DO residency match

[smellyfeetman]

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So, I've been accepted at both MD and DO schools now. I'm leaning more towards attending one particular DO school, because I like the location and family-friendly atmosphere. I'm also exited to receive the extra training in OMT that I would get at the osteopathic school. I've heard that the major challenge facing DO students right now (and probably still in 5 years) is in applying to residencies. Is there a percentage of DOs that apply but still don't get matched anywhere their first year after graduation? What other disadvantages are there to choosing DO school over an MD program?

 

[stonewall22]

So, I've been accepted at both MD and DO schools now. I'm leaning more towards attending one particular DO school, because I like the location and family-friendly atmosphere. I'm also exited to receive the extra training in OMT that I would get at the osteopathic school. I've heard that the major challenge facing DO students right now (and probably still in 5 years) is in applying to residencies. Is there a percentage of DOs that apply but still don't get matched anywhere their first year after graduation? What other disadvantages are there to choosing DO school over an MD program?

I think it really depends on the field you go into. For the primary care residencies I don't think getting an MD or DO residency is a problem.

 

[DrMidlife]

If you go to an MD school, and you want a competitive residency, you do this:
1. Get excellent grades in preclinical years
2. Get an excellent USMLE step 1 board score
3. Publish research
4. Get excellent evaluations from the dean and your profs (and/or LORs)
5. Get honors in as many 3rd year rotations as possible
6. Get excellent USMLE step 2 scores (two exams)
7. Do at least 2 audition rotations, during 4th year, at residency programs in which you're interested, and make a strong positive impression
8. Organize your 4th year so that you can easily get away for residency interviews in October-January, and push any required 4th year rotations out to the end of the year
9. Apply to one or more match programs for ACGME/"MD" residencies (not all residencies use the same match).

If you go to a DO school, and you want to pursue a competitive ACGME/"MD" residency, you do all of the above, with the following points of interest:
1. You have to take the COMLEX exams in addition to the USMLE exams. Passing the COMLEX exams is a requirement for DO graduation and licensing. The COMLEX tests OPP, and the USMLE has more biochem, so it's not quite two-birds-one-stone.
2. You have to do some work to get your 4th year scheduled favorably. DO schools typically have lots of 4th year electives (to be used for auditions), but there are also lots of 4th year required rotations, and you may be up against a lottery to get your electives when you need them. You have to complete your 3rd year rotations to be eligible for auditions, and auditions need to be done as early in 4th year as possible, and you need to be free for interviews Oct-Jan. If you get scheduled to do a 4 month rural FM rotation from July - Oct, you're screwed.
3. You have to bypass the AOA/DO match. If you participate in the AOA/DO match, and you are matched in an AOA/DO residency, you're contractually bound to go.
4. You have to think about where you're going to practice, and whether you're required to do a traditional AOA/DO rotating internship. To be licensed to practice by the osteopathic board in 5 states (FL, WV, MI, PA, OK) you are required to use your intern year in an AOA/DO internship, which might start the clock on your residency, which might mean you're out of training funds a year early. There's a Rule 42 exception you can file with the AOA to bypass the traditional requirement, and 99% of these are approved. You can find combined AOA/ACGME residencies where the first year is approved by the AOA, but not typically with competitive ACGME programs.
5. In competing for an ACGME residency, you will run into residency program directors who still believe that DOs are poorly trained, and the interview/match process will expose DO stigma. So the more educated you can be about which residencies have already had DOs, or have DO faculty, etc., the more likely you are to succeed. This starts being relevant during 3rd year when you start pursuing auditions - don't waste an audition at a program that isn't going to interview you.

Also:
1. If you go to an MD school you aren't eligible for AOA/DO residencies.
2. If you go to a DO school and you want to do an ACGME primary care residency, you might not have to take the USMLE, and you might not have to do auditions, depending on the ACGME residency's history with DOs.
3. If you go to a DO school and you want to do a competitive DO residency (like ortho), you don't have to worry about the USMLE, but you still need to do auditions with DO ortho programs.

Highly recommended reading: Iserson's Getting into a Residency.

Obviously I learned all this stuff because I'm going DO and interested in competitive ACGME residencies, but caveat emptor - I'm still just a premed.

Best of luck to you.

 

[andexterouss]

So, I've been accepted at both MD and DO schools now. I'm leaning more towards attending one particular DO school, because I like the location and family-friendly atmosphere. I'm also exited to receive the extra training in OMT that I would get at the osteopathic school. I've heard that the major challenge facing DO students right now (and probably still in 5 years) is in applying to residencies. Is there a percentage of DOs that apply but still don't get matched anywhere their first year after graduation? What other disadvantages are there to choosing DO school over an MD program?

This question gets asked all the time. I'm assuming it's a US MD school you were accepted to. 77% of DOs that apply to MD programs match compare to 98% of US MD students.
OMT is rarely used to DOs in their practice so I'm not really sure if it's a good reason to go to DO school.
Location and friendly-atmosphere are good reasons but should not be the cornerstone of your decision making. Basically, my advice is to look at both schools and compare the match rate, teaching and resources of each school.
Which school will give has resources and history of preparing and matching students in your choice of specialty?
Basically, if you are interested in optho, derm ,plastics or uro, go to MD school.

 

[Tappy]

"4. You have to think about where you're going to practice, and whether you're required to do a traditional AOA/DO rotating internship. To be licensed to practice by the osteopathic board in 5 states (FL, WV, MI, PA, OK) you are required to use your intern year in an AOA/DO internship, which might start the clock on your residency, which might mean you're out of training funds a year early. There's a Rule 42 exception you can file with the AOA to bypass the traditional requirement, and 99% of these are approved. You can find combined AOA/ACGME residencies where the first year is approved by the AOA, but not typically with competitive ACGME programs."

