Do quartiles matter?

[AJS59]

Going to a high-midtier MD school in pre-clinical (everything is P/F preclinical, but pre-clinical contributes 20% to quartiles, compared to 70% for rotations which have grades and 10% for everything after rotations, which also have grades). Do our quartiles matter down the road in terms of residency? I'm passing things comfortably but with the class averaging, on most exams, around a 93%, it makes it particularly hard to consistently differentiate myself, and honestly if possible I'd rather try to enjoy as much of M1 year as possible and do other things (research, volunteering, etc.) before the rubber really hits the road next year (we do things differently and have essentially 12 months of preclinical before rotations).

For reference right now my top specialties of interest would probably be rads (IR over DR, but I like both) or one of the relatively less competitive surgical specialties (thinking urology or gen surg —> trauma or vascular) but also leaving options open in general — all what I know is that I like procedures and patient interactions and imaging but I want to be around people who take things relatively chill, which judging based on my classmates mostly rules out Ortho, Neurosurg, Derm, Plastics and Ophtho. Again, still early and figuring it out though.

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[GoSpursGo]

Yes

 

[AJS59]

Yes

I guess the better question I'm getting at is there a meaningful difference between quartiles? Like 2 applicants split down the middle even, 1 finishes 1st quartile 1 finishes 2nd. Is it like a 10/10 take the 1st quartile guy situation? I certainly see the difference between 1st and 4th, but at least for my school guessing based on math I'd need to hit damn near 100% on every exam to keep myself in the running of the 1st quartile, and right now I'm probably averaging 3% above median - good enough for 2nd quartile, but not sure if that's enough for first, especially when we're splitting hairs over 1-2 questions per in-house exam.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I'm not a PD, but I did participate in hiring as a software engineer before MS. I think the difference between 1st and 2nd quartile is probably incredibly negligible in a medical school class. Even 3rd quartile is probably in the range of a B average.

I'd care more about interpersonal/clinical skills and how you interact with the team if that was the main "stats" difference.

 

[LucidSplash]

I guess the better question I'm getting at is there a meaningful difference between quartiles? Like 2 applicants split down the middle even, 1 finishes 1st quartile 1 finishes 2nd. Is it like a 10/10 take the 1st quartile guy situation? I certainly see the difference between 1st and 4th, but at least for my school guessing based on math I'd need to hit damn near 100% on every exam to keep myself in the running of the 1st quartile, and right now I'm probably averaging 3% above median - good enough for 2nd quartile, but not sure if that's enough for first, especially when we're splitting hairs over 1-2 questions per in-house exam.

For highly competitive specialties everything matters. They are picking the people who are top at everything.

 

[AJS59]

For highly competitive specialties everything matters. They are picking the people who are top at everything.

Fair enough. I get the drive for 100% but I guess the question I gotta ask myself is it worth it to do so. I came out of undergrad with the mindset that I didn't need to be perfect at everything, but I guess gotta change that. Hell of a lot to manage high grades, nailing it in clinical skills within the curriculum and extracurricularly, building research, stacking volunteer hours and leadership, getting mentorship, preparing to crush step, and then on top of that trying to maintain a budding relationship, friendships, connections with family, interactions with my roommates, trying to limit spending, eating well, sleeping well, exercising and just generally being a human being.

Maybe I was naive to think that the rat race would be less as a med student. But I guess as master Yoda once said, do or do not, there is no try.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

You don't need to be the world's best med student to match gen Surg or rads from a mid tier MD tbh. Do what won't make you burn out.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

It’s overall package. Your class quartile. AOA, step 2, clinical grades, etc… etc… combination of all matters. If you have others things in top order and if you are 2nd quartile, you can definitely get in most competitive speciality like ortho or Ophtho or derm etc… leave alone gen surg or rads, definitely they remain open. Yes. First quartile definitely helps, but doors doesn’t close only because you are 2nd quartile for any speciality.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yes

 

[MDMechEngr]

It matters in that people in 1st quartile do very well on Steps and everything else. The vast majority of people in competive residencies tend to be in the 1st quartile of their class.

 

[SweetBurger]

You don't need to be the world's best med student to match gen Surg or rads from a mid tier MD tbh. Do what won't make you burn out.

that true, but it does matter depending on where you want to match in both of those specialties. The top 15/20 programs still require elite metrics across the board. Obviously, not everyone aspires for that or is even interested in that, but just adding some nuance. Class quartile in those instances matters (although even PD surveys dont weight it that heavily from what ive read)

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Everything competitive is about to skyrocket in competitiveness due to a variety of factors including p/f step 1, more schools, and other factors I’m not allowed to discuss. So yes quartile will become important even for specialties like gen surg, anes, obgyn

 

[AJS59]

Everything competitive is about to skyrocket in competitiveness due to a variety of factors including p/f step 1, more schools, and other factors I’m not allowed to discuss. So yes quartile will become important even for specialties like gen surg, anes, obgyn

Other factors I'm not allowed to discuss....such as?????

