DO, MD or MDO - what would you prefer?

[julia645]

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The "conversion to MD" thread leaves out the third option of a middle ground between the degrees. Some of the proposed degrees have been: MDO, MD/DO, DOM, O-MD, etc. I'm really curious to see how this option might change the opinion of those who voted for MD (or for DO) in the other poll.

 

[Fin-Nor]

stop these insanely ******ed threads.

we are DO's. u dont like DO degree? i suggest u venture into the allopathic boards.

 

[DragonWell]

stop these insanely ******ed threads.

we are DO's. u dont like DO degree? i suggest u venture into the allopathic boards.

👍 Or at least keep it in Pre-DO where there's plenty of other worthless threads to keep it company.

 

[Dr JPH]

I always thought fancy titles and initials just confused things too much.

How about "doc".

"Hey doc...nice work taking out my gallbladder."

Yep. Thats it.

 

[voltron77]

The "conversion to MD" thread leaves out the third option of a middle ground between the degrees. Some of the proposed degrees have been: MDO, MD/DO, DOM, O-MD, etc. I'm really curious to see how this option might change the opinion of those who voted for MD (or for DO) in the other poll.

Is this really necessary? I am an allopathic student and have friends who are both in allopathic and osteopathic school. This is really insane......some people are so hung up on those two letters.......you're going to be a doctor......enough said!

 

[Static Line]

Is this really necessary? I am an allopathic student and have friends who are both in allopathic and osteopathic school. This is really insane......some people are so hung up on those two letters.......you're going to be a doctor......enough said!

It's not necessary and yes it is insane. The MDO things comes from people who will never be happy and shouldn't have come to an osteo school. (MDO crowd = allo reject) In the long run they would be much happier having gone to an island carrib school.

And wow, what a concept, they call all of us "doc"

Keep DO as it is and MDO crowd stop whinning about it. Honestly, I have to say that doctors are among the whinniest group of professionals I have ever met and some on here exemplify it.

 

[froggiepremed]

The "conversion to MD" thread leaves out the third option of a middle ground between the degrees. Some of the proposed degrees have been: MDO, MD/DO, DOM, O-MD, etc. I'm really curious to see how this option might change the opinion of those who voted for MD (or for DO) in the other poll.

MDO = Mother's Day Out at my church...is that what you mean?

 

[ceftazidime]

To everybody that says "lets keep it as DO", does it not bother you that in Australia and most of Europe, a DO is not allowed to prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, or other complex procedures aside from OMM? This is because in these regions, osteopaths do not learn the vast amount of medical information that US osteopathic medical students do. Yet we still get the same degree, despite the fact that we study MEDICINE as rigorously as the average allopathic school. If you wanted to practice in one of these countries, you would have to jump thru a lot of hurdles to convince them that you are not the same as a European DO.

 

[Dr JPH]

To everybody that says "lets keep it as DO", does it not bother you that in Australia and most of Europe, a DO is not allowed to prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, or other complex procedures aside from OMM?

I dont know where you are getting your information from, but that is absolutely incorrect. There is an online registry but unfortunately it hasnt been updated in years and much of the information is outdated.

England and Ireland are really the only prominent nations still only allowing DOs to practice "manipulation only" practices.

Australia does indeed allow US trained DOs to practice unlimited, as does Germany, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Spain, France to name a few.

This is because in these regions, osteopaths do not learn the vast amount of medical information that US osteopathic medical students do.

That is true.

If you wanted to practice in one of these countries, you would have to jump thru a lot of hurdles to convince them that you are not the same as a European DO.

The hurdles are the same for US trained MDs wanting to practice in most foreign countries. Look up the requirements for any foreign physician to become licensed in Israel...quite difficult.

 

[djnels01]

To everybody that says "lets keep it as DO", does it not bother you that in Australia and most of Europe, a DO is not allowed to prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, or other complex procedures aside from OMM? This is because in these regions, osteopaths do not learn the vast amount of medical information that US osteopathic medical students do. Yet we still get the same degree, despite the fact that we study MEDICINE as rigorously as the average allopathic school. If you wanted to practice in one of these countries, you would have to jump thru a lot of hurdles to convince them that you are not the same as a European DO.

