DO matching in NYC

[rgerwin]

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So after my psych rotation I am seriously considering it. However, I have only taken the COMLEX (518). Assuming that I get good clinical grades, is it possible to match into a halfway decent psych program in the NYC area? I could take the USMLE 2 if anyone thought that would be helpful. We are a pass/fail school, and I've never failed anything, so my first 2 year grades are fine.

 

[rgerwin]

Anyone?

 

[Abacab]

I don't know about NY since I'm on the opposite coast in CA. However, I do know that there are some DOs I've seen scattered around various programs here in my state. California's a competitive state just like I imagine NY is, so it seems feasible for you to match into a more than halfway decent program...maybe 3/4 decent?

Plus, psych is not the most competitive of specialties...I was a very average student in med school and had no trouble matching in my desired location.

I don't know what a 518 means on the comlex but if your score is average or higher, I think you're very much in the running. If not too taxing of a task, you should take the usmle step 2. If nothing else, it makes it easier for programs to compare you directly to other applicants.

Why not do a couple of away rotations at programs you might be interested in? Show off your stuff, get a couple of letters in the process and shatter any DO stigmas they may have. Good luck.

What about DO psych residencies? Are they around anywhere?

 

[rgerwin]

Thanks! Not really too many DO psych residencies period. I was surprised. Well, the national average for COMLEX is 500, passing is 400, so I guess I would call 518 not embarrassing. Thanks!

 

[strawberryfield]

I'd say your chances are probably fine if you apply broadly. I am applying this year for psych but not in NY. I have gotten many interview offers as a DO student. I did take the USMLE but scored avg on step 1, slightly above avg on step 2. Did above avg on both steps of COMLEX. I would note that you cannot take USMLE step 2 without taking USMLE step 1, in case you were considering that. You might look at the interview thread and see if any other applicants are DO students that have gotten NY interviews.

Regardless of any of that mess above 🙂 good luck

also, I applied allo only for residency

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I would note that you cannot take USMLE step 2 without taking USMLE step 1, in case you were considering that.

I'm not sure the above statement is true. Unless they changed the rules this year, you CAN take the USMLE Step 2 without taking Step 1. This has been a known fact for years.

You cannot, however, take USMLE Step 3 before any of the other steps.

 

[rgerwin]

Yeah, you can step 2 w/out 1. I know those who have done it. The difference is you took step 1, average score or not. I'm applying NYC area for family reasons. I think it will be fine and I do plan on step 2.

 

[Scorcher31]

Hey rgerwin I'm also a DO student and I can tell you that I have had no problem getting allopathic psych interviews as a DO student. I applied only to east coast programs although no New York programs. I know of at least one very good DO psych program though so don't sell them short either although i know there are very few DO psych programs.

Your comlex 1 grade is fine. Mine was very similar; however, I did have a very good step 2 comlex grade, how much that matters I don't know. Are you a 3rd year or a 4th year? You should really get step 2 under your belt if you are a 4th year. There is no need for you to take USMLE at all in any but the most competitive specialties anymore. Try and get good letters of rec from 2 psych attendings if you can.

I honestly don't think being a DO student affects invites at all to allopathic programs, but that’s just me. If you are a 4th year, don't worry east coast seems to get out interview requests later than pretty much everywhere else. I would also suggest digging up a min of 20 residencies to apply to so you may have to branch out from NY a tiny bit. Ideally if you are not super confident I would think you want a good 6 interviews+ if you can help it.

 

[Scorcher31]

I hope that helps a little rger and if you have any questions feel free to private message me anytime. I would be happy to discuss specifics with you, but would prefer not to give too much information on the forum so I dont run into a residency director who knows of me through SDN, which is probably fine but could be a tad akward.

 

[clement]

I honestly don't think being a DO student affects invites at all to allopathic programs, but that’s just me. If you are a 4th year, don't worry east coast seems to get out interview requests later than pretty much everywhere else. I would also suggest digging up a min of 20 residencies to apply to so you may have to branch out from NY a tiny bit. Ideally if you are not super confident I would think you want a good 6 interviews+ if you can help it.

Mt. Sinai and Columbia aren't too DO-friendly from what I've gathered. Then again, those programs are competitive for everyone...Still, they haven't taken a DO either in a looong time or ever to my knowledge.

 

[Scorcher31]

Fair enough I should have said it does not greatly influence invites in most programs 😛. As I said I only applied to PA, NJ, MA, CT, Providence. I did not apply to New York so I am not familiar with the programs. I actually had to start turning down interviews at this point so I've felt confident that being a DO hasn't really hurt me. I was trying to boost rgerwin's confidence a bit for her applications.