Personally after some self-reflection this weekend I've came to the conclusion that it's more worthwhile to view preclinical as a studying chance to get ready for what really matters (clinicals + step) rather than actively try to denigrate my own mental health over missing 2 questions based on 1 single bullet point in 1000 slides. Maybe its the wrong attitude to have (and please, do correct me if I'm incorrect) but I want to take some pride in my work and scoring 93% or higher on 10/11 exams in med school so far is worthwhile to me, regardless of how my class as a whole performs. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that well generally portends well for step and clincials, regardless of the medians?

And to add to the point about top programs, while top programs are nice at the end of the day as long as I have options within academic medicine I'm generally happy. Maybe I'm wrong again, but I don't think the top 15-20 programs generally have significant differences in access to private practice jobs, fellowships, or general career arc compared to most other non-malignant academic programs in these fields.

If I'm wrong and Vox is right, guess I'll be unemployed. But I'm willing to take my chances on just continuing on my current path.

 

[Doctoscope]

Other factors I'm not allowed to discuss....such as?????

Personally after some self-reflection this weekend I've came to the conclusion that it's more worthwhile to view preclinical as a studying chance to get ready for what really matters (clinicals + step) rather than actively try to denigrate my own mental health over missing 2 questions based on 1 single bullet point in 1000 slides. Maybe its the wrong attitude to have (and please, do correct me if I'm incorrect) but I want to take some pride in my work and scoring 93% or higher on 10/11 exams in med school so far is worthwhile to me, regardless of how my class as a whole performs. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that well generally portends well for step and clincials, regardless of the medians?

And to add to the point about top programs, while top programs are nice at the end of the day as long as I have options within academic medicine I'm generally happy. Maybe I'm wrong again, but I don't think the top 15-20 programs generally have significant differences in access to private practice jobs, fellowships, or general career arc compared to most other non-malignant academic programs in these fields.

If I'm wrong and Vox is right, guess I'll be unemployed. But I'm willing to take my chances on just continuing on my current path.

He's obsessed with AI replacing doctors, and talked quite a lot about it.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Other factors I'm not allowed to discuss....such as?????

Personally after some self-reflection this weekend I've came to the conclusion that it's more worthwhile to view preclinical as a studying chance to get ready for what really matters (clinicals + step) rather than actively try to denigrate my own mental health over missing 2 questions based on 1 single bullet point in 1000 slides. Maybe its the wrong attitude to have (and please, do correct me if I'm incorrect) but I want to take some pride in my work and scoring 93% or higher on 10/11 exams in med school so far is worthwhile to me, regardless of how my class as a whole performs. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that well generally portends well for step and clincials, regardless of the medians?

And to add to the point about top programs, while top programs are nice at the end of the day as long as I have options within academic medicine I'm generally happy. Maybe I'm wrong again, but I don't think the top 15-20 programs generally have significant differences in access to private practice jobs, fellowships, or general career arc compared to most other non-malignant academic programs in these fields.

If I'm wrong and Vox is right, guess I'll be unemployed. But I'm willing to take my chances on just continuing on my current path.

You are perfectly right and you will just do fine, remain on course on what you are doing and stay honest to yourself, that you are putting your sincere and best effort. As I mentioned getting 1st quartile of course is very good. But being in 2nd quartile doesn’t mean death sentence for any and most competitive speciality also. IR, Ortho, Ophtho, Nuevo Surg, Derm, etc… all will be open if you are 2nd quartile and have good package of good step 2, good clinical grades, possibly AOA. LOR speaking in depth about your character from well known faculty in given speciality etc … Good luck! You will do well !

 

[amoxicillin_resistant]

Everything competitive is about to skyrocket in competitiveness due to a variety of factors including p/f step 1, more schools, and other factors I’m not allowed to discuss. So yes quartile will become important even for specialties like gen surg, anes, obgyn

NOOOO VOX BECAME UNWOKE

THEYRE PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER TURNING THE FROGS G(AI)

 

[collegestud2013]

Going to a high-midtier MD school in pre-clinical (everything is P/F preclinical, but pre-clinical contributes 20% to quartiles, compared to 70% for rotations which have grades and 10% for everything after rotations, which also have grades). Do our quartiles matter down the road in terms of residency? I'm passing things comfortably but with the class averaging, on most exams, around a 93%, it makes it particularly hard to consistently differentiate myself, and honestly if possible I'd rather try to enjoy as much of M1 year as possible and do other things (research, volunteering, etc.) before the rubber really hits the road next year (we do things differently and have essentially 12 months of preclinical before rotations).

For reference right now my top specialties of interest would probably be rads (IR over DR, but I like both) or one of the relatively less competitive surgical specialties (thinking urology or gen surg —> trauma or vascular) but also leaving options open in general — all what I know is that I like procedures and patient interactions and imaging but I want to be around people who take things relatively chill, which judging based on my classmates mostly rules out Ortho, Neurosurg, Derm, Plastics and Ophtho. Again, still early and figuring it out though.

Yes, it matters as long as your school is reporting ranks to residency programs. Don't have to be top quartile for the specialties you're interested in, but being bottom quartile will make it harder (but not impossible) to match into even semi-competitive specialiities, unless your app is strong in other