No, it doesn't bother me at all actually. I plan on practicing medicine here in the US, the only trips to Europe I'll be taking will be for vacation~

P.S. - Ditto to what JP said...

 

[GreenShirt]

To everybody that says "lets keep it as DO", does it not bother you that in Australia and most of Europe, a DO is not allowed to prescribe drugs, perform surgeries, or other complex procedures aside from OMM? This is because in these regions, osteopaths do not learn the vast amount of medical information that US osteopathic medical students do. Yet we still get the same degree, despite the fact that we study MEDICINE as rigorously as the average allopathic school. If you wanted to practice in one of these countries, you would have to jump thru a lot of hurdles to convince them that you are not the same as a European DO.

1) Very few degrees mean the same thing across international borders or require equivalent education. A B.A. doesn't mean the same thing here as in Europe, a masters doesn't either....etc.

2) Any American physician would have to "jump through hoops" to practice medicine in Europe. You have to become liscensed in the country you want to practice and do everything that their students are required to do...which doesn't involve taking the USMLE.

3) If you are planning to practice medicine in Europe, I recommended looking up EU regulations regarding the matter and pursue an appropriate course of action. The majority of the DO population will not be moving oversees to pratice, so what a DO can and can't do in Andorra or Belgium is largely irrelevant to the practice of medicine in the U.S.

If you want an MD...the simple solution is to attend an MD-granting institution. Much easier than lobbying SDN to change another degree.

 

[mig2k]

I vote for OMD. Damn fine band.

 

[CommanderRiker]

M.D. No doubt about it. 😎

 

[Dr JPH]

M.D. No doubt about it. 😎

And youre stuck going to a DO school.

That sucks.

 

[bkpa2med]

And youre stuck going to a DO school.

That sucks.

 

[Taus]

these threads show up a few times a year....save your energy and don't even bother giving it any thought b/c regardless of how you feel about its extremely unlikely that anything will ever happen.....you'd be much better served saving that brain power for studying and becoming an excellent DO

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

England and Ireland are really the only prominent nations still only allowing DOs to practice "manipulation only" practices.

.

We have conquered England!
https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_oms0106global

 

[DocBR]

And youre stuck going to a DO school.

That sucks.

 

[ceftazidime]

1)
If you want an MD...the simple solution is to attend an MD-granting institution. Much easier than lobbying SDN to change another degree.

It appears you don't quite understand the issue here. It's not about getting an MD, it's about getting an MDO (or something along those lines). Do you believe that all we study is osteopathy, and no medicine? Any DO student who cares so much about getting the MD could've easily went to a Carribean medical school, but they chose not to. The reasons are numerous, but for me it's because I wanted to learn something extra about healing the body non-invasively. Unfortunately, when I start my residency in 2 years, the average person will glance at my coat and not immediately understand that I went to a medical school. If it was changed to MDO, then sure, some might ask "why is there an O?", and then you could explain to them what osteopathy is. Isn't that better than them saying "why are you not an MD?" and then having to go thru the whole explanation that a DO is equivalent?

We are not just letters, we are osteopathic physicians. So why is there such a vehement opposition to correctly displaying what we are?

 

[Static Line]

It appears you don't quite understand the issue here. It's not about getting an MD, it's about getting an MDO (or something along those lines). Do you believe that all we study is osteopathy, and no medicine? Any DO student who cares so much about getting the MD could've easily went to a Carribean medical school, but they chose not to. The reasons are numerous, but for me it's because I wanted to learn something extra about healing the body non-invasively. Unfortunately, when I start my residency in 2 years, the average person will glance at my coat and not immediately understand that I went to a medical school. If it was changed to MDO, then sure, some might ask "why is there an O?", and then you could explain to them what osteopathy is. Isn't that better than them saying "why are you not an MD?" and then having to go thru the whole explanation that a DO is equivalent?

We are not just letters, we are osteopathic physicians. So why is there such a vehement opposition to correctly displaying what we are?

