DO looking at programs full of FMG's

[docabc123]

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I am looking for a place to do my residency, and seeing a lot of community based ACGME internal programs that have few if any Americans in them. Are these programs considered to be biased against DO's? Are they biased against americans?

I am asking so I do not waste my time doing an audition rotation at a place that won't accept me for those reasons. Logically I would assume that they can not get quality US allopathic applicants, and thus would be open to DO's but I have no idea.

 

[gutonc]

Don't bother with audition rotations. The MD world doesn't get the same stiffy over them that the DO world does.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

docabc123 -- I assume you mean internal medicine.

this is the thought process I used when applying:

1) fellowship list -- can I get from point A to B ?
2) location -- can I live here ?
3) heard any red flags with respect to scut, call, etc from friends?
4) have they accepted people with my credentials in the past?

For an away, find a place that satisfies 1-3 (especially 1) and hope to make a difference in 4)

 

[docabc123]

Audition rotations aside, do programs full of foreign graduates accept DO's, or do they share the same bias that other residencies with no osteopathic graduates have? I am not concerned about doing a fellowship after. My intention is to practice as a hospitalist after residency.

I am less concerned about doing an audition rotation, and more concerned on my probability of getting into a residency. How do you find out if they accept people with your credentials? I have no friends in these programs to ask, and doubt the program directors will respond honestly to these questions.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

docabc123--

If you know you want to do hospitalist post-residency, pressure is off.

You just need to matriculate into a program in a place where you can live and doesn't have any serious problems.

I don't want to start a flame war here, but a motivated MD/DO should be able to find a medicine program to fit your needs in any part of the US.

Many int med programs list their current housestaff on the dept website. Honestly, if they don't list, I would apply -- the worst that could happen is they chuck your (downloaded) app.

 

[VentJockey]

I don't think a program full of IMGs would look down on a DO. There is, unfortunately, a heirarchy of medical degrees, and it goes like this:

US MD > DO > IMG

So, if the program is full of IMGs, your DO degree will be looked upon favorably.

If you are interested in joining that program, I'd highly recommend doing an audition rotation there. If you do well, it will dramatically increase your chances of matching with them. You also get to see what the program is like in a way you never could come close to by just interviewing there.

 

[rokshana]

I don't think a program full of IMGs would look down on a DO. There is, unfortunately, a heirarchy of medical degrees, and it goes like this:

US MD > DO > IMG

So, if the program is full of IMGs, your DO degree will be looked upon favorably.

If you are interested in joining that program, I'd highly recommend doing an audition rotation there. If you do well, it will dramatically increase your chances of matching with them. You also get to see what the program is like in a way you never could come close to by just interviewing there.

i disagree a bit... there are going to be programs that prefer DOs over I/FMGs and vice versa...if a program historically takes only one or the other, they obviously have a preference...

apply...it can't hurt (other than your wallet) and if it is a place that you are truly interested in, let them know...but if you are looking to maximize your chances of matching, then look to places that historically take DOs...

 

[DrPerrla]

1. Audion/Away rotations in medicine really do not matter. It's more for you personally than it is for them. If you're really interested in a specific program and want to see how residency will be like then by all means go. Will this help you come interview season? Maybe, maybe not.

2. Like some have said, many programs have a list of their current residents and where they are from. Look at places that historically have taken DOs. If they have all IMGs and no DO's, then they probably prefer IMGs and your chances are pretty low. If they've taken 1 or 2 DOs in the last 3 years, again your chances are low. They were probably super stellar candidates.

 

[fiznat]

Don't bother with audition rotations. The MD world doesn't get the same stiffy over them that the DO world does.

Audion/Away rotations in medicine really do not matter. It's more for you personally than it is for them. If you're really interested in a specific program and want to see how residency will be like then by all means go. Will this help you come interview season? Maybe, maybe not.

This might be better advice for USMD applicants (i.e. those who have a home program and can get a LOR from a teaching attending within that program) than it is for DO applicants (who generally do not have a home program). As a DO applicant who matched ACGME IM this past year, I did one audition/sub-I rotation because I felt I needed to have a LOR from an established academic program so that my application would not be missing something that most of the other applicants had. If I decided not to do an "away" rotation like that, my ERAS application would have only included LORs from the private physicians I worked with at community hospitals which did not have residency programs in IM. Some program directors might wonder if these physicians were simply my friends (some of them were), or if they really had the perspective to write a good LOR (since these physicians don't work with residents and only rarely see medical students). Honestly based on my personal experience, those are probably valid concerns. The sub-I I did in IM was much more rigorous and standardized compared to those I did in 3rd year, and my LOR was informed both by the author's significant experience with medical students as well as multiple assessments that were submitted about me from various residents, attendings, and nurses over the weeks I worked there. I won't get into the details, but that is a very different approach than was taken by the private physicians who wrote some of my other LORs.

Of course I don't have any hard confirmation that my strategy was effective other than the fact that I matched, but I did notice that my letter from that rotation was mentioned a few times at interviews and I personally feel like this is something DO applicants should consider.