Do "Lower Tier" Schools Hold off on Exceptional applicants?

[droshan]

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I've heard from several people that certain schools with lower stat averages tend to hold off giving interviews to spectacular candidates or outright reject them because they know that they will just end up going somewhere else and wasting the interview on them when someone else would die to go there. On the other hand I've also heard that schools will rush to send this applicants interviews as early as possible in hopes of nabbing them quickly. What do you guys think is the case?

 

[JamesBond15]

I've heard from several people that certain schools with lower stat averages tend to hold off giving interviews to spectacular candidates or outright reject them because they know that they will just end up going somewhere else and wasting the interview on them when someone else would die to go there. On the other hand I've also heard that schools will rush to send this applicants interviews as early as possible in hopes of nabbing them quickly. What do you guys think is the case?

a little bit of that.. a little bit of this.

 

[fizzle]

It's "fit," a much-thrown-about but little-understood term. I think that schools generally have some sort of agenda, whether it be aggressively pushing research onto medical students or striving to be the best primary care hospital. Exceptional students, I'd guess, are likely to be more research-oriented in their application, and lower-tier schools may see this kind of applicant as a bad "fit" if their research position doesn't appear to be as strong as the applicant might want.

 

[Handy388]

two of my first three interviews take place at research heavy schools, when I have completed a lot of research but not as much clinical stuff.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've heard from several people that certain schools with lower stat averages tend to hold off giving interviews to spectacular candidates or outright reject them because they know that they will just end up going somewhere else and wasting the interview on them when someone else would die to go there. On the other hand I've also heard that schools will rush to send this applicants interviews as early as possible in hopes of nabbing them quickly. What do you guys think is the case?

This is more lore than fact. This kind of thing spreads on the internet when someone with high stats cannot believe they got rejected from what they perceive as a "lower tier" school. They cannot fathom that their 3.7/37 didn't wow a school with an average of 3.6/32. But in fact, as mentioned above, it's all about "good fit". Lots of people with high stats aren't a good fit, even on paper. Others, through their essays or when they go to interviews, act arrogant and like they are doing schools a favor by interviewing there, assume they are a shoo-in, or otherwise don't take it seriously, and guess what, they don't get in. And so that's how these rumors start. People in this process are quick to deflect blame -- they cannot imagine it has anything to do with them and so they are quick to believe and report that they are too good for the schools, or that the process is so random, or one of the other handful of myths. In fact, in most cases there were reasons the school decided these applicants weren't a good fit wholly apart from the numbers. That's why you need to apply widely and broadly -- not every school is going to agree with your view of what's a good fit.

 

[droshan]

This is more lore than fact. This kind of thing spreads on the internet when someone with high stats cannot believe they got rejected from what they perceive as a "lower tier" school. They cannot fathom that their 3.7/37 didn't wow a school with an average of 3.6/32. But in fact, as mentioned above, it's all about "good fit". Lots of people with high stats aren't a good fit, even on paper. Others, through their essays or when they go to interviews, act arrogant and like they are doing schools a favor by interviewing there, assume they are a shoo-in, or otherwise don't take it seriously, and guess what, they don't get in. And so that's how these rumors start. People in this process are quick to deflect blame -- they cannot imagine it has anything to do with them and so they are quick to believe and report that they are too good for the schools, or that the process is so random, or one of the other handful of myths. In fact, in most cases there were reasons the school decided these applicants weren't a good fit wholly apart from the numbers. That's why you need to apply widely and broadly -- not every school is going to agree with your view of what's a good fit.

I don't know if that was directed to me...but check out my MDapps I definitely applied broadly and I take all and any interviews seriously and happily. But I must say in a way the process is random in the sense that no one knows which schools will find you to be a "fit" for them. Hell, I don't know why the two schools I got interviews at saw me as a good fit either...and I'm not complaining. Also there are a lot of other factors that don't show up like the mood of the reviewer of your app or a similar interest that compells him/her to recommend you to the committee. You can't deny that these factors exist...they are human.

 

[FlowLimited]

I don't know if that was directed to me...but check out my MDapps I definitely applied broadly and I take all and any interviews seriously and happily. But I must say in a way the process is random in the sense that no one knows which schools will find you to be a "fit" for them. Hell, I don't know why the two schools I got interviews at saw me as a good fit either...and I'm not complaining. Also there are a lot of other factors that don't show up like the mood of the reviewer of your app or a similar interest that compells him/her to recommend you to the committee. You can't deny that these factors exist...they are human.

I don't think Law2Doc was directing his comments to you or anyone in particular.

