DO/PhD compared to MD/PhD?

[ravupadh]

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Hey there,

I'm wondering if there are any disadvantages in regards to career paths if you have a DO/PhD instead of a MD/PhD. Of course I'm referring to the DO/PhD programs that give you a PhD in the biomedical sciences such as the one at UMDNJ-SOM. I don't care about stipend/tution payment differences since money is not an issue for me but is a DO/PhD looked down upon in comparison to an MD/PhD if he wants to perform basic science research? Basically will a DO/PhD stand on the same level as a MD/PhD in the scientific world and will people take you with the same sense of credibility? Thanks.

 

[PfNO22]

Hey there,

I'm wondering if there are any disadvantages in regards to career paths if you have a DO/PhD instead of a MD/PhD. Of course I'm referring to the DO/PhD programs that give you a PhD in the biomedical sciences such as the one at UMDNJ-SOM. I don't care about stipend/tution payment differences since money is not an issue for me but is a DO/PhD looked down upon in comparison to an MD/PhD if he wants to perform basic science research? Basically will a DO/PhD stand on the same level as a MD/PhD in the scientific world and will people take you with the same sense of credibility? Thanks.

It's not the MD nor the DO that give you scientific credibility, it's the PhD and the research that you do.

So it all depends on you, do graduates of the UMDNJ get good post-docs? I personally haven't come across anyone in my field who graduated from UMDNJ.

 

[ravupadh]

It's not the MD nor the DO that give you scientific credibility, it's the PhD and the research that you do.

So it all depends on you, do graduates of the UMDNJ get good post-docs? I personally haven't come across anyone in my field who graduated from UMDNJ.

I have no idea lol. You get your PhD from the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences, the same school that the MD UMDNJ students get their PhD from. So I'm guessing based on what you're saying it wouldn't more or less difficult. That's a relief then. I don't wanna waste 7 years of my life and then find out that I'm less competitive because of my DO degree.

 

[Ombret]

I haven't encountered any DO/PhD graduates, but for sure, most of the same doors will be open to you after such a program as after MD/PhD. All of the NIH grant announcements view the various clinical degrees equally (and usually include DC, DPM, and DDS as well by the way), and of course PhD is PhD.

One reason for there to be fewer DO/PhDs is that DO schools have less elaborate basic research operations, as a rule. The Rutgers system is probably one of the few counterexamples. Another reason we see fewer DO/PhDs is that the DO universe is more primary care-oriented... ergo fewer research mavens.

I think DO/PhD graduates probably face some of the same issues that DO graduates period are faced with. Just cruise over to some of the DO forums, I'm sure they are full up with discussions about this. You will always have the occasional troglodyte who does not know what DO is or asks you why you didn't "go to med school" instead, etc. I always come back to the observations that (a) those people are usually *******s and (b) they are also usually very poorly informed. DO students and residents I have met are some of the best rounded and most competent colleagues I have had. So if this ends up being a good option for you, and if your skin is thick enough to handle the occasional speed bump, then go for it.

 

[PfNO22]

I haven't encountered any DO/PhD graduates, but for sure, most of the same doors will be open to you after such a program as after MD/PhD.

I have encountered DO/PhDs, and the DO is not the issue. Where you do your PhD is a big issue, what are the NMDJMJMJ alumni doing now? I don't know.

 

[ChemMed]

I have encountered DO/PhDs, and the DO is not the issue. Where you do your PhD is a big issue, what are the NMDJMJMJ alumni doing now? I don't know.

I agree with this. Where you get your PhD is important. The two programs that I looked at with nice PhD programs were in Michigan and Ohio. There are also far less DO/PhD programs then MD/PhD again due to the fact that DOs in general are more clinically oriented in their training.

 

[Neuronix]

I think one major issue has already been identified: generally DO programs are primary care oriented. There are few DO/PhD programs and there are NONE that advertise full-funding (full tuition and stipend for all years of the program).

If you want to be a physician-scientist, you will want to go to a strong academic residency program. Which means you will be fighting for an academic allopathic residency from DO school. This will be tricky. DO students do it all the time, but know that you will have to be a top medical student to pull this off, which means strong clinical performance and high step 1 score. Certain specialties like rad onc will almost be entirely closed to you.

Once you get past the fellowship level you will need to find a good faculty appointment and get your own funding. The issues there are universal and I doubt the DO/PhD will hurt you there. It's just getting to that point I worry about. You can get there if you work hard, but the DO is going to put you at a disadvantage for residency placement, which could make it hard to get a choice fellowship (though this is all subspecialty dependent).

As you can't possibly know which field you want before you start a combined degree program, I don't recommend handicapping yourself when you start if you can help it. I also generally recommend MSTPs if possible for the NIGMS approval and oversight. At least you have some way of knowing you're going to a quality program before you start.

 

[Shifty B]

I don't know why there is so much skirting around the issue here. Perhaps in the name of political correctness, no one wants to come out and state the truth.

Your PhD may be the same, but and MD and a DO are not viewed the same in the medical community. In general, people view DO degrees as less prestigious than MD degrees. This stems from the perception that in the US the only reason that you would go into osteopathic medicine is that you could not get into an allopathic school. I won't get into the truth or falsehood of this, because quite frankly I don't care, but that is the perception.

As a DO, you will have every opportunity that an MD has, but you may have to work twice as hard and prove yourself twice over to get it. This includes residency positions, fellowship positions, and faculty spots. A lot of this depends on how competitive a field you are interested in. Truly competitive fields like derm and rad onc probably have almost no DOs. Slightly less competitive fields like radiology, ophthalmology, anesthesia, may have a few but still less than average. Less competitive fields (primary care, IM, FM, psych, etc) you probably have better than average odds in.

My advice is if you have an opportunity to pursue your desired career in allopathic school, then take it. If the only way is to do a DO/PhD, then by all means do it. But be aware of the stigma associated with it and that you will have to overcome it.