Do MCAT scores matter for Residency matching ?

[GopherMD]

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Someone completely missed the point, I'm sure you did ok on the VR



Big 3 would be pushing it. I would say Big 2 (SGU and AUC). If you're counting Ross as Big 3 then that's a bad idea. Ross has a horrific attrition rate, they practically accept anything that breaths.

I thought the point was don't go to the Caribbean unless you can't get into a US school (or have a bias against being a DO)?

Edit: and want to risk $250k+ in debt

 

[487806]

Yeah. I edited my previous post. Even though there's no way in hell I would ever go to any of those 2 schools, they can get the job done right now. No one knows of the future but SGU is playing games to hold onto residency spots by paying hospitals so who knows.

That is completely a moot point since you're an MD/PhD student at US....

 

[487806]

I thought the point was don't go to the Caribbean unless you can't get into a US school (or have a bias against being a DO)?

Edit: and want to risk $250k+ in debt

Not even close.

 

[GopherMD]

Well that's the point I'm gonna make haha

 

[RockinRoll]

That is completely a moot point since you're an MD/PhD student at US....

True but I was trying to say that if I was a premed with not so good stats even then I would not go there. I'd pick DO, I just can't picture myself leaving the country for a MD degree when in the end I'm going to end up with a possibly worse residency slot than a DO.

SGU and AUC have similar attrition rates? What about St. James and Sabas?

Well SGU and AUC have high % of class matriculants matching into residencies (making it into medical school and a residency program). As I stated previously close to 85 % of the students that enter SGU or AUC as first year medical students become resident physicians (PGY-1). That however provides an incomplete story because it does not account for their performance and success in residency. There have been cases where residents have had their contracts terminated prior to completing their residency (which is a nightmare) but it's not too common.

 

[487806]

There have been cases where residents have had their contracts terminated prior to completing their residency (which is a nightmare) but it's not too common.

How is that even possible? Doesn't that apply to any resident?

 

[GopherMD]

How is that even possible? Doesn't that apply to any resident?

I've heard of that happening as well. Mostly horror stories on the Internet.

 

[RockinRoll]

How is that even possible? Doesn't that apply to any resident?

Yes it applies to any resident but I'll bet you 100 bucks that most terminated residents are FMGs and not US grads. Unfortunately, I don't have any data to prove that point but the main reason why residents get terminated early can be due to language barriers to lack of performance to rubbing the wrong person the wrong way. I can assure you that even the big 2 (SGU and AUC) do not always provide their students with the best clinical rotations compared to US grads and clinical rotations correlate with residency performance which has been proven. Therefore, it can possibly be valid to conclude that foreign grads have a higher chance of being terminated from residency programs than a US resident.

http://www.lsuosig.com/docs/Correla... With Subsequent Performance as Residents.pdf

 

[xrevision]

There are less unfilled spots this year than ever, including primary care fields. As US class sizes expand the FMG's are going to be squeezed out. MDs and DOs will share residency positions in the near future, so if you're thinking about going carribean I wouldn't do it. In addition to this there are about 10 new medical schools opening which will add another 700-1000 allopathic graduates to the Match pool. 4 Years from now with SGR and curbing the growth on medicare we can't assume that there will be more residency spots. P.S. I've seen those "match" statistics from the carribean schools and many of them are primary care at unimpressive locations/programs, and a TON of pgy-1 only spots. This is only getting worse for FMGs.

Disclosure - I say this as an M4 who recently matched from a US Allopathic school.

 

[KnuxNole]

There are less unfilled spots this year than ever, including primary care fields. As US class sizes expand the FMG's are going to be squeezed out. MDs and DOs will share residency positions in the near future, so if you're thinking about going carribean I wouldn't do it. 4 Years from now with SGR and curbing the growth on medicare we can't assume that there will be more residency spots. P.S. I've seen those "match" statistics from the carribean schools and many of them are primary care at unimpressive locations/programs, and a TON of pgy-1 only spots. This is only getting worse for FMGs.

Disclosure - I say this as an M4 who recently matched from a US Allopathic school.

FP this cycle had a lot more unfilled spots than I thought(120 something is what the NRMP site said IIRC). That probably doesn't mean much in terms of the future, but I found that fact kinda odd 😳

 

[xrevision]

There were approximately 40,000 applicants for 28,000 spots. Thats a lot of people in the SOAP, with what I'm sure is a bias to US grads even if there are 120 family spots. There were 150 spots available last year.

 

[KnuxNole]

There were approximately 40,000 applicants for 28,000 spots. Thats a lot of people in the SOAP, with what I'm sure is a bias to US grads even if there are 120 family spots.

Oh right...that is a good point.

I feel bad for people in SOAP....it sounds scary 🙁

And ahh didn't know there were more last year. I think the reason I believe what I originally wrote is cause when I read information last year, it mentioned the no. of programs with unfilled positions as opposed to no. of unfilled positions.

I think I need another beer, I already spent 10 mins talking about the match :X

 

[xrevision]

I think most telling of this match is that there were 130 or so prelim medicine spots last year and only 70 or so this year.

 

[Siggy]

Don't go to the carib, OP. The back door is closing rapidly.

Actually...

That's what she said.

 

[thesauce]

Yes it applies to any resident but I'll bet you 100 bucks that most terminated residents are FMGs and not US grads. Unfortunately, I don't have any data to prove that point but the main reason why residents get terminated early can be due to language barriers to lack of performance to rubbing the wrong person the wrong way. I can assure you that even the big 2 (SGU and AUC) do not always provide their students with the best clinical rotations compared to US grads and clinical rotations correlate with residency performance which has been proven. Therefore, it can possibly be valid to conclude that foreign grads have a higher chance of being terminated from residency programs than a US resident.

http://www.lsuosig.com/docs/Correla... With Subsequent Performance as Residents.pdf

I agree that's probably the trend, but I'll bet the reason is even simpler than that. Programs with a history of terminating residents are discovered and labeled as "malignant" and avoided like the plague. Unfortunately, these residencies that the US grads avoid are the ones that FMGs are competitive for. So they end up at those programs and run a higher risk of being terminated.

 

[SilverCat]

Tons and tons of people go to Carib schools, if they cant get a residency then why do these schools still exist ? Pretty sure if what u guys are saying is true, then Carib schools wouldn't exist or even be accredited in the US

They exist to make money for themselves. They aren't accredited in the US.

Take a careful look at their match lists, and ask these questions in the Caribbean forum.

 

[RockinRoll]

I agree that's probably the trend, but I'll bet the reason is even simpler than that. Programs with a history of terminating residents are discovered and labeled as "malignant" and avoided like the plague. Unfortunately, these residencies that the US grads avoid are the ones that FMGs are competitive for. So they end up at those programs and run a higher risk of being terminated.

That makes sense. Is there a database or something to look up "malignant" residency programs? If not how exactly do you find out other than having a keen eye?

 

[thesauce]

That makes sense. Is there a database or something to look up "malignant" residency programs? If not how exactly do you find out other than having a keen eye?

Word of mouth from others in your specialty, mostly. There's a thread on the general residency forum that mentions several of them.

 

[RockinRoll]

Word of mouth from others in your specialty, mostly. There's a thread on the general residency forum that mentions several of them.

http://malignantresidency.com/list/index.php?topic=2.0