.

[Ms Procrastinator]

A resident made a tweet earlier saying that she was living paycheck to paycheck despite her bachelors from Yale and her MD from Harvard (nice humble brag ). It got me wondering though. How common is it for residents to be struggling financially once in residency?

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[DrStephenStrange]

A resident made a tweet earlier saying that she was living paycheck to paycheck despite her bachelors from Yale and her MD from Harvard (nice humble brag ). It got me wondering though. How common is it for residents to be struggling financially once in residency?

Some programs in big cities with high cost of living still pay residents similar salaries to programs in relatively low cost of living. I can see someone in that situation living paycheck to paycheck. For example, my friend who is about to move to Orlando is about to make 56K in intern year compared to me staying in the Midwest in a relatively low cost of living area about to start at 58K. My friend is actually still struggling to find a place to live that isn't going to cost him a fortune every month.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Some programs in big cities with high cost of living still pay residents similar salaries to programs in relatively low cost of living. I can see someone in that situation living paycheck to paycheck. For example, my friend who is about to move to Orlando is about to make 56K in intern year compared to me staying in the Midwest in a relatively low cost of living area about to start at 58K. My friend is actually still struggling to find a place to live that isn't going to cost him a fortune every month.

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

 

[NITRAS]

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

Umm. . Unless things have changed, most residents got around $50’s. I think i got high $40k my first year and a bit more into the low $50k’s.

It isn’t glamorous, but is well above the poverty limit. My wife was an RD at the time and our household income was just shy of a $100k/year. We paid down about $70k in debt in a relatively expensive area (felt expensive to us at the time) over my three years of residency.

 

[ciestar]

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

Im a PGY-2 and my PGY-3 contract has me making ~65k.

And to answer your question, yes, people definitely do struggle through residency financially.

 

[iforget2]

With how high rent has been across the country recently, it is definitely possible to be living paycheck to paycheck during residency. A lot of reddit posts in the past couple of months have popped up on rent prices, and many residents, including myself, will be paying at least 40-50% of our paychecks on rent/mortgages. And that's with me having a wife who makes a salary and living in an area that isn't considered high COL relative to places like the NE or west coast.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

No, it's not specialty dependent, more like program dependent. Residents in the same program but different specialties usually get paid the same salary based on what post graduate year (PGY) they're doing.

The highest starting salary I have seen is around 70K, and that's in the NYC area. I would still rather make 58K where I'm going than 70K in NYC.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Umm. . Unless things have changed, most residents got around $50’s. I think i got high $40k my first year and a bit more into the low $50k’s.

It isn’t glamorous, but is well above the poverty limit. My wife was an RD at the time and our household income was just shy of a $100k/year. We paid down about $70k in debt in a relatively expensive area (felt expensive to us at the time) over my three years of residency.

It’s a bit higher now, but still not great (mean national PGY1 base is around $60k).

Certain regions (particularly the South and especially Florida programs) pay a good bit less.

 

[sloop]

Umm. . Unless things have changed, most residents got around $50’s. I think i got high $40k my first year and a bit more into the low $50k’s.

It isn’t glamorous, but is well above the poverty limit. My wife was an RD at the time and our household income was just shy of a $100k/year. We paid down about $70k in debt in a relatively expensive area (felt expensive to us at the time) over my three years of residency.

As an intern, I think I was making around $56K. As a PGY-4 I was making around $65K. As a PGY-5 forensic psychiatry fellow, I make just under $70K.

Whether you’re gonna struggle financially mostly has to to with the cost of living of wherever you’re going to be located and what your lifestyle is. I trained in a city with a relatively reasonable cost of living for an east coast city. Although I’m aware of my finances, I would not describe myself as frugal. I also do not have kids and am pursuing PSLF/am on an income-based repayment plan. I have been totally fine.

 

[mrbreakfast]

The residents I knew who lived paycheck-to-paycheck generally created that problem for themselves. While that wasn't always the case, particularly in bigger cities, where rents can be astronomical, you (the generic SDN med student, who is probably relatively thrifty) have NO idea what some of your co-residents will spend money on once they get their first "real" salary. Examples I've seen include flying out of town for a weekend every month, a closet full of designer clothes, and a $70,000 car (purchased in the middle of residency).

