DO/PhD

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Is it funded by the medical scientist training program and by that I mean is it a free program?

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[WNT Signaling]

Do a search in the physician scientist forum

The answers is no, except for Michigan State. UMDNJ-DO requires you to take out loans for the first two years, and they'll pay them back if you finish the PhD. UNT, OSU, OU do not offer full funding. Not all PhD's are the same, and to be honest, other than Michigan State, I wouldn't take 3 years to earn a PhD from any of the other universities

In order for a school to receive MSTP status, not only do they have to have quality research programs, they also have to have a structured system that integrates the medical and research tracks together--DO, PhD programs do not reach this gold standard

*Note: Michigan State is not an MSTP program, and I believe that it is the only MD/DO, PhD dual degree program that requires GRE scores

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hm.. Blower.

 

[Limvostov]

VCOM also has a PhD program available to their DO students and since it's on the Virginia Tech campus they have close ties to many of their programs so I would imagine that a PhD from VCOM would be an excellent opportunity.

If I remember right, you have to take out additional loans though and need to be in good standing during your second year to be considered for the PhD. Worth looking into though (especially if you could get that PhD through their engineering school... top notch program)

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Im actually looking for a PhD in social psychology.

 

[jason3278]

Do a search in the physician scientist forum

The answers is no, except for Michigan State. UMDNJ-DO requires you to take out loans for the first two years, and they'll pay them back if you finish the PhD. UNT, OSU, OU do not offer full funding. Not all PhD's are the same, and to be honest, other than Michigan State, I wouldn't take 3 years to earn a PhD from any of the other universities

In order for a school to receive MSTP status, not only do they have to have quality research programs, they also have to have a structured system that integrates the medical and research tracks together--DO, PhD programs do not reach this gold standard

*Note: Michigan State is not an MSTP program, and I believe that it is the only MD/DO, PhD dual degree program that requires GRE scores

Yes it is.

 

[WNT Signaling]

Yes it is.

No, no they are not, though they, like many other programs, call themselves an MSTP. Do a google search for NIH MSTP programs; Msu is not on that list

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Looks like i'll probably need to look at primarily MD/PhD i guess..

 

[Laryngophed]

... Not all PhD's are the same, and to be honest, other than Michigan State, I wouldn't take 3 years to earn a PhD from any of the other universities...

Often the granting school has much less to do with the quality of PhD than you are accounting for in this little excerpt. Unless you've looked through all of the faculty, their interest and publishing record (just as a starting point) I don't think its safe to say it isn't worth the 3-4 years of research to earn the PhD.

 

[WNT Signaling]

Often the granting school has much less to do with the quality of PhD than you are accounting for in this little excerpt. Unless you've looked through all of the faculty, their interest and publishing record (just as a starting point) I don't think its safe to say it isn't worth the 3-4 years of research to earn the PhD.

Exactly. When schools only have 10 or so labs you can do your thesis in, the school does not have a lot of funding, the school researchers only publish in low-impact journals, and if their PhD only graduates have to do 2+ postdocs to get a job, let alone an actually tenure-track faculty position, then the amalgamation of these factors show that an institution does not have a quality graduate program.

With this in mind, other than Michigan State, no osteopathic school has quality graduate programs akin to those found at larger allopathic universities.

 

[PoorTimmyTucker]

In order for a school to receive MSTP status, not only do they have to have quality research programs, they also have to have a structured system that integrates the medical and research tracks together--DO, PhD programs do not reach this gold standard

I am applying for the DO/PhD program at Michigan State and they actually integrate research with the medical track moreso than a lot of MD/PhD programs. Most MD/PhD programs have two years of ms, three years PhD and then two more years ms. At MSU you start lab rotations your first year and continue till you finish the PhD pretty much. Check out the curriculum on this website:

http://www.do-phd.com.msu.edu/curriculum-do-phd.html

MSU actually started the DO/PhD program and is imo the best because it offers the opportunity to do your PhD in any graduate program at MSU. The director of the program has been one of the biggest helps in applying for the program and keeps stressing the program's emphasis on finding allowing you to find your niche in medicine and research so that you do not waste one of the degrees.

 

[J-Rad]

Im actually looking for a PhD in social psychology.

I'm not speaking as an authority in the matter, but of all the people I know of who went through an MD/PhD program, I know none who did a psych PhD (social or otherwise). The PhDs are most typically in a "hard" science (biochem, physiology, genetics, pharmacology, etc). I would ask if an MD/PhD with Social Psych is even a possibility.

 

[J-Rad]

So I randomly picked a few schools' MD/PhD programs:

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/mstp/New/mstp/departments/basic/index.htm
http://mstp.med.wisc.edu/research/trainingprogramslist.php
http://www.umassmed.edu/mdphd/academics/programs.aspx
http://www.hms.harvard.edu/md_phd/program/social.html

The dominant theme of most is "hard science" PhD programs, however, at Harvard there is a "social science track" for the PhD. Don't know if it falls under an MSTP...but I hereby adjust my statement somewhat to think that social science PhD's may be much less common, though not non-existent.

 

[PoorTimmyTucker]

Im actually looking for a PhD in social psychology.

DO/PhD at MSU you can do the PhD in philosophy/bioethics, medical anthropology and other programs are considered on an individual basis. I guess they probably would like to hear how you may want to use this degree in the future. Most of these joint programs are geared towards promoting a future in research though.

 

[WNT Signaling]

I'm not speaking as an authority in the matter, but of all the people I know of who went through an MD/PhD program, I know none who did a psych PhD (social or otherwise). The PhDs are most typically in a "hard" science (biochem, physiology, genetics, pharmacology, etc). I would ask if an MD/PhD with Social Psych is even a possibility.