Poor argument. Just not true. I have walked into many rooms with patients and introduced myself as,"student doctor static line" They have never looked at me and said, "what is a DO?" They have said,"you're in training?" and that makes for a good conversation starter. When you walk into an exam room and introduce yourself as "doctor so and so" they will be looking at your face, not some degree whose initials have been stitched onto your white coat. In fact, many times you hear people joke about all the initials a doctor has after his name. These people don't know any difference and they don't care. You do, that is why you, not them, are making a big deal about your initials. This conversation and thread is now😴😴😴😴😴

 

[ceftazidime]

First of all, you didn't answer any of my questions, and secondly, my experiences are different from yours. By the way, what state do you live in? I would imagine in MI and PA, many people already know what a DO is, so no questions are necessary. Like you, I also see patients, and in my experience, I've received comments like "are you eventually going to go to medical school?" and "so you're planning on becoming an optometrist".

 

[Static Line]

😴😴

First of all, you didn't answer any of my questions, and secondly, my experiences are different from yours. By the way, what state do you live in? I would imagine in MI and PA, many people already know what a DO is, so no questions are necessary. Like you, I also see patients, and in my experience, I've received comments like "are you eventually going to go to medical school?" and "so you're planning on becoming an optometrist".

 

[ceftazidime]

Well, tell that to the nearly 50% of people that do want the change. Why do you insist on maintaining an inaccurate designation? You go ahead and sleep while we take action.

 

[Dr JPH]

Well, tell that to the nearly 50% of people that do want the change.

Those people knew what degree they would be getting when the enrolled. Tough $hit for them I guess.

 

[Static Line]

Those people knew what degree they would be getting when the enrolled. Tough $hit for them I guess.

Also, possession is 9/10 of the rule, and right now we have it, and won't go down without a fight.

 

[scpod]

Why do you insist on maintaining an inaccurate designation? You go ahead and sleep while we take action.

Which really sounds sillier to you?

A) Having two degree designations that have existed for over 100 years, despite currently practicing nearly identical medince

or

B) Changing the name of the degree because it might sound better

Yes, callgirl probably does sound more appealing than hooker or *****, but they all mean the same thing. Changing the name doesn't really have any effect. MDs and DOs are both physicians. People who are sick want a physician...end of story.

 

[toothless rufus]

I vote for OMD. Damn fine band.

 

[Static Line]

Yes, callgirl probably does sound more appealing than hooker or *****,

Dr. House likes, "Hooker" 😀

 

[spicedmanna]

You know, I'm just at the very beginning of this path here, but I really don't understand the utility of a name change from DO to something even more obscure like MDO, DOM, or OMD. Doing something like that could potentially make it worse, in my opinion. I mean, if the problem, as some would proclaim, is that folks don't know what a DO is, do you really think they'll understand what a MDO, DOM, or OMD is any better? Come on, get real, here. If you do that, you'll likely be losing any positive associations that people might already have with the DO designation.

Anyway, I'm not convinced that patients care; they just want a competent physician to treat them. I think the outside package can't hide what is within. If you really are a physician, you'll look like one, act like one, and talk like one. You are a physician. That's all you need.

 

[Dr JPH]

What it really comes down to is that people want the letters "MD" in there somewhere.

You dont see anyone pushing for a change to "OP" (osteopathic physician) or something along those lines.

You have a case where people who couldnt get the MD degree want to get one after the fact.

Well guess what, its too late. You had the opportunity to get the MD degree and either by choice or by poor performance on the MCAT it didnt happen.

A name change wont add any validity to our profession nor will it clear up any percieved confusion.

What you have here is a group of osteopathic and pre-osteopathic students who are upset at the fact that they have to settle for a DO degree. Imagine that, someone settling for becoming a doctor. 🙄 But thats what you have.

You can cite all the off-the-wall examples you want about patients asking what a DO is and nonsense like that but I dont buy any of it.

If youre that self conscious about it, dont put the "DO" on your coat. Simply put "Dr. A. Shamed" instead.

I, for one, will proudly display "DO" on my coat, letterhead and business cards. I am not upset at the fact that I am graduating from a DO school. I am not worried that I will be treated like a second class physician. I dont sulk and put my head down when I am telling people where I go to school.

You have these people with raised voices saying "DO = MD...but lets change the name to reflect that". Well, if thats the case then youre more worried about your outward appearance than you are with your own knowledge and accomplishments.