Be reasonable, keep a budget, and you'll be fine.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Programs I interviewed at (mostly major metro areas) ranged from ~$53-72k for PGY1 (this is inclusive of housing stipends at some programs). Where I ended up (~$63k, fairly affordable though not dirt cheap cost of living) I should have enough to live comfortably (but responsibly) and do some saving. but there were a few programs where the budget could have gotten really tight.

It’s a bit higher now, but still not great (mean national PGY1 base is around $60k).

Certain regions (particularly the South and especially Florida programs) pay a good bit less.

If I had stayed at my home program in south Florida there’s zero chance I could’ve afforded to live alone, and even with roommate(s) budgets would be so tight. Rents have almost doubled from when I started med school yet many of the programs are still paying low-mid 50s, that’s just not livable around here anymore

 

[Wolvvs]

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

This can be true, and not necessarily in high COL areas. UMMS Baystate in Springfield MA, for example, starts PGY1s at ~65K which goes up to ~84K by PGY7. Only problem is you have to live near Springfield

 

[DOVinciRobot]

A resident’s salary is usually a comfortable salary for a single individual. If you have a spouse and/or children then things get really tight really fast.

So yes, most residents struggle financially.

 

[whoknows2012]

My last yr of fellowship pgy6 at a Manhattan program was 92.5k 2 yrs ago. Starting was mid 70’s for interns. When I was an intern back in 2013 in nyc starting salary was 56k. Given average rents in a high cost of living city and depending on what you’re living arrangement is, I would argue it’s possible to live paycheck to paycheck but a smart resident who lives within their means even in a high CoL city can be somewhat comfortable.

 

[LunaOri]

Yale PGY1 salary is about $73K. Other programs nearby start at $63K.

 

[deleted1100659]

I did not struggle in residency. I did REPAYE for my loans so my payments were not too bad during it. I lived in an average size city. I suspect it may be harder if you live in a bigger city like new york or chicago, but if you're one person supporting yourself off a resident salary isnt hard. Most people in america probably make less and they manage. However, if you're supporting a spouse and children then yea, I could def see that being fairly hard.

 

[operaman]

Yeah I didn’t struggle and actually managed to save quite a bit as well. I think COL is a major driver of this. I remember looking at some programs where a 1br apartment was going for $3-4k a month and even with the extra housing stipends, that was going to be right. Chose a great program in an expensive but more affordable city, didn’t buy a new car, and had more money than I could spend.

My salaries ranged from around $55-72k ish over my 5 years of residency. I could have done some moonlighting and added about her 20-40k but it just wasn’t worth the time since I wasn’t even spending what I had already.

 

[deleted1100659]

I could have done some moonlighting and added about her 20-40k but it just wasn’t worth the time since I wasn’t even spending what I had already.

this is so true, I entered residency with the mindset "going to moonlight every weekend make that $$$$" but then reality sets in and who wants to give up the free weekends they get? So not worth it to me, lol

 

[TurtleyReady4Med]

I really, really liked a DC program for residency, but there was no way I would be able to survive on a 48k salary in DC.

 

[aldol16]

If you're living in a city, yes. On average, say you're making $60k. Theoretically, you're supposed to only spend 1/3 of your gross on rent, which would be $20k/year and $1600-1700 a month. In some cities, it's hard to get an apartment at those rates that are near the hospital/not in an unsafe area. In other cities, you could service a whole mortgage payment and then some with that.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I'm not sure what the definition of struggle is? Doing some moonlighting? Unable to eat out 4 or 5 times a week? My wife and I would take zip locks to noon conferences and take food home She was an MS2 and I a Pgy1 living in an urban environment. I didn't think we were struggling. We didn't have much money, but it doesn't take lots of money to have fun.( but it helps). We made several life long friends going through med school and res training. It's quite doable, especially if you are willing to do a little extra.

 

[Tenk]

Umm, plenty of attendings struggle financially because they are not fiscally responsible, so the answer is yes.

Note: I am not one.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Umm, plenty of attendings struggle financially because they are not fiscally responsible, so the answer is yes.

Note: I am not one.

I know surgeons who worked until they were 70, and then went to the Vein Clinic. Not because they wanted to work, but because they had too. Too many ex wives and families.

Note. I am not one either!

 

[applicant202X]

A resident made a tweet earlier saying that she was living paycheck to paycheck despite her bachelors from Yale and her MD from Harvard (nice humble brag ). It got me wondering though. How common is it for residents to be struggling financially once in residency?

