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I was just curious?
Do ppl ever choose DO over Md?
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yes. people who are interested in osteopathic techniques and its philosophy. my friend is one of those. he had originally wanted to do physio then changed mid pre-med. learning osteopathic skills gives him the ability to treat MSS problems in a 'hands on' manner, instead of simply shoving them out the door with more NSAIDs. i think the philosophy of this is important; it's not using another technique in place of evidence based treatments, but emphasises the role of the doctor as being a carer through the 'laying on of hands'.
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I am. While I tremendously respect both programs, DO philosophy is centered around doctor/patient relations and I'd like to be in that kind of program rather than in a program thats main focus is on studying. Also, I'd like to think there are a few less gunners in DO programs because many DOs are the people that didn't get 4.0/35+. The only reason why I want to apply to my state school first is because of money issues. The KCUMB school is private and therefore doesn't recieve the kinds of state benefits as KU. So that's 36k a year vs my state MD school which is 22k a year. They're both excellent schools, so if both were to accept me, I'd have to go with the MD program at KU. Still, if I had to choose with going out of state vs the DO program here, I'd suck it up and make some lender booty calls.
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there are some MD schools that are not as good as the DO schools, IMO
..for example, if you compare the USMLE average score of students at one DO school and another in-state MD school, sometimes, you will find that the DO school does FAR BETTER..
Choosing between DO vs. MD depends on each individual's goal. If you like research, for example, do MD. If you prefer primary care medicine, DO schools may be a better fit. There are MANY factors that play into what is right for you...and this is NOT based on "What is better" because that is a very subjective basis to make your decisions...
good luck!
..for example, if you compare the USMLE average score of students at one DO school and another in-state MD school, sometimes, you will find that the DO school does FAR BETTER..
Choosing between DO vs. MD depends on each individual's goal. If you like research, for example, do MD. If you prefer primary care medicine, DO schools may be a better fit. There are MANY factors that play into what is right for you...and this is NOT based on "What is better" because that is a very subjective basis to make your decisions...
good luck!
Definitely. There are a lot of considerations that go into choosing a medical school-- chief among them are location, location, and location. Another thing to take strongly into consideration (as another poster has already mentioned) is cost along with the interest in osteopathic philosophy and manipulation.
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Exactly, to me med school is med school. Location was more important for me and where I'm at now is closer to a larger city with access to more residency opportunities than my local state MD school where I would've basically HAD to move my 3rd/4th years and beyond for clinical rotations and residency.
Plus I get to learn the manipulation techniques and am in a unique curriculum type (PBL), so the DO vs. MD thing really didn't matter to me, rather I was just going to look at pros/cons of each individual school as it mattered to me.
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Yesterday I thought about posting this very thread, lol.
I have been thinking about which path is right for me for over a year and I am torn.
Lately I have become more interested in being a DO.
There are several reasons for this:
1. I haven't heard much from most of the MD schools I applied to (30, 5 rejections, 2 holds, 1 interview invite, 23 NOTHING). It is rather upsetting considering I have the average gpa & MCAT of those accepted to allopathic schools.
2. DO schools have given me much more love (7/12 interview invites so far).
3. I'm also not a cut-throat kind of person. All I want is to become a good doctor. I don't want to lose sight of this in a competitive atmosphere(someone else previously mentioned this: I know it may not be true of all MD schools and it may even apply to some DO schools but what I've learned so far, I feel like I fit in much better with DO students).
4. The location of some DO schools is better than many MDs I applied to.
5. $$$, Most private MDs I applied to are more expensive than DO schools.
6. Again like someone else said, I'd rather go to a good DO school that will help me acheive a better board score than an MD school that won't.
I have no idea though, I'm still torn. 😕
I have been thinking about which path is right for me for over a year and I am torn.
Lately I have become more interested in being a DO.
There are several reasons for this:
1. I haven't heard much from most of the MD schools I applied to (30, 5 rejections, 2 holds, 1 interview invite, 23 NOTHING). It is rather upsetting considering I have the average gpa & MCAT of those accepted to allopathic schools.
2. DO schools have given me much more love (7/12 interview invites so far).
3. I'm also not a cut-throat kind of person. All I want is to become a good doctor. I don't want to lose sight of this in a competitive atmosphere(someone else previously mentioned this: I know it may not be true of all MD schools and it may even apply to some DO schools but what I've learned so far, I feel like I fit in much better with DO students).