Here you are, a fully licensed physician and the biggest thing you are concerned with is if some patient in a hospital bed is going to question the letters behind your name. God forbid you actually move past that, do your damn job and cure the patient. No...that doesnt matter...because as long as that person thinks you are equal to an MD, well nothing else matters. 🙄

**** that. I dont want to be an MD. I want to be a DO. Thats why I went to a DO school.

If youre not happy with your future degree then drop out now. I can guarantee there are people out there who would gladly "settle" for the chance to become a physician.

 

[spicedmanna]

^ Well said, JP.

 

[Static Line]

What it really comes down to is that people want the letters "MD" in there somewhere.

You dont see anyone pushing for a change to "OP" (osteopathic physician) or something along those lines.

You have a case where people who couldnt get the MD degree want to get one after the fact.

Well guess what, its too late. You had the opportunity to get the MD degree and either by choice or by poor performance on the MCAT it didnt happen.

A name change wont add any validity to our profession nor will it clear up any percieved confusion.

What you have here is a group of osteopathic and pre-osteopathic students who are upset at the fact that they have to settle for a DO degree. Imagine that, someone settling for becoming a doctor. 🙄 But thats what you have.

You can cite all the off-the-wall examples you want about patients asking what a DO is and nonsense like that but I dont buy any of it.

If youre that self conscious about it, dont put the "DO" on your coat. Simply put "Dr. A. Shamed" instead.

I, for one, will proudly display "DO" on my coat, letterhead and business cards. I am not upset at the fact that I am graduating from a DO school. I am not worried that I will be treated like a second class physician. I dont sulk and put my head down when I am telling people where I go to school.

You have these people with raised voices saying "DO = MD...but lets change the name to reflect that". Well, if thats the case then youre more worried about your outward appearance than you are with your own knowledge and accomplishments.

Here you are, a fully licensed physician and the biggest thing you are concerned with is if some patient in a hospital bed is going to question the letters behind your name. God forbid you actually move past that, do your damn job and cure the patient. No...that doesnt matter...because as long as that person thinks you are equal to an MD, well nothing else matters. 🙄

**** that. I dont want to be an MD. I want to be a DO. Thats why I went to a DO school.

If youre not happy with your future degree then drop out now. I can guarantee there are people out there who would gladly "settle" for the chance to become a physician.

Furthermore, as a follup up to a great post that should be stickied, these non-cometitive (doesn't mean unqualified) people screaming for the name change ought to be grateful to their DO school, and the AOA who gave them a shot when no other school did. I for one chose DO and will not sit idly by and let anyone take it from me.

 

[Dr JPH]

Furthermore, as a follup up to a great post that should be stickied, these non-cometitive (doesn't mean unqualified) people screaming for the name change ought to be grateful to their DO school, and the AOA who gave them a shot when no other school did. I for one chose DO and will not sit idly by and let anyone take it from me.

Exactly.

The people who are pushing for the change are primarily the people who used a DO school as a last resort.

They should indeed consider themselves lucky that someone was willing to give them a chance at becoming a doctor...without them having to learn spanish and captain a flotilla of old tires to the Carribean.

 

[Dr JPH]

I want to pose a question to the 27 or so people who voted for "MDO, OMD, etc"

Why did you chose to attend a DO school in the first place?

And, if your answer is "because its the same as an MD", then why push for the name change?

I just dont see the point.

If you chose the DO school over an MD school for another reason, then you knew you would be getting a DO degree.

I am amazed at the lack of general knowledge about osteopathic medicine, even by our 1st & 2nd year students.

I have actually heard first year DO students pronounce it "osteoPAthy" instead of "osteOpathy". Ive met students who didnt know they had to take the COMLEX and those who didnt realize we had our own residency programs.

Quite pathetic

 

[beastmaster]

During OMM one day, my partner for the session asked me if I was interested in making a switch to MDO or some similar ridiculous designation. I refused. I explained how proud I was that this country has two medical bodies working in cooperation, the beauty of choice and competition in a market system, etc. I then said a few other things... All he replied was, "you're the first one who said no." Never underestimate how popular a stupid idea can be.

 

[Dr JPH]

Never underestimate how popular a stupid idea can be.

The funniest part of this is that none of these people are ever going to ascend the ranks into the AOA leadership. They are so upset and disheartened at the osteopathic community (the same community that allowed them to become a physician) that they go off to their practice and never look back. Yet they still take every opportunity to raise their hands and ask when a change is coming.