I saw that tweet and I don’t think she was bragging. The inclusion of Harvard and Yale were important because of the assumptions we have about those schools and the earning potential of their graduates. She’s implying that even people that go to these schools live paycheck to paycheck, despite our assumption. This is the reality of many in the US.

 

[Wordead]

If you're making 50K plus and living paycheck to paycheck without dependents you probably have a spending problem.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I really, really liked a DC program for residency, but there was no way I would be able to survive on a 48k salary in DC.

Didn't think there were programs still paying residents under 50K. And even worst, it's in the DC area. Wow!

 

[DrStephenStrange]

If you're making 50K plus and living paycheck to paycheck without dependents you probably have a spending problem.

Let's imagine a resident making 55K in an expensive urban area. Their take home check is probably about 50K. If rent is 1700-2000, that's already 20,400-24,000 off their paycheck. If they're doing REPAYE for their student loans that's 10% of their paycheck which comes to about 5500 yearly. Idk about other areas, but where I'm at (a relatively low cost of living area) electricity is always at 130 a month at a minimum (can go up depending on the month), so that's another 1560 yearly. Nowadays, I spend about 50 on gas every 2 weeks on my car, so that's another 1200 yearly. National average for car insurance according to US News is about 1300 yearly. I have seen residents pay about 500 monthly for health insurance from the plan their programs offer, that's 6000 yearly. Now let's do some math, that's already close to 40K in necessary expenses before counting anything else. I don't think someone necessary has a spending problem if they're living paycheck to paycheck in residency.

 

[jhmmd]

@DrStephenStrange I thought REPAYE was d/c'd?

 

[Wordead]

Let's imagine a resident making 55K in an expensive urban area. Their take home check is probably about 50K. If rent is 1700-2000, that's already 20,400-24,000 off their paycheck. If they're doing REPAYE for their student loans that's 10% of their paycheck which comes to about 5500 yearly. Idk about other areas, but where I'm at (a relatively low cost of living area) electricity is always at 130 a month at a minimum (can go up depending on the month), so that's another 1560 yearly. Nowadays, I spend about 50 on gas every 2 weeks on my car, so that's another 1200 yearly. National average for car insurance according to US News is about 1300 yearly. I have seen residents pay about 500 monthly for health insurance from the plan their programs offer, that's 6000 yearly. Now let's do some math, that's already close to 40K in necessary expenses before counting anything else. I don't think someone necessary have a spending problem if they're living paycheck to paycheck in residency.

The programs in expensive urban areas - SF, NYC, etc have higher paychecks. If you're talking chicago, philly, DC, most of the other large cities have plenty of areas with cheaper housing. Maybe you need a roommate or two, yes. If you make 55K and are spending 50% of your takehome on housing you need cheaper housing. Standard budgeting is 30% of your paycheck for housing.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

@DrStephenStrange I thought REPAYE was d/c'd?

PAYE and REPAYE are the two main plans people still use. It's not d/c'd.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

The programs in expensive urban areas - SF, NYC, etc have higher paychecks. If you're talking chicago, philly, DC, most of the other large cities have plenty of areas with cheaper housing. Maybe you need a roommate or two, yes. If you make 55K and are spending 50% of your takehome on housing you need cheaper housing. Standard budgeting is 30% of your paycheck for housing.

My number 1 this year was Rush. I didn't match there. I remember seeing their salary for intern year being 59K, and thinking how I would survive.

Edit: Also one of my friends who is heading to UCF in Orlando is going to get paid 56K in intern year.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Let's imagine a resident making 55K in an expensive urban area. Their take home check is probably about 50K. If rent is 1700-2000, that's already 20,400-24,000 off their paycheck. If they're doing REPAYE for their student loans that's 10% of their paycheck which comes to about 5500 yearly. Idk about other areas, but where I'm at (a relatively low cost of living area) electricity is always at 130 a month at a minimum (can go up depending on the month), so that's another 1560 yearly. Nowadays, I spend about 50 on gas every 2 weeks on my car, so that's another 1200 yearly. National average for car insurance according to US News is about 1300 yearly. I have seen residents pay about 500 monthly for health insurance from the plan their programs offer, that's 6000 yearly. Now let's do some math, that's already close to 40K in necessary expenses before counting anything else. I don't think someone necessary have a spending problem if they're living paycheck to paycheck in residency.

