Do I need to be a board certified neuropsych...

[sydb1367]

If I plan to work in private practice?
Do I need to do 2 years post doc to be a neuropsych in private practice?


Here’s the deal, I live in a city with only 1 np job (at the hospital’s rehab dept) and no post docs in np. There’s about 8 neuropsychs in town (1 at the hospital, 7 in practice).
Currently, I am doing my internship at a DIV 40 approved capic site (while it is neither apa nor appic approved, it meets all their requirements save for funding). My plan is to do 1 year np post doc then move back home and begin building a practice. I realize I’ll likely have to work in some clinical setting to start, although, it will not be specifically np.
Would I be better off doing a 2 year pd somewhere else (and thus be eligible to be boarded), then return home to build my practice? Or 1 year PD, then come back and have that extra year in my community to build my reputation/practice?
thanks.

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[stigmata]

Neuropsych is the one sub-specialty branch of psychology where boarding is the norm and you would put yourself at a great disadvantage business-wise to move forward without getting properly boarded. However, there are many psychologists w/o board certification who perform certain aspects of neuropsych, myself included, but I would never present myself as a neuropsychologist unless I decided to get boarded.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The majority of people who do at least some neuropsychology-related work do not get boarded, though it would be in the clinician's best interest to get boarded if they plan on working regularly in one or more areas of neuropsychology. I am slightly biased towards boarding because I have seen how much training, experience, and mentorship is needed to attaining boarding (ABPP), and I think it is the best way to ensure competency.

sydb1367, if you plan on working primarily in neuropsychology, you should try to secure a 2-yr fellowship in neuropsychology.

 

[sydb1367]

thanks guys. so you really think non-boarding will make it hard to work in practice. hrmmm.🙄

but do all boards require a two year post doc?

The American board of Professional Neurospych seems to be vague on the subject : "Although it is recognized that there are different routes that one can take to obtain training and supervision, the credential review is to insure that the training is adequate, but does not require specific training programs or approaches"

no mention of 2 years.

I can't get ABPP anyways cause my school's not APA. 🙁
know of any other boards?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

thanks guys. so you really think non-boarding will make it hard to work in practice. hrmmm.🙄

Probably not, especially if you find your niche.

 

[stigmata]

agreed

 

[sydb1367]

@JonSnow. hasn't the door to abcn already been shut, by virtue of coming from a non-apa school and/or non apa internship? am I mistaken?

limited quality? because my site doesnt pay us or apa, but does meet all their other requirements, and is approved by div 40, makes it limited? how so?

I am trying to ascertain what is the best way (from this pt forward) to reach my goal as (at the very least) a competent & successful neuropsych in private practice. The question being whether the year following my 1st yr of post-doc is better spent doing another year of formal PD (sacrificing a year in my community to establish myself/build a practice), or moving into practice (sacrificing a year of formal training). It sounds like as competency and success (in a business sense) can be viewed as separate goals, the answer depends on which one is more important. I guess I should also mention, that regardless of whether I did a 2nd year of formal PD, I would work with my mentor, an established neuro-psych, under her supervision. So while it wouldn't be a formal training setting, I also wouldn't be out there on my own, so to speak.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

- site doesn't have resources to get apa approval (for internship). . . though, I'm a bit confused on this one. How can they have division 40 approval, but not APA approval. Division 40 is part of APA. Further, if they have div 40 approval, it seems you should be fine with regards to ABCN? Does Division 40 approve internships? I didn't think so.

According to the Houston Guidelines, the trainee pursuing a neuropsychology fellowship/residency previously completely an APA-acred. internship and graduated from an APA-acred. psychology program.

Basically, you have many people out there that are clinical psychologists that give tests that neuropsychologists use, write an integrated report, leave out all of the brain stuff, and call themselves neuropsychologists.

The above happens quite frequently, and I'd guess that the vast majority were never fellowship trained, which is counter to the Division 40 guidelines. IMHO, if someone wants to be a neuropsychologist, they should pursue the best possible training to prepare themselves.

 

[sydb1367]

that's encouraging, sounds like abcn is still an option for me. Looks like the scale has tipped towards pursuing the 2 year pd.

my internship site provides the abcn didactics (e.g. neuroanatomy, np assessment, neuropath) as well as some other exciting trainings, like weekly brain autopsy, neurology grand rounds, case presentations with neurologists and nps.

as for div 40 approval, Jon, looks like you are right, the list on their site is a "self-declared" designation, not a div 40 accredidation.

thanks again for the input.