They are a group with ideas and insecurity but no plan, solution or desire to make change where change is needed. Their priorities are skewed and their loyalties blurred.

I had a first year student ask me once during an OMM practical "what happens if we fail OMM?"

I told her "the school is forced to give you an MD degree."

For the briefest of moments when she thought I was serious must have been the happiest moments of her life.

Then she realized she would be stuck with a DO degree. I didnt have the heart to tell her that with her performance in the practical, she likely wouldnt be stuck with ANY degree. 😉

True story. Because yes, some people are that dumb. Especially at a DO school.

 

[Static Line]

True story. Because yes, some people are that dumb. Especially at a DO school.

I think I know her. She comes to my school now, and she brought several friends with her.

They all look like this 😕😕😕 and they have blonde hair.

Everytime they speak I am like 😱

In the real world if they stepped out of their office and said, "next" and it was my family I'd be and I would leave.

 

[homeboy]

stop these insanely ******ed threads.

we are DO's. u dont like DO degree? i suggest u venture into the allopathic boards.

agreed. these polls are pointless and don't amount to any constructive discussion.

 

[nvshelat]

😴😴

How do I get all those icons?? I really want the dead horse one..

 

[Buckeye4life]

How do I get all those icons?? I really want the dead horse one..

Push the "More" icon.

 

[nvshelat]

I want to pose a question to the 27 or so people who voted for "MDO, OMD, etc"

Why did you chose to attend a DO school in the first place?

And, if your answer is "because its the same as an MD", then why push for the name change?

B/c it's annoying to explain, and when I do explain, some people just don't buy the fact that I'm gonna be a real doctor. I even applied for a summer research position at Upenn (UPenn of all places!) where the doctor I would have been working with asked me if I was in a "four year" program. (My response was, yes I am in medical school).
The thing I dont get is, the only thing that distinguishes us from MDs is OMM. We do OMM and MDs don't, so we get the title DO... but the GI doc who does scopes doesn't get the title MD-G and the cards guy MD-C. They're both still MDs. I don't understand how the performance of one set of procedures distinguishes us. Sure, they get fellowship initials after their name - but then why not have MD, FAO or whatever. Haha FAO Schwatz. That would be funny if some dudes name was Dr. Schwartz, FAO. 😆

 

[Critical Mass]

I'd rather there just be one degree for physicians. Call it whatever you want.

ceftaz, do you have a Pseudomonas infection or something? I thought Depakote was the only one around here named after a drug.

 

[Static Line]

B/c it's annoying to explain, and when I do explain, some people just don't buy the fact that I'm gonna be a real doctor. I even applied for a summer research position at Upenn (UPenn of all places!) where the doctor I would have been working with asked me if I was in a "four year" program. (My response was, yes I am in medical school).
The thing I dont get is, the only thing that distinguishes us from MDs is OMM. We do OMM and MDs don't, so we get the title DO... but the GI doc who does scopes doesn't get the title MD-G and the cards guy MD-C. They're both still MDs. I don't understand how the performance of one set of procedures distinguishes us. Sure, they get fellowship initials after their name - but then why not have MD, FAO or whatever. Haha FAO Schwatz. That would be funny if some dudes name was Dr. Schwartz, FAO. 😆

You people doin all this explaing are doing it to yourself. First, the lay public didn't know there was a difference. Then Mr Public came to see you, and YOU told him there was a difference. Then you tried to explain it. Of course it's gonna peak his curiosity but it's your fault to begin with. Someone asked me onetime what DO was, I said, "it's a medical degree." They said, "oh." That was it my friend.

Explaining a simple viral infection to someone and telling them they don't need an antibiotic is worth explaining but at the end of the day if you gave them an antibiotic they would be happier because you did something for them. They don't know better. You are the doc, not them.

You also just overloaded them with info, and they forgot everything you said. Unless you are dumb enough to use the word "hollistically" somewhere in your little speech. Then they remember you are the doc who treats people naturally which is BS. Explaining the DO degree to them is worthless, useless and makes no sense. WHY do you do it?????

I think most of you are just SOUR GRAPES because you were too stupid to get into an MD institution, and you want to do everything you can to get MD behind your name. Quite frankly, you don't deserve MD behind your names because you weren't smart enough to earn it. You bunch of ingrates also don't deserve the DO behind your name either because you are not smart enough to realize something good when it slaps you in the face.