The resident you are describing - who is spending $24,000/year on rent, $6000/year on health insurance, $1600/year on electricity, and $2500/year on transportation - is either supporting a family by themselves or has a spending problem. If you're wondering how people can afford $130/month on electricity and $500/month on health insurance, the answer is they aren't spending anything remotely close to that on those things. It's just a single person's perspective, but to compare myself to your example, rent where I live is within the range you provide, but my combined car/renters/umbrella/health/dental/disability insurance + electricity + gas is a quarter of your estimate.

My number 1 this year was Rush. I didn't match there. I remember their salary for intern year being 59K, and thinking how I would survive.

You would've be fine considering you can rent a decent 1BR within walking distance of Rush for well under $1500/month. Unless you've matched in Boston, NYC, or SF, you are not spending anything close to 50% of your salary on rent.

 

[jhmmd]

The resident you are describing - who is spending $24,000/year on rent, $6000/year on health insurance, $1600/year on electricity, and $2500/year on transportation - is either supporting a family by themselves or has a spending problem. If you're wondering how people can afford $130/month on electricity and $500/month on health insurance, the answer is they aren't spending anything remotely close to that on those things. It's just a single person's perspective, but to compare myself to your example, rent where I live is within the range you provide, but my combined car/renters/umbrella/health/dental/disability insurance + electricity + gas is a quarter of your estimate.


You would've be fine considering you can rent a decent 1BR within walking distance of Rush for well under $1500/month. Unless you've matched in Boston, NYC, or SF, you are not spending anything close to 50% of your salary on rent.

Add Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, and any major urban city

 

[Tenk]

I know surgeons who worked until they were 70, and then went to the Vein Clinic. Not because they wanted to work, but because they had too. Too many ex wives and families.

Note. I am not one either!

Yes, either don’t get married or don’t get divorced and you can retire early.

 

[ciestar]

@DrStephenStrange I thought REPAYE was d/c'd?

That is the repayment plan i have, so no.

 

[sloop]

Add Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, and any major urban city

This is really not true. Between med school and residency, I have lived in two major east coast cities which were not Boston or NYC. Both of them had affordable housing options in safe areas. It can get dicey if you want to live in the commercialized downtown centers of these cities, but you don’t have to live in those places.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

This is really not true. Between med school and residency, I have lived in two major east coast cities which were not Boston or NYC. Both of them had affordable housing options in safe areas. It can get dicey if you want to live in the commercialized downtown centers of these cities, but you don’t have to live in those places.

Agreed. Many of my co residents lived in New Jersey and commuted. It was cheaper to live there and commute than live in the city close to the hospital. Many were married and their spouse's worked. Living pay check to paycheck can be tricky, but many Americans do it successfully. There are always options. You just need to find and evaluate them.

 

[guytakingboards]

A resident made a tweet earlier saying that she was living paycheck to paycheck despite her bachelors from Yale and her MD from Harvard (nice humble brag ). It got me wondering though. How common is it for residents to be struggling financially once in residency?

Believable but not the majority of people in my experience.

Some people chalk it up to "doctors are bad with money", which is overall fairly true IMO, but that's an incomplete explanation. I think the relatively unstable financial status during key adulthood years leads to odd if not poor financial habits.
-Med school: pay/owe a lot of money. no salary
-Training: low salary with potentially alot of debt
-Attendinghood: high salary: anywhere from 3-15x what residency salaries are.

Seems like a lot of doctors fail to learn the soft skills of being an adult at the appropriate time (their first job). E.g. making a budget, living within their means, not getting the nicest housing/car on the block, not eating out every night. That behavior can seem justified because their future earning potential is so much higher, why not live it up. Those are the people who end up with lifelong struggles with money.

I trained in a relatively lower cost of living top 10 largest city. I had a roommate and lived in an extremely modest 2-bedroom next to the hospital and paid $400 for my share of the rent. A good friend and residency classmate of mine, lived in the downtown center 30min away and probably paid $1000-1200 in rent for his share of a 2-bedroom there. He bought a new car during our first year and tended to live it up. I drove a used car. He was just absolutely befuddled how I managed to max out my Roth IRA every year. I think by our last year of training he had an equivalent amount of credit card debt to the amount i had built up in my Roth IRA. He's the kinda guy who may end up living paycheck to paycheck even on an attending salary.