 

[futureapppsy2]

From the Div. 40 site, it looks like they only list programs, internship sites, and post-docs, not approve/accredit them. This means that not all sites Div. 40 lists are APA or APPIC approved, just that the program consider themselves to be neuropsych-focused.

The listing below consists of programs that are self-declared as offering training in neuropsychology. This listing is provided as a service to students and training programs in neuropsychology. Division 40 does not endorse, approve, or accredit any of these programs. Nor does Division 40 insure the accuracy of the information in this listing. Users are encouraged to contact the program director for additional information and/or confirmation of the information provided in this list.

http://www.div40.org/training/index.html

 

[Neuro-Dr]

Having gone through both boards and served in the exec com of one, let me give you my opinion. ABCN is not realistic given your credentials. It doesn't really matter whether you had good training (aweful to say, I know); but ABCN does not consider non-APA schools or internships anymore. Their point is that no external body has verified your credentials. Div 40 is a non-reviewed membership, CAPPIC is a non-reviewed membership (as is APPIC frankly). If you don't do a formal 2-year post doc, ABPN will not look at you either. There are few APPCN fellowships and you are unlikely to get one.

I agree with Jon that you need that additional training more than most. You can pick up a lot of training on fellowship and that will serve your future patients well and will likely give you a shot at ABPN in the future. Unlike Jon, I am still quite pleased with this credential and they are WAY more fun at parties.

Only 20%-25% of neuropsychologists are boarded, so most don't do it. You need the training as much as the pedigree. This is just my opinion; but I've been training fellows for 10 years and I know the learning curve.

 

[sydb1367]

Hmmm, guess I should check with abcn as to whether I am board eligible from non-apa school (though we might get it before I graduate, *fingers crossed*) and/or non apa-internship. Cause if you look at the site, they say:

An earned doctorate in psychology from a regionally accredited institution.


and there is no mention of apa accredidation for internship.

 

[Neuro-Dr]

Like most things in life, it helps if you read everything...

Approval of Application

Application materials (including transcripts, letters of recommendation, etc.) should be forwarded to the ABPP central office along with the initial application fee. Application materials are reviewed by ABPP central office in regard to meeting general ABPP eligibility guidelines as follows:

• An earned doctorate in psychology from a regionally accredited institution.
• The equivalent of three years of experience in the specialty area, met by:
• three years of experience, only one of which can be predoctoral, or
• one year of pre- or postdoctoral experience and successful completion of an accredited postdoctoral program in the specialty.
• Two years of supervision in the practice of the specialty, met by:
• two years of postdoctoral supervision, or
• one year of predoctoral and one year of postdoctoral supervision, or
• successful completion of an accredited postdoctoral program in the specialty.
• Licensed for independent practice in the individual's state or province, which practice must be ethical and professionally responsible within applicable laws.

Once approved by ABPP, the applicant's materials are then forwarded to the ABCN eligibility committee which determines eligibility specific to Clinical Neuropsychology. Applicants who have completed a re-specialization program in clinical neuropsychology will be held to the criteria or standards in place at the date of completion of their re-specialization program, not the date of their original Ph.D. The criteria used are as follows:

For persons receiving their doctoral degree, or respecialization, after 1/1/05:
• Training conforms to guildelines of The Houston Conference (PDF).*
• Houston Guidelines require that the residency be the equivalent of 2 years and completed on at-least a half-time basis. ABCN will accept minor deviations from these requirements that may arise based on medical, personal or professional factors. Under these circumstance the candidate must provide written documentation from the residency director that the candidate:
1) left the residency in good standing,
2) met all requirements of the residency,
3) obtained the requisite skills and knowledge base described by the Houston Guidelines.
• ABCN will not require that the faculty of the 2-year residency include a board certified neuropsychologist (as stipulated in the Houston Guidelines). However, under these circumstances the candidate may be asked to provide a curriculum vitae for their primary neuropsychology supervisors.
• Canadian Guidelines

From th HCG...
IX. Internship training in clinical neuropsychology.
The purpose of the internship is to complete training in the general practice of professional psychology and extend specialty preparation in science and professional practice in clinical neuropsychology. The percentage of time in clinical neuropsychology should be determined by the training needs of the individual intern.
Internships must be completed in an APA or CPA approved professional psychology training program. Internship entry requirements are the completion of all graduate education and training requirements including the completion of the doctoral dissertation.