Hey guys, in SDN it seems like everyone over here had Organic Chemistry as a weed out course, while in my school it is definitely Biology that causes so many students to switch out of the sciences. I was wondering if other people over here have other weed out courses as opposed to Organic Chemistry?
Do other schools have Bio as the weedout course over Ochem?
- Thread starter DrOhan
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deleted393595
Have you taken OChem yet?
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where i go to bio is a weedout class.
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I think biology weeds out a lot of the less serious students, those who just decide to major in a science on a whim. Ochem takes care of a lot of students who powered through bio but maybe just don't have the chops to make it.
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If you want a real weed out course take P-chem. Yeesh.
I actually start Ochem next quarter.
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Haha, I'm taking Pchem now, totally agree!
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Bio is the weed out course over here, unfortunately. Ochem is at least somewhat fun :/
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At my school, our Gen Bio II class was a huge weedout class. It was the only class I truly struggled with. I still have no idea how to figure out cladograms :\
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Why assume one class is a weed out course? I see it as a step-by-step weeding out process with each important class playing an integral role!
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PChem I could handle (though somewhat painfully). Analytical Chemistry, on the other hand, was the bane of my existence last summer.
To OP: A lot of people hate OChem at my university, but "Bio Diversity" was allegedly the weed out class for Bio majors.
Where I go, there is an intense two series of Biology classes that all Bio majors have to take. Ochem - only 10 people out of 125 students got an A. 5 got an A-. 30 got a B+...half the class failed. So, both.
^^^ agree!!! PCHEM is ridiculous...
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In terms of failing I'd say more people fail Bio, as it's an intro class and everybody takes it. The ones who did well/alright go into Ochem, and (at my school it has a decent percentage of people getting A's) do alright, however many of the serious people do end up dropping pre med at the Ochem stage (again, at my school).
Verdict: It's school-dependent, and Ochem is undoubtedly harder than Bio almost all the time.
Verdict: It's school-dependent, and Ochem is undoubtedly harder than Bio almost all the time.
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I loved p-chem! My p-chem professor even offered to write me a letter of rec before I even asked. I don't consider it a weed out course at all because it is taken after taking all the pre-req courses. You have already shown you can cut it before you reach that class, at least at my school that's how it worked. If you make it all the way to p-chem you aren't going to be weeded out.
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This. The entire pre-med process is a weed-out... a typical class of students might look like this:
Freshmen year/1st sem: 1000 bio/"pre-med" students
Gen Bio 1 with 20% As, 30% Bs... all below B average out of pre-med track...
Gen Chem 1...
2nd sem (after Bio 1/intro cell/micro bio): 500 bio/"pre-med" students
Gen Bio 2 with 20% As.... Only a few weeded out this time (as those who got As and Bs in 1 likely get As and Bs in 2 as well)
Gen Chem 2.... 90% of previous As and Bs still in...
Soph. Year: 450 premeds (45% remain, 55% eliminated year one)
O-Chem 1 & 2... typical Ochem curve for a course might be 10/25/50/10/5 so only 35% end up in the A/B range....
Jr Yr: 158 premeds (15.8% remain, another 39.2% were eliminated sophomore year)
MCAT: 53% of test takers actually apply (~42k out of ~80k each year)
End of Jr Yr: 83 actual applicants (8.3% yield)
42.9% of applicants actually get into medical school....
Entering Med School: 36 out of the initial 1000 applicants (3.6% yield)
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My department used to use a Zoology class as a weedout. It was one of three "Introduction to ..." classes that Bio majors had to take before we could start any of the upper level courses. My bet is that almost everyone made it through Intro to Bio and then hit Zoo like a brick wall. Most of the people I took the class with ended up switching out of cell/molecular to exercise science or ecology.
That said Chem II is still the hardest class I've ever taken, largely due to a ball busting professor. My class started with 61 people and 19 took the final. I'm more proud of the grade I earned in that class than I am of any other grade on my transcript.
Cheers
That said Chem II is still the hardest class I've ever taken, largely due to a ball busting professor. My class started with 61 people and 19 took the final. I'm more proud of the grade I earned in that class than I am of any other grade on my transcript.
Cheers
You and I both. :\
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Is that normal? I think that is a pretty high percentage of students getting A's in any class let alone Ochem...
But I think my school uses intro bio as the weedout class as well.
Holy Cowper's Gland.
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Wow. Holy mango. Is the grading so tough at your school that people legit dropped out or does the high attrition rate have more to do with people exploring other careers (ibanking, consulting, etc.)?
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Let's keep it PG, lol.
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Definetely bio I at my school b/c only about 6% got an A whereas in my organic I class 13% got an A
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I only went to a CC, but less than 10% made an A in my Biol II. I felt it was a weed out course to prevent further biology courses for anyone not committed to Science. My lab partner failed all 7 exams,(with perfect attendance) and when I asked her what her major was (I assumed science since she enrolled in Biol II) said she "Art", and she even said that she won't retake the class despite going the full length of the term. "It's just too hard." she said.
I encouraged her, "yeah but you just saw the entire course material, you could ace next try" she said "nope", regardless.
I only made a solid B, but I made easy A's in Chem II and Algebra (non-trad student)
Biology II had no curving at all. No extra credit, no bonus questions, and the most material overall by a large margin. Sink or Swim!
I encouraged her, "yeah but you just saw the entire course material, you could ace next try" she said "nope", regardless.