Contrast that with the average person who gets out of college at 22 and goes into the workforce. They learn those soft adulting skills early and know that they'll never be bailed out by a massive salary increase later.

 

[tpjunkie]

I was a resident in Manhattan 2013-2016. Starting salary was about 62.5k, which I believe was near the top of the intern salaries for NYC. Housing was via lottery for either a property next to the hospital owned by the hospital or one of various rentals leased by the hospital and sublet to us at a more “reasonable” rate - I ended up in one of those, a 1BR in what was a nice building, with rent of $2380 a month (about $900 off the market rate). Comes out to almost exactly the amount of one pre tax paycheck, so when you take into account federal, ny state, and nyc taxes, it was a lot. They actually deducted rent from the paychecks, so every two weeks I got a pay check for a shade over $300. 3 times a year there was a month with 3 pay days, so that third check had nothing taken out, those were GREAT! (Like $1600 or iirc). So most months I was living on $600 a month, which was tough but they did feed us lunch every day. The real crappy part was the way they calculated what my loan income based repayment was, because that varied wildly year to year. Intern year they said I had to pay $650 a month, and didn’t agree when I tried to explain that amount was way beyon “10% of my discretionary income” so that was a fun year of deferment. The following year they told me i owed $180 a month, and since we got a 2.5k raise it was fine. But yeah, can definitely be tough to live on resident salaries in some places. In fellowship I took a paycut from 70k pgy3 to 64k pgy4 but I was living in Tucson, and I was able to live like an attending in a luxury apartment building with a 2br apartment on that salary.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I think two things that make a resident budget much more manageable are 1) living with a roommate and 2) commuting, but a lot of people don’t want those for various reasons personal to them.

I will say that in some places I looked the “affordable” neighborhoods were such a horrendous commute that safety after long shifts, etc becomes a real concern. I think it’s a little better in cities with good public transit, but car focused cities like LA can be tough and I would not want a long commute there if I could avoid it

 

[sloop]

Agreed. Many of my co residents lived in New Jersey and commuted. It was cheaper to live there and commute than live in the city close to the hospital. Many were married and their spouse's worked. Living pay check to paycheck can be tricky, but many Americans do it successfully. There are always options. You just need to find and evaluate them.

Are you talking about Philly? I lived in Philly in med school. I lived in Roxborough. Other classmates lived in Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, etc. These are technically in the city proper, but are more suburban in character. They are commutable to all of the city hospitals, even for a busy resident. Rents were affordable. Even if you want to live close, you can do so without breaking the bank if you're not trying to live in Center City, Old City, etc.

 

[FlowRate]

Wow, $56-58k. That's worse than I thought. Are the pay ranges specialty-specific ?

For some reason I thought residents started around $65k and by PGY-3 and -4 were up around $75-80k

They're usually PGY year specific for a given institution. The pay between institutions can vary significantly. IIRC the pay ranges between various Boston hospitals is like 10-15k and if you include some VA specific residencies as much as 20k.

 

[snooper]

Well, UCSF pays PGY1: $64,362; according to CA tax calculator, your take home pay is $49,739; you're looking for a 1800.00 rent for a room in a shared house. Gas is well above 5.00/gallon. Used cars are 50% above last year, with a 10 yer old Ford Focus with 150K miles currently going for 7K.

 

[ciestar]

Are you talking about Philly? I lived in Philly in med school. I lived in Roxborough. Other classmates lived in Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, etc. These are technically in the city proper, but are more suburban in character. They are commutable to all of the city hospitals, even for a busy resident. Rents were affordable. Even if you want to live close, you can do so without breaking the bank if you're not trying to live in Center City, Old City, etc.

Yeah Philly isn’t awful for COL. i moved to the suburbs though

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

To answer the OP, it depends on your financial situation going in and where you live. In a HCOL city, the raw numbers suggest you will probably be fairly stressed financially on your own. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a lot of med students are getting more help from family or partner money than they will admit in person or online. Most of my resident friends live fairly well. We're talking HCOL or VHCOL cities living in recently renovated 1BR or 2BR apartments with nice amenities and 1-2 vacations/year.

I have visited friends in NYC, Boston, Seattle, DC, and LA, and the numbers simply don't add up. I live in a HCOL city (think same order of magnitude as Seattle, Boston, DC, SD, LA, etc...). Between stipend and fellowship bonus I make $41K as an MSTP student, don't have any student loans, and it's impossible to live without roommates.