 

[ayushman80]

I think the OP is on to something here. There are many schools who simply get your primary application, have you fill out a secondary with no essays (essentially asking for money), and then reject you outright before you even get an interview. I guess that these schools can get a lot out of your primary app as far as your fit. But I would think that interviewing an exceptional candidate would reveal far more about fit than only what is on the paper. You just can't fit everything in that amcas essay. Oh well, such is the way things are.

 

[drizzt3117]

My experience is that this is quite common, no one likes being someone's backup.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

My experiences speaking with various adcomms regarding their selection processes in feedback sessions support L2Doc as well. Each school is looking for different things in a candidate, it would be nearly impossible to be a great candidate at every school given the different "essential traits" that make up what a school is seeking in a candidate; some might seek intercultural experiences such as living abroad, others seek research/publications background, some want people from a specific geographic region or who have ties to the region, some value broad shadowing background, some want non-clinical volunteer experience, all in addition to hitting gpa/mcat thresholds.

Think about the logic of this as well - do adcomms really say - "that candidate is just too highly qualified for a second rate school like ours", or are they more likely to feel that a highly qualified candidate's strong interest in their school indicates that their efforts to build a top-rate school are starting to pay off?

Question for the top-ranked candidate at the lower ranked school - how have you shown commitment to attend this school through the interview, and does the interviewer (or admissions office reading secondary essays) clearly know that you understand this school's mission and focus, value this focus, and this school is one of your top selections?

 

[DrYoda]

When I applied to "low-tier" schools I made sure I only applied to them in my state and neighboring states. I was figuring my proximity would make them take my app more seriously. I don't know if it made any difference in their decisions, but they all offered me interviews.

 

[Lacheln]

The process is not random, it's just not transparent. On SDN we love to try to figure out what's behind the curtain, but there's no way you really can because we don't have all the info. I'm pretty positive that schools don't have inferiority complexes, but it's pretty funny to see people with awesome stats rationalize their rejections. (As someone with crappy stats, let me get my fun where I can. 😉)

 

[droshan]

The process is not random, it's just not transparent. On SDN we love to try to figure out what's behind the curtain, but there's no way you really can because we don't have all the info. I'm pretty positive that schools don't have inferiority complexes, but it's pretty funny to see people with awesome stats rationalize their rejections. (As someone with crappy stats, let me get my fun where I can. 😉)

I agree...what I mean is that we don't know which schools are going to like us and what they are each looking for. So when you apply it is random which schools will like you and which ones won't...there is not really any way for us to know which schools like what. And once again, I really think once in a while you are subjected to factors that don't show up on paper...for instance, a reviewer has gone through a bunch of apps already and is tired once he gets to yours. At that point, unless you reaalllly wow him, he is much less likely to think you are impressive. On the other hand if you caught him on a good day where he is in a happy mood he may think you are great and give you a strong recommendation. I'm not saying that will make or break you but it certainly will have an influence on their decision. I've also heard several times from my peers that sometimes at their interview they have someone with a common interest and that they spend much of their time talking about that and the interviewers eats that s#$% up. THAT is another random factor that could give you a huge boost.

I think people keep arguing with me about the randomness of this process because they think I am taking away from their hard work and achievements. I'm not and if you got an interview then you definitely deserve it. I'm simply saying that no matter how strong or weak your stats are there are random factors that will ultimately influence your ability to get into a particular school. (hence why I went through the trouble of applied to ~40 schools).

As for the statements that its people that have awesome stats are rationalizing I can see where you are coming from but it doesn't apply to the people I've heard this from. One, a physician from England that sits on an admissions committee for a residency program (in the US) for 15 years and my friend in med school that had very low stats but was fortunate to get into a DO program (also has parents that are physicians). I consider myself the average applicant and don't see why someone with amazing stats would have a reason to rationalize because even if they didn't get into a "lower tier" school they would most likely be taken from a high ranking school unless they are completely socially inept or only apply to like 3 ivy league schools.

Lastly, I never said that there are schools that have inferiority complexes but I'm pretty sure that they are aware that someone with stellar stats would most likely (I'm not saying all) choose to go to a top 10 school over their school. Are you honestly saying that knowing that doesn't influence their decision to interview and/or accept an applicant when there are many others that would love to go there? I know if I was a adcom member I would consider that I wouldn't waste an interview and/or acceptance on someone that I knew would most likely go somewhere else. I would give it to someone who would be enthusiastic, shows a lot of interest, and has a high probability to matriculate at my school. Why waste our faculty's time on someone who thinks of you as a "backup." Of course someone could have awesome stats and show a lot of interest...in that case I would definitely extend interviews and acceptances. Of course, this is just my opinion.