everything I mentioned in that post, I am also genuinely having fun. I accomplished a lot in undergrad. To do so, I took 4 hard sciences every semester for my first 2.5 years. That left very little time to actually explore things outside of academics until the latter half of junior year and my senior year, which was when COVID hit so I could do very little anyway. Now, I'm actually having a great time. I've long had a goal to reach a certain physique before entering medical school, and now I have the free time to do it. I'm extremely happy with my life.

Pretty much every single thing you said is wrong.

But I understand why you said it, because for the vast majority of people it would be true. That's why I never blindly urge people to follow such a path. Even in my post linked above, I stressed first and foremost "Understand what your goals are and what it takes to achieve them. Its up to you to decide whether that time investment is worth it and whether that is an achievable goal for you." For me it pretty much undoubtedly was, whether in terms of time, finance, prestige, and general happiness.

You said "I withdrew from last application cycle prior to decision to improve my application specifically so I could make T10." My comments were on that basis, and they're valid; withdrawing or declining a T30 A for a T10 A a year later is strictly just a terrible idea.

If you needed another year for mental health reasons, physical health reasons, to get more money, etc. (although I don't really understand how you improved your merit scholarship chances, since those are automatic, unless you retook and got a much higher MCAT score) that is a completely valid reason. I think many people overlook the value of taking gap years for just stress/health reasons. I myself did the same especially after COVID, albeit not after already applying. Congrats on your success.

 

[DoctorFate]

You said "I withdrew from last application cycle prior to decision to improve my application specifically so I could make T10." My comments were on that basis, and they're valid; withdrawing or declining a T30 A for a T10 A a year later is strictly just a terrible idea.

If you needed another year for mental health reasons, physical health reasons, to get more money, etc. (although I don't really understand how you improved your merit scholarship chances, since those are automatic, unless you retook and got a much higher MCAT score) that is a completely valid reason. I think many people overlook the value of taking gap years for just stress/health reasons. I myself did the same especially after COVID, albeit not after already applying. Congrats on your success.

yea haha sorry. Good point. I try to avoid long dissertations on here both for my sake and everyone else's so I shortened it down to the main reason in my original comment on this thread. And thank you!

What did you do in your gap year?

Do you mean between my first and second application (not my gap year), or currently (my gap year)? The verb tense is confusing me, as my gap year is current, not in the past.

 

[MyOdyssey]

yea haha sorry. Good point. I try to avoid long dissertations on here both for my sake and everyone else's so I shortened it down to the main reason in my original comment on this thread. And thank you!


Do you mean between my first and second application (not my gap year), or currently (my gap year)? The verb tense is confusing me, as my gap year is current, not in the past.

Your ongoing gap year