My budget basically looks like this:
Post-tax take home: $33K ($2750/month)
Rent: $1000, and I live with 3 roommates in the sort of neighborhood where the cops raid a house and it's not really even a topic of discussion.
Utilities (internet + gas + electric): $150
Cell phone: $75
Groceries: $250
Other food (e.g., social eating): $150
Daily Transport: $100 (monthly pass + bicycle)
Out of state travel (e.g., visiting family): $100
Household necessities: $100
Misc (laundry, healthcare, gifts, cat, etc...): $200
IRA contributions: $500
Total: $2625

So with no car, roommates, and an apartment that doesn't even have in-building laundry, I'm paycheck-to-paycheck, though I am able to max my Roth. It's not glamorous, but it's also not horrendous. A resident making $65K in Boston/DC/Seattle is taking home ~$52K or $4300/month. Add in student loans (~$500/month), and you've got an extra ~$1100/month. That basically gets you to no roommates in a very cramped 1BR, never mind a car or any sort of slush fund for vacations. The only way you're living well is if you've got no student loans and don't worry about retirement contributions at all. Then you could be living in a $2200/month 1 BR apartment (renovated, in-unit laundry, decently spacious) and have $500 to throw at car payments insurance.

So yeah, I'd say that residency pay won't take you very far in a HCOL city. You will do better in MCOL or LCOL, obviously, but overall I'd say that as a resident in most places you'll think about money daily.

I think two things that make a resident budget much more manageable are 1) living with a roommate and 2) commuting, but a lot of people don’t want those for various reasons personal to them.

I think this is reasonable. I'm currently 30 and living with roommates as an MSTP student. It just gets worse as you get older.

1) Good roommates are harder to find.
2) It cramps your social life massively. Not a big deal when you're 25, but good luck having your married friends over for dinner at 30+ with roommates.
3) People suck and will absolutely use this as a way to cut you down and feel better about themselves. This is true to a certain extent for all physicians while going through residency (unless you start at 22, finish at 26, and finish residency by 29-30), but especially if you don't have outside help and are struggling financially in your 30s. It's free ammo to anyone who wants to feel superior to you for a moment. I can't tell you how many nasty comments I've gotten from extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles, family friends) mocking me for being as poor as I am despite my accomplishments. I'm pretty sick of it.

Having a long commute during residency is also a big no-no if you want to stay sane.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

A resident made a tweet earlier saying that she was living paycheck to paycheck despite her bachelors from Yale and her MD from Harvard (nice humble brag ). It got me wondering though. How common is it for residents to be struggling financially once in residency?

A quick perusal of Redditt reveals stories about residents working in some of the expensive costal cities who are sleeping in their cars, having to apply for food stamps and other social assistance, and essentially having to do without for some period of time. I’ve also seen lots of stories regarding issues that new residents have with moving across country; my wife and I have moved across country several times and if her university wasn’t footing the bill for some of these moves, our costs would have exceeded $7k out of pocket. Imagine a PGY1 having to do this as a single person with no family or job assistance. I haven’t made it to residency as I’m just finishing my first year of medical school but I am keenly aware of my privilege that comes from me having a full scholarship to medical school, a spouse who works full time earning six figures (no loans for housing), and the financial benefits that I’ll have from reenlisting in the Army guard. All that will translate to a better financial picture for me as a resident too. Tough out there….

 

[snooper]

Well, the thing is that with a salary of 64K in California, you're not qualifying for food stamps; you're still paying a good chunk of money in taxes. Rent for the Below-Market-Rental units for which you qualify still runs at 2500K/month for a studio (that is, if you win the lottery for a spot).

 

[Radonky]

My wife is staying at home with the kids, we essentially lose money every month, and we don't spend a cent on ourselves. I was fortunate to do extremely well in the stock market during the COVID boom market so that helped us a lot, otherwise we would be struggling.

Renting a home in a safe neighborhood is nearly half my salary in my location, the rest goes to living expenses. We are net negative every month, with enough savings to last until becoming an attending. If you are single, I don't think the finances need to be as tight.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

To answer the OP, it depends on your financial situation going in and where you live. In a HCOL city, the raw numbers suggest you will probably be fairly stressed financially on your own. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a lot of med students are getting more help from family or partner money than they will admit in person or online. Most of my resident friends live fairly well. We're talking HCOL or VHCOL cities living in recently renovated 1BR or 2BR apartments with nice amenities and 1-2 vacations/year.