I was going to respond this unfortunately, all of my earlier posts were done on my iPhone, so I couldn't type up a full response.

OP, if you are interested in clinical psych, get a PhD; you don't need an MD. Conversely, if you are interested in psychiatry/neurology, you don't need a PhD in psychology.

MD, PhD programs have different standards on what they will and will not allow the PhD to be in. If it's in a biological science, you'll never have a problem, but when you start to become interested in history, anthropology, and psychology, it becomes more difficult to find programs willing to support you, and just become a program is open to the idea of supporting someone in one of these fields does not mean you are on equal footing with candidates interested in biosciences.

Remember, it's not about the degree, it's about the process. The PhD teaches you to think like a research. You can gain research experience in medical school, during the summer after ms1, you can take a year off to do research, and you'll be able to research during your residency, fellowship, and you can postdoc after your residency or fellowship. Basically, there are plenty of opportunities to do research. Hell, some universities even allow you to earn a PhD during your residency/postdoc.

The main benefit of going to an MSTP is that it pays your tuition and gives you a stipend. Now, people in MSTP programs, much like those in the military forum, will tell you not to do it for the money for several (many make the argument that you lose money because you'll lose 3+ years of an attending's salary). When you get the chance, ask as many MD/PhD's and MD only researchers if they are happy/regret their path. Some MD's feel that they would have an easier time getting grants if they had a PhD. Some MD, PhD's feel that they wasted part of their life when they could have established their research career's with only their postdoc. It's different for every person, and what seems like a good idea when you are 21 may not still seem like a good idea when you're 27.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Social psych =/= clinical psych lol

I want a Social psychology degree well frankly because i strongly enjoy the field and frankly when im old.. like 60 and retire i want to seriously go work in a university haha. Its probably better to get PhD in social psych after med school i guess, but who knows.. i dont think its impossible frankly.

 

[WNT Signaling]

Social psych =/= clinical psych lol

I want a Social psychology degree well frankly because i strongly enjoy the field and frankly when im old.. like 60 and retire i want to seriously go work in a university haha. Its probably better to get PhD in social psych after med school i guess, but who knows.. i dont think its impossible frankly.

I had no idea that they're different, sorry

You probably will not get a PhD after an med school because you will tired and up to your eyes in debt, and I'm sure the LAST thing on your mind will be to go back to school even longer

FYI, it's not unheard of psychiatrists that work well into their 70s

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I had no idea that they're different, sorry

You probably will not get a PhD after an med school because you will tired and up to your eyes in debt, and I'm sure the LAST thing on your mind will be to go back to school even longer

FYI, it's not unheard of psychiatrists that work well into their 70s

Psychiatry, psychologists, neurologist and anything with a relation to the brain get better with age.. Its because we indefinitely learn more and more that experiences and environment changes neuro chem that we manage to develop multiple methods of treatment.

But yah, I personally love learning things and discussion. Personally my ideal career is where I need to think a lot and communicate with other intelligent individuals to attain results to prove hypothesis. I think that human behavior is amazingly interesting, and as such im very much interested in brain ( psychiatry or neurology).

 

[st2205]

Social psych =/= clinical psych lol

I want a Social psychology degree well frankly because i strongly enjoy the field and frankly when im old.. like 60 and retire i want to seriously go work in a university haha. Its probably better to get PhD in social psych after med school i guess, but who knows.. i dont think its impossible frankly.

I think your best bet is through health psychology (as a large part of health psychology stems from social psych). This is only speculation on my part. But I'm not even sure if you're interested in health psych.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think your best bet is through health psychology (as a large part of health psychology stems from social psych). This is only speculation on my part. But I'm not even sure if you're interested in health psych.

Well I overall like all forms of psychology. Social for me is more interesting because i'd love to psycho-analyze things like the mindsets of conquerors and historical events. My social psych teacher did research on the trench warfare of world war 1 and i thought that must have probably been the most interesting thing in the world to research.

 

[Quantum Mecha]

I'm not speaking as an authority in the matter, but of all the people I know of who went through an MD/PhD program, I know none who did a psych PhD (social or otherwise). The PhDs are most typically in a "hard" science (biochem, physiology, genetics, pharmacology, etc). I would ask if an MD/PhD with Social Psych is even a possibility.

I hear that the University of Illinois at Urbana - Champaign offers a social science MD/PhD program. They are not a MTSP program, but I believe that they do provide full funding. UIC is an MSTP and they may have something as well.

 

[st2205]

Well I overall like all forms of psychology. Social for me is more interesting because i'd love to psycho-analyze things like the mindsets of conquerors and historical events. My social psych teacher did research on the trench warfare of world war 1 and i thought that must have probably been the most interesting thing in the world to research.

I only say it because you could likely do a PhD in Health Psych through social psych, w/health pscyh being the connection to medicine and quasi-biomedical research... sort of.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I only say it because you could likely do a PhD in Health Psych through social psych, w/health pscyh being the connection to medicine and quasi-biomedical research... sort of.

Hmm.. I guess i'll look it up

 

[jason3278]

No, no they are not, though they, like many other programs, call themselves an MSTP. Do a google search for NIH MSTP programs; Msu is not on that list

I see. I just thought that MSTP meant a funded PhD program.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I see. I just thought that MSTP meant a funded PhD program.

Actually apparently MSTP only makes up like 1/10th of PhD programs. The majority of programs do however waive tuition for students and give a stripend.