4. The location of some DO schools is better than many MDs I applied to.
5. $$$, Most private MDs I applied to are more expensive than DO schools.
6. Again like someone else said, I'd rather go to a good DO school that will help me acheive a better board score than an MD school that won't.
I have no idea though, I'm still torn. 😕
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I did. I would have preferred to be accepted to some MD schools, but was not. MD preference simply because I feel there is still a bit less "resistance" to some specialties on that path. Of the ones that accepted me, I decided that I'd rather go to the top DO acceptance on my list over the MD options I had. I chose what I felt was the better education over the MD initials. And I tried to guess how "prestigious 'DO' school" vs. "mediocre at best 'MD' schools" would play out in terms of residency matching. In the end, it probably means much less than my board score and connections I make during rotations... since I'm not aiming for plastic surgery.
I didn't apply terribly broadly. If I had, perhaps I would have landed an MD acceptance that I would have favored over KCUMB - hard to say now.
I didn't apply terribly broadly. If I had, perhaps I would have landed an MD acceptance that I would have favored over KCUMB - hard to say now.
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The short answer to your question, OP, is, "yes, of course." There are a variety of variables which may contribute to an applicant's decision to attend a given school. Some of these reasons may have nothing to do with designation, or things that some people would, sometimes erroneously, associate with them.
Anyway, these types of topics have been discussed ad nauseum. A simple search should reveal this.
Anyway, these types of topics have been discussed ad nauseum. A simple search should reveal this.
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Most choose DO beacuse of numbers, either the tuition at the school or their own MCAT/GPA. But i'm sure there are people out there who simply like DO a lot more. Although personally I'd just go to a primary care heavy MD school, leave more options open.
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sorry for this, not trying to hijack this thread.
But can someone please explain to me what exactly OMM is?
But can someone please explain to me what exactly OMM is?
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O ok, dont take this the wrong way, but how is this part of the DO curriculum different from chiropractic.
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Let's not go there. We are headed into territory that:
1) Begins to fan flames.
2) Leads to thread decay.
Do a search and you'll find all kinds of similar discussions. However, I'll indulge you this once and hope it doesn't lead to the demise of this thread. Basically, the main difference in my limited experience (don't know much about chiropractic) is that manipulation and palpation are used and learned in the context of medicine. As a DO, you are training to become a physician and manipulation is but one modality you can use to treat and diagnose a condition. Chiropractors are not physicians and don't learn their manipulation in the same context. First and foremost, osteopathic medical schools are medical schools. OMM is integrated into a medical curriculum.
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I know two physicians with over 3.7 GPAs who decided to go to DO school rather than MD school. I am seriously thinking of doing DO too, because OMM is just another way I can help my patients.
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RIght, thats why i made sure to state, that part of the DO curriculum, sorry.
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edit...
should have refreshed before replying
should have refreshed before replying
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Wow I am impressed about how civil this discussion is going thus far. A simple answer to your question OP ... is yes. There are a lot of factors to consider; location, tuition cost, belief in philosophy, wanting to learn OMM, wanting to go into primary care, AOA residencies, etc etc ...
Now, do some people apply to DO schools because they are afraid they aren't going to get into MD schools, or because they feel that their stats aren't stellar? Yes. Personally, I really think this is a shame. Simply because a lot of people (in the pre-medical world at least) put a lot of emphasis on the letters behind your name, without realizing that both paths will make you a physician; which is what is important. I am all for the most DO applicants possible, I just hope that people who do apply truly understand the difference, because Osteopathic medicine is amazing!!!
Now, do some people apply to DO schools because they are afraid they aren't going to get into MD schools, or because they feel that their stats aren't stellar? Yes. Personally, I really think this is a shame. Simply because a lot of people (in the pre-medical world at least) put a lot of emphasis on the letters behind your name, without realizing that both paths will make you a physician; which is what is important. I am all for the most DO applicants possible, I just hope that people who do apply truly understand the difference, because Osteopathic medicine is amazing!!!
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Anythings possible. Some may choose because of location (I know someone who couldnt move because of family, so he reluctantly went to DO school). Others might go for financial reasons (they only got accepted to expensive MD programs). I think it is very uncommon for people to go to DO school because of their "philosophy," as the appeal of OMM seems to be coupled with one of the above or with low numbers.