I have visited friends in NYC, Boston, Seattle, DC, and LA, and the numbers simply don't add up. I live in a HCOL city (think same order of magnitude as Seattle, Boston, DC, SD, LA, etc...). Between stipend and fellowship bonus I make $41K as an MSTP student, don't have any student loans, and it's impossible to live without roommates.

My budget basically looks like this:
Post-tax take home: $33K ($2750/month)
Rent: $1000, and I live with 3 roommates in the sort of neighborhood where the cops raid a house and it's not really even a topic of discussion.
Utilities (internet + gas + electric): $150
Cell phone: $75
Groceries: $250
Other food (e.g., social eating): $150
Daily Transport: $100 (monthly pass + bicycle)
Out of state travel (e.g., visiting family): $100
Household necessities: $100
Misc (laundry, healthcare, gifts, cat, etc...): $200
IRA contributions: $500
Total: $2625

So with no car, roommates, and an apartment that doesn't even have in-building laundry, I'm paycheck-to-paycheck, though I am able to max my Roth. It's not glamorous, but it's also not horrendous. A resident making $65K in Boston/DC/Seattle is taking home ~$52K or $4300/month. Add in student loans (~$500/month), and you've got an extra ~$1100/month. That basically gets you to no roommates in a very cramped 1BR, never mind a car or any sort of slush fund for vacations. The only way you're living well is if you've got no student loans and don't worry about retirement contributions at all. Then you could be living in a $2200/month 1 BR apartment (renovated, in-unit laundry, decently spacious) and have $500 to throw at car payments insurance.

So yeah, I'd say that residency pay won't take you very far in a HCOL city. You will do better in MCOL or LCOL, obviously, but overall I'd say that as a resident in most places you'll think about money daily.

I think this is reasonable. I'm currently 30 and living with roommates as an MSTP student. It just gets worse as you get older.

1) Good roommates are harder to find.
2) It cramps your social life massively. Not a big deal when you're 25, but good luck having your married friends over for dinner at 30+ with roommates.
3) People suck and will absolutely use this as a way to cut you down and feel better about themselves. This is true to a certain extent for all physicians while going through residency (unless you start at 22, finish at 26, and finish residency by 29-30), but especially if you don't have outside help and are struggling financially in your 30s. It's free ammo to anyone who wants to feel superior to you for a moment. I can't tell you how many nasty comments I've gotten from extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles, family friends) mocking me for being as poor as I am despite my accomplishments. I'm pretty sick of it.

Having a long commute during residency is also a big no-no if you want to stay sane.

Yeah I’m very very grateful that to have ended up somewhere I can afford to live alone and not have a terrible commute. I haven’t experienced your #3, maybe because my social circles tend to see no issues with roommates, but I agree with the other points. Plus general lack of privacy - sometimes I want to just come home and flop on the couch and leave my dirty dishes out without inconveniencing anyone else.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Yeah I’m very very grateful that to have ended up somewhere I can afford to live alone and not have a terrible commute. I haven’t experienced your #3, maybe because my social circles tend to see no issues with roommates, but I agree with the other points. Plus general lack of privacy - sometimes I want to just come home and flop on the couch and leave my dirty dishes out without inconveniencing anyone else.

I may be oversensitive to that point because life has been a lot more social lately. We've had a lot of family gatherings lately, and I've been seeing a lot friends and friends-of-friends, but I'm definitely not imagining things. The two crowds it comes from most are

1) Professionals in their late 20s whose careers and financial status are now finally rising. Maybe I'm being unfair here, but I've almost exclusively gotten this from people in less traditionally inspiring roles, usually MBAs. Part of me wants to believe they are validating their own decisions (or failures) to do something that's not exactly altruistic. That might be wishful thinking on my part.

2) Relatives who want to compare their children to me. This one is usually far more shameless and eye-roll inducing.

I just get it so often that it's hard to ignore. Usually it's harmless or just people trying to make conversation. Sometimes you get the person who really wants to poke and prod at all the ways your life is worse than theirs. Just a non-stop barrage of "how many years do you have left?" or "So you won't have a job until you're almost 40, huh." and probably the worst I've experienced, "So are you just trying to avoid actually starting your life by being a student forever?" That person was really digging their own grave socially though. It was obvious to everyone around what they were trying to do.