I can't belive some of you may be a colleague of mine. I will go find a bunch of MD's to work with so I don't have to work around a bunch of whinny, cry-baby DO's.

Moderator--Close this thread.

 

[beastmaster]

I think I know her. She comes to my school now, and she brought several friends with her.

They all look like this 😕😕😕 and they have blonde hair.

Everytime they speak I am like 😱

In the real world if they stepped out of their office and said, "next" and it was my family I'd be and I would leave.

That's hilarious 😀

But yes, JP. Some of us poke fun at the DO culture in a good natured way, others harbor true hatred and have an identity crisis. So they're looking to do reconstructive surgery on our credentials to match their delusions of adequacy.

 

[Critical Mass]

I think most of you are just SOUR GRAPES because you were too stupid to get into an MD institution, and you want to do everything you can to get MD behind your name. Quite frankly, you don't deserve MD behind your names because you weren't smart enough to earn it. You bunch of ingrates also don't deserve the DO behind your name either because you are not smart enough to realize something good when it slaps you in the face.

I can't belive some of you may be a colleague of mine. I will go find a bunch of MD's to work with so I don't have to work around a bunch of whinny, cry-baby DO's.

Moderator--Close this thread.

Moderator, ban this hater.

 

[Dr JPH]

B/c it's annoying to explain, and when I do explain, some people just don't buy the fact that I'm gonna be a real doctor.

Wow. Now there is a reason I can understand.

We should alter the degree that has been around for more than 100 years, conferred by more than 25 schools and recognized internationally so that nvshelat doesnt have to waste time explaining his education to laypersons. 🙄

And not for one minute do I believe your account that a doc at UPENN doesnt know what a DO is. I call on that.

 

[Dr JPH]

I'd rather there just be one degree for physicians.

So European docs should change their degree as well if they want to practice here?

Why dont MDs change their title?

True, they are in the majority but I think it would be a nice gesture.

Afterall, it doesnt really matter right?

 

[Critical Mass]

So European docs should change their degree as well if they want to practice here?

Why dont MDs change their title?

True, they are in the majority but I think it would be a nice gesture.

Afterall, it doesnt really matter right?

Dunno if I was clear about this since you only quoted part of what I said, but I'm fine with MD's changing to something else too. I'm not claiming that DO's should switch to MD. It doesn't matter to me.

I'd probably prefer it if everybody was just licensed as a medical provider ("MP") with a level that designates what the license entails. A PA or an NP can be MP-I, primary care doc MP-2, specialist MP-3, etc. Make it a simple step-ladder system like nursing does. I don't think that doctors need to be treated as godly or greedy as the lay public seems to like to treat them.

 

[Dr JPH]

Ahh...Im sure the primary care docs would love being designated as an MP-1 while their colleagues with an additional year of training are an MP-2!



Maybe we should implement government set financial packages as well.

Personally I think I would automatically be at least an MP-3 because I know OMM and an MD family doc doesnt.

So how about this...

PAs and NPs = MP-1
MD primary care = MP-2
DO primary care and MD specialist = MP-3
DO specialist = MP-4

We could all wear different color belts based on our rank and abilities.

 

[nvshelat]

Wow. Now there is a reason I can understand.

We should alter the degree that has been around for more than 100 years, conferred by more than 25 schools and recognized internationally so that nvshelat doesnt have to waste time explaining his education to laypersons. 🙄

And not for one minute do I believe your account that a doc at UPENN doesnt know what a DO is. I call on that.

That would be rather nice, it would make me feel special. Do you think they would use my real name in the textbooks though, and not nvshelat? I would like full credit, afterall.

In seriousness, if you could address my argument instead of dissecting what you could be glib at, it would be nice. Allopathic counterparts trained in any particular service don't get different initials than MD, so why should we? Unless, of course, it's so that some paperpushers somewhere have a job. Now there is a reason that I can understand.

Believe it. I was dumbfounded myself since PCOM is all of 15 mins away. But there ya go. This degree that has been around for more than 100 years, conferred by more than 25 schools and recognized internationally still has a lot of confusion surrounding it.