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I am only looking at DO schools and it has nothing to do with my numbers. The holistic approach to patient care coupled with omm really appeals to me. I've had both MD's and DO's as physicians and I resonated better with my DO's...
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I don't think DO will ever equal MD in peoples' mind (atleast pre-meds?) as long as DO schools are significantly less competitive than MD programs, especially regarding objective measures like the MCAT and GPA. This conversation wouldn't exist if it was just as difficult to get in to DO programs as it is for MD.
I can't see someone choosing DO just because of its "holistic" approach. If you want practice holistic medicine that is your choice, not the choice of your school. Even so, I'm pretty sure that there are some MD programs that claim to emphasize this philosophy. I guess if you are really into OMM you might be drawn to DO but I don't know if this is a significant portion of the population. I would like to see how many people have chosen DO over MD when having acceptances from both holding constant financial and geographic considerations.
I will probably apply to DO as well but I am not deluded as to why. It is another pathway towards becoming a physician and applying to these schools broadens my chances of starting on this path. I think a lot of people either don't get in to MD programs or are afraid they won't and subsequently rationalize why DO is better than MD. At the end of the day all that matters is you've become a doctor but as long as DO programs remain significantly less competitive people will have hangups and hesitations.
I can't see someone choosing DO just because of its "holistic" approach. If you want practice holistic medicine that is your choice, not the choice of your school. Even so, I'm pretty sure that there are some MD programs that claim to emphasize this philosophy. I guess if you are really into OMM you might be drawn to DO but I don't know if this is a significant portion of the population. I would like to see how many people have chosen DO over MD when having acceptances from both holding constant financial and geographic considerations.
I will probably apply to DO as well but I am not deluded as to why. It is another pathway towards becoming a physician and applying to these schools broadens my chances of starting on this path. I think a lot of people either don't get in to MD programs or are afraid they won't and subsequently rationalize why DO is better than MD. At the end of the day all that matters is you've become a doctor but as long as DO programs remain significantly less competitive people will have hangups and hesitations.
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In theory, everybody attending a DO school chose DO over MD. I am more interested in hearing about people who held acceptances to both MD and DO schools and chose the DO route. Then we are really talking about people who chose DO over MD.
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I understand your point about the MCAT/gpa factors not being as equal ... however, there are a few things to consider here. As DO application numbers go through the roof ... the averages are going up at all times. As of now, 1 in every 5 students in med school are attending a DO school, which means by 2019 (ish) 20% of all practicing physicians in the US will be DOs. This (to me) means that the numbers are going to continue to look more and more similiar as the field continues to merge. Also, remember that MCAT/gpa do not create a dedicated/qualified physician. This leads into my next point ... that the DO MD thing is really a pre-med battle more than anything. At this point in the game (I say this point because I am a pre-med myself), numbers are everthing. Ergo, schools with lower numbers should be looked down upon as inferior. In reality, this just isn't justified. The numbers are an indication of how well you will do in medical school/if you have earned your right to be accepted, not how well you will be trained/use your training from medical school to become a great doctor. I do respect the fact that you are applying to both ... but I do urge everyone who is applying to DO schools for whatever reason to figure out why you are applying to osteopathic medical schools. A lot of interviews ask 'why osteopathic,' and it's probably best to know 👍
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It's rare, but I've seen it happen. Last year one of my HS classmates withdrew all her applications once she got into MSU COM in early October. She had a 30, and in Michigan that's easily a good enough score from Wayne or MSU MD. Her father was a DO, and she wanted to follow in his footsteps... to each his own I guess.
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Wow...It doesn't really sound like you have had a whole lot of exposure to osteopathy. The biggest reason that I am applying is the holistic approach, but apparently these isn't a good reason in your mind. I don't make the claim that DO's are superior to MD's or visa versa. Your idea of competitiveness/cost is a pervasive idea in American society. People seem to have the idea that if something costs more it must be better. Just FYI, I am solely applying to DO programs with a 3.71 (3.75 BCPM) and a 41. I have also done extensive research and 2+ years of clinical experience.
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You are right about one thing: it is pretty much all in the minds of pre-meds. It ceases to be important after that.
I never said it wasn't a good reason, just that I think the type of medicine you practice is going to be more up to you than just a slightly different curriculum in your medical school. You are right that I've not had a great deal of exposure to osteopathy so maybe I'm completely off base. Also like I said I've heard of some MD programs that claim an emphasis on this approach.