I also know for a fact that some IVY schools do interview DO students for psych, whether they accept may be a different story alltogether.

 

[HCE]

I also know for a fact that some IVY schools do interview DO students for psych, whether they accept may be a different story alltogether.

Yes some do. New York's Ivy League school does not. Don't waste the application fee.

 

[rgerwin]

I have very little interest in ivy's. I'm much more suited to quality programs that are a bit smaller. So, if there are enough of those in the NYC area, then I'm all set. Thanks!

 

[clement]

I have very little interest in ivy's. I'm much more suited to quality programs that are a bit smaller. So, if there are enough of those in the NYC area, then I'm all set. Thanks!

My understanding: Yes, there are enough of those programs (plenty) in the NYC AREA. As a general rule, just be willing to look outside of Manhattan for the vast majority of them (to increase your odds). This does not mean you would be compromising on quality at all, but rather the brand-name prestige factor, IMO.

It's all mostly just a PR thing. NYC Ivy PD's, some of their residents, and a number of their Manhattan non-Ivy rivals are pretty intense about FMG/DO filters, as they believe it will tarnish their credibility in the eyes of a select US MD applicant pool. YOU can filter out most of these programs (again, IMO) by judging them from the meet-our-residents pages they like to publish online.

As a general rule (not always true), Ivies that will consider DO's may not publish the token "Meet-Our-Ivy-Residents" list online. A couple of the Manhattan schools will take super-star FMG's, but still shun DO's. My personal opinion on that is some specialties that have non-physician competitors (psych, gas, optho) want to uphold the MD association more so than others. Still, I emphasize that those programs don't form the vast majority on the East Coast at least (the other coast is another story).

A few years ago, there was some resident uproar at a top tier NYC school that took a mix of over-qualified FMGs and a DO after a long period of only taking US MDs. So I think those types of reactions help reinforce filters even when a PD reverts to more progressive approaches in who he or she takes.

Then again, take all advice (including mine) with several grains of salt, as there is that sector of DO applicants that believe you should apply to historically DO-unfriendly places anyway and pioneer the process. I don't totally disagree with them, however, in Manhattan, these types of top-tier schools have the added incentive of location, so they can pretty much trash even the strongest applications with no rhyme or reason.

 

[rgerwin]

area, as in boroughs?

 

[clement]

area, as in boroughs?

precisely. boroughs beyond the disneyland that is manhattan...brooklyn, queens/long island, the bronx.
solid education with an often more diverse pt pop + a more decent cost of living for the most part = 😀 resident.

 

[HCE]

area, as in boroughs?

I would include St. Vincent in Manhatten in your search...seems like a good progam, and D.O. friendly.

http://www.svcmc.org/body.cfm?id=662

Same with St. Luke's Roosevelt

http://www.wehealny.org/psych/index.html

 

[rgerwin]

I had thought of them too. I believe they both are. I'm fairly certain st. vincent's does a lot with NYCOm students, and I think St. Luke's has taken DO's in many of their residencies. They are the size and type of programs I think I would fit well with, so definitely high on my list.

 

[clement]

Yes some do. New York's Ivy League school does not. Don't waste the application fee.

As an interesting caveat to this that should have been pointed out, those same NY psych Ivy programs in fact take DO's for fellowships, in case anyone was wondering...They also have DO faculty members 😀

Side note on St. Vinny's to look into further: There was some mention somewhere (not way too long ago) about the program entering a period of "rough terrain." I don't remember if it was financial issues or otherwise, but definitely something to inquire about when talking to current residents.

 

[rgerwin]

I think St. VIncent's shut down or was absorbed into another hospital.

 

[PsychedOut]

I think St. VIncent's shut down or was absorbed into another hospital.

St. Vincent's-Manhattan is alive and well and is a very D.O. friendly program. One of the chief residents this year is a graduate of NYCOM. Several years ago, the hospital system filed for bankruptcy but did re-emerge about two years ago after selling off some of the affiliated hospitals. There are several residents from LECOM, NYCOM, and PCOM in the program.

The program previously known at St. Vincent's-Staten Island is now called New York Medical College (Richmond) on FREIDA and is affiliated with Richmond University Medical Center.

I also know that Beth Israel and St. Luke's-Roosevelt are D.O. friendly.

 

[rgerwin]

I wrote St. Vincent's manhattan. I was mistaken. Their neuro program told me the USMLE was preferred, but not required. Thoughts on this, in general and/or regarding psych? Can I use step 2?