I only made a solid B, but I made easy A's in Chem II and Algebra (non-trad student)
Biology II had no curving at all. No extra credit, no bonus questions, and the most material overall by a large margin. Sink or Swim!
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my school uses bio 1 and 2 as a weedout class, but I think general chem and organic chem are weedouts as well. I can remember sitting in the big lecture hall with about a hundred other "biology" majors who quickly realized that they couldn't hang. id say of the 100 who started as bio there are probably about 20 who have made it to upper level division classes, and even then some of them are currently being weeded out by orgo.
I can distinctly remember our orgo professor passing exams back and one kid complaining "I studied for 5 hours how did I fail!" and she simply scoffed at him and said "5 hours is nothing"
I think it really just relates to how much people are willing to put in. your average freshman coming into school probably doesn't expect the intensity of general bio. it makes sense that it would be a weed out class. But I think the difference is you can still get by in general biology with barely studying but going to class. organic is a rude awakening for many
I can distinctly remember our orgo professor passing exams back and one kid complaining "I studied for 5 hours how did I fail!" and she simply scoffed at him and said "5 hours is nothing"
I think it really just relates to how much people are willing to put in. your average freshman coming into school probably doesn't expect the intensity of general bio. it makes sense that it would be a weed out class. But I think the difference is you can still get by in general biology with barely studying but going to class. organic is a rude awakening for many
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That must be nice. At my school they just use a flat curve... 87-90 = B+, 90-93 = A-, 93+ = A. Really stupid because some professors at my school are much more difficult than others but you need the same raw % in each class to get the same grade. In my Bio II class not a single person got an A. The highest grade was an A-. In Ochem I only 4 / 100 kids got A's/A-'s.
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Oh, but I didn't even mention the lab curves. 5% get an A/A- in Bio labs and 3% get an A/A- in Ochem labs.
Our Ochem Lab professor almost won a noble prize and after losing, he's been bitter ever since >.>
The Ochem professor is one of the best here I hear. Not a no name university either, top 25 🙂
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"weed out" implies that a class is hard simply for the sake of being hard. I took a whole lot of really hard classes...but not once did I think a teacher was purposefully driving students out.
I think the reality is that, at most institutions, the science classes are much more difficult AS A WHOLE than other more squishy soft liberal art subjects. People get A's in their intro writing and psychology 101, consider themselves geniuses, enroll in sciences and then get hammered by the volume of information and time required.
The weed out phenomenon results from this disparity between class difficulties, rather than any deliberate act. The truth is simply that most undergraduate students dont have the intelligence, work ethic, or determination (any of the three will suffice) to do well in real science courses.
Financially, it makes no sense to drive students out of huge cash cow introductory classes.
I think the reality is that, at most institutions, the science classes are much more difficult AS A WHOLE than other more squishy soft liberal art subjects. People get A's in their intro writing and psychology 101, consider themselves geniuses, enroll in sciences and then get hammered by the volume of information and time required.
The weed out phenomenon results from this disparity between class difficulties, rather than any deliberate act. The truth is simply that most undergraduate students dont have the intelligence, work ethic, or determination (any of the three will suffice) to do well in real science courses.
Financially, it makes no sense to drive students out of huge cash cow introductory classes.
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FREAKING HATE THOSE. haha
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i think the bio's definitely do the pre-weeding, organic has the final blow to their (weeded students) self-esteems and abilities.
I think a lot of the classes are weed outs, but its not like you can't retake a course or two unless you've gotten straight D's and C's in your pre-reqs. At my university Bio is a bigger weed out than the first general chemistry, a lot of kids can make at least a B- in chem I but most of my friends got a C or worse in Bio, I was pretty happy about getting a B+ to say the least that class sucked
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Ehhh... I'n my bio class 10/35 got an A. In my orgo class 1/32 got an A. I was the only one.
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Nah, our general biology class is usually just hard for the "I can make a 69.5 and still pass nursing students", but in general most people do very well.
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Oh we definitely weed-out as early as possible. With 1200 "pre-meds", all smart and hard-working, they put you through the ringer. Bio/gen chem were a nightmare, but orgo/physics reasonable (but still rough).
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Yeah, I feel like every science class I have taken has been a "weed out class" for a lot of people.
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Same here brother. My classmates in biochem were incredible. Average was high, but the range was very narrow.
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At my school, they recently made Bio 2 a prereq for Bio 1. Perhaps this is because they wish to weed out students? I'm not sure.
Bio 2 is Animal Form/Function
Bio 1 is Cell Bio/Genetics
Bio 2 is Animal Form/Function
Bio 1 is Cell Bio/Genetics
PChem I could handle (though somewhat painfully). Analytical Chemistry, on the other hand, was the bane of my existence last summer.
Agreed. I took Analytical Chemistry during Spring 2011 and barely made it out with a C+, I took Physical Chemistry during Fall 2011 and got an A after a 1.25 point curve, lol. The highest scores on the final exam were 101.25%, 99.75%, and 98.5% so she set the two highest scores to 100% and gave the entire class the difference. It was enough to bump me from an A- to an A.
OP: Organic Chemistry is definitely the weedout class for all everyone who thought they were pre-health something at my school. I sit in the front (our school is small so biggest class is still under a hundred people), well...after half of the first semester, half of the class disappeared. I would say that a lot of my entering class who are pre-health ended up majoring in Biology. The rest of us majored in either Biochemistry or Chemistry.
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The general biology sequence at my school is ridiculous.
The exams are 12+ pages, no curve, and ~2% of the class receive A-/A's.
Unfortunately, Ochem is a killer here, too.