This was exactly my point... though I never stated that the cost being greater makes it better, thats ridiculous! Also, as I stated there must be some people who are genuinely into osteopathy to the point of excluding MD programs, but I think you would agree its is extremely rare for someone in your position to be applying to DO schools only.
Competitiveness will probably always be associated in the general public's consciousness as an indicator of higher quality for better or for worse.
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The holistic approach applies to both degrees. A true physician is not going to walk into a room and see someone as a huge carbuncle, but rather someone with a bacterial infection (thanks microbio). That alone cannot be a decision factor in my mind.
As well it should. Nevertheless, we are talking about deciding what school one chooses to attend so this is the significant population to discuss.
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Well, there are some problems with your analysis:
1) The public, for the most part, doesn't care what your MCAT score or GPA was. Only pre-meds can write pages and pages of posts on those statistics.
2) The disparity between average statistics is closing. There are some osteopathic programs that have pretty high average statistics for their entering class. Not all allopathic programs have outrageous average statistics. While it is true that as a whole, the stats are lower for osteopathic medical schools, not everything in the admissions process is about these stats. At least, osteopathic medicals schools seem to think so.
3) Most people don't know and don't care whether you are a DO or an MD.
4) Average MCAT score and GPA are probably not the best indicators of whether it is the best school to attend.
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First off, my use of cost was a metaphor. If you would prefer, we can use a simpler example like Pepsi and Coke. If everyone thinks that Pepsi is better, than chances are someone new to soft drinks will choose Pepsi (Of course Coke is better).
Why are you even bothering applying to DO programs? Granted, in either case you will be a physician, but it seems that you will always have the idea that "I could have been an MD if only..." in your mind. There are a couple of important differences with respect to practicing. While in the US MD's and DO's are treated alike (WRT practice rights), DO's do not have the same practice rights in many other countries.
I highly suggest speaking with a few osteopathic physicians and osteopathic medical students to see exactly why they made the decision to pursue osteopathic medicine. There is quite a bit more than a "slightly different curriculum" that distinguishes osteopathy from allopathy.
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See my post way up above.
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There's only a few countries where MDs are accepted and DOs not yet. Yearly the number of countries that accept DOs increases.
International medical degree recognition is not much easier for MDs than DOs. It is very hard to gain practice rights abroad regardless of the degree.
Basically what I'm saying is that the most significant difference between DO and MD schools is not the "more holistic approach," the inclusion of OMM, the general curriculum or the quality of physician produced but the level of difficulty of gaining acceptance. As such I believe that competitiveness is the overriding factor in deciding to apply to DO schools. Along with this disparity in competitiveness an understandably (because many people think this way, not becuase it is necessarily justifiable) different orientation is held towards DO schools vs MD among the applicant population.
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So, you are solely applying to DO programs with a 3.71 (3.75 BCPM) and a 41. WOW😱 I am impressed.
I find it interesting that from 10/25/2004 to 10/31/2207 you have not posted anything.
Here is you getting into Temple in 2004
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1494792&postcount=21
Here is you deciding to attend Temple as Class of '08 in 2004
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1513405&postcount=92
Here is you saying you are an MS1 in 2004
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1861555&postcount=11
Keep trolling-👍
Just to clariy I wasn't insinuating the general public has a different orientation to the DO or MD degree, just that pre-med orientations fall within the more general phenomenon of people equating competitiveness with quality in many cases.
When the disparity in stats closes completely I believe it will be a short matter of time before you ever see another thread or hear another discussion of MD vs DO like the ones you see and hear now.
Point 3 is why I made my earlier post
I most definitely agree with point 4.
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BUSTED!!! haha
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I agree that there are more similarities than differences, but OMM is a pretty substantial difference. I am an osteopathic medical student. OMM is integrated into my curriculum.
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Umm...
Actually I had to take a leave in 2004 due to some pretty serious medical stuff. And a big part of my recovery was thanks to a DO. Thanks for finding my old posts though...I hadn't seen them in a while.
Actually I had to take a leave in 2004 due to some pretty serious medical stuff. And a big part of my recovery was thanks to a DO. Thanks for finding my old posts though...I hadn't seen them in a while.
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Maybe...
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Ha! OWNED.
Just as an aside, I've heard multiple DO students and DOs say that they rarely use the OMM that they learned in practice. What do you guys think about that?