Could you explain a bit more about this required intern year in an AOA/DO internship? Does this mean that no matter what you end up doing for residency, if you want to practice in one of this states you have to do a year in an AOA residency? What about people who match into ACGME EM, for instance, where does their AOA intern year come from?

 

[PunkmedGirl]

This question gets asked all the time. I'm assuming it's a US MD school you were accepted to. 77% of DOs that apply to MD programs match compare to 98% of US MD students.
OMT is rarely used to DOs in their practice so I'm not really sure if it's a good reason to go to DO school.
Location and friendly-atmosphere are good reasons but should not be the cornerstone of your decision making. Basically, my advice is to look at both schools and compare the match rate, teaching and resources of each school.
Which school will give has resources and history of preparing and matching students in your choice of specialty?
Basically, if you are interested in optho, derm ,plastics or uro, go to MD school.

That's not true because DO's have their own residencies in those fields so going to a DO school will not alienate you from those specialities. Both are very competitive to get into so being a MD doesn't get you into those specialities.

 

[DrMidlife]

"4. You have to think about where you're going to practice, and whether you're required to do a traditional AOA/DO rotating internship. To be licensed to practice by the osteopathic board in 5 states (FL, WV, MI, PA, OK) you are required to use your intern year in an AOA/DO internship, which might start the clock on your residency, which might mean you're out of training funds a year early. There's a Rule 42 exception you can file with the AOA to bypass the traditional requirement, and 99% of these are approved. You can find combined AOA/ACGME residencies where the first year is approved by the AOA, but not typically with competitive ACGME programs."

Could you explain a bit more about this required intern year in an AOA/DO internship? Does this mean that no matter what you end up doing for residency, if you want to practice in one of this states you have to do a year in an AOA residency? What about people who match into ACGME EM, for instance, where does their AOA intern year come from?

I believe I already answered what you're asking in what I wrote, so I'd suggest that you look into more breadth of understanding. I've spent more than a year researching these issues, and they are painfully difficult to comprehend. The AOA website has more information here: https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=edu_main&au=S&SubPageID=sir_postdoc

 

[andexterouss]

That's not true because DO's have their own residencies in those fields so going to a DO school will not alienate you from those specialities. Both are very competitive to get into so being a MD doesn't get you into those specialities.

Yes DOs have their own but we have very few slots in these specialties. In addition, some of these are not linked in some programs which means you have to apply again after your internship to match PGY-2 in these specialties. Too much of a risk. The OP is fortunate to be in the position to choose where to go. I think the best advice to the OP is to go where gives you a much better chance of achieving your goal.

 

[DrMidlife]

Statistics on how DOs fare in the ACGME match, compared to MDs and FMGs, is on the NRMP site at http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html. Table 4 in THE 2008 "Results and Data", in particular, shows that:

94.2% of US MD school graduating seniors matched
71.6% of DO applicants matched (a record high)
62.2% of Canadians matched
51.9% of US IMGs matched
42.4% of FMGs matched

Edit: the stats for the DO match are less comprehensible, because it's impossible to tell what percentage of those doing traditional rotating internships are actually matched into a PGY2+ program or are then going to pursue an ACGME residency for PGY2+.

Another edit: the DO match stats for '08 can be found here: http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/matresly.htm

 

[Tappy]

While I haven't done a year of research on this issue, I have looked into. I guess a better question to your original post, is "how many ACGME residencies either don't qualify for a waiver under resolution 42, or aren't dual AOA/ACGME accredited?" My research seems to indicate that the traditional AOA intern year "requirement" is pretty much a non-issue.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

It seems necessary to point out that the nearly 30% of DOs that don't match into ACGME residencies are not stuck twiddling their thumbs for a year.

 

[DrMidlife]

It seems necessary to point out that the nearly 30% of DOs that don't match into ACGME residencies are not stuck twiddling their thumbs for a year.

Not twiddling, no, but they do have to scramble to get an internship. Which means fighting over the leftovers, and then having to apply to the residency match again.

 

[DrMidlife]

While I haven't done a year of research on this issue, I have looked into. I guess a better question to your original post, is "how many ACGME residencies either don't qualify for a waiver under resolution 42, or aren't dual AOA/ACGME accredited?" My research seems to indicate that the traditional AOA intern year "requirement" is pretty much a non-issue.

If by "non-issue" you mean that you don't have to worry about it because rule 42 exceptions are so easy to get, that's my impression as well. There are plenty of ACGME residencies that don't "qualify" for rule 42, because of how their 1st year is structured, but with 99% approval it's hard to judge whether the ACGME program's compliance with AOA guidelines is even an issue.

There's little info on combined AOA/ACGME residencies, and the "dually-accredited" data listed in opportunities.osteopathic.org doesn't seem to match reality, from my perusal. In your case I'd look at Christiana Care in Delaware for an example of a hospital that is DO-friendly, hosts traditional AOA rotating internships, and has a large number of DOs in their EM, EM/FM, EM/IM programs. If this program isn't dually-accredited, I don't know who is.

Take a look over in the osteo forum for details and current discussions from folks who are currently up against all this stuff. Typically a rule 42 approval requires that you make a presentation at an AOA convention, for example. Good to know...

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Yes DOs have their own but we have very few slots in these specialties. In addition, some of these are not linked in some programs which means you have to apply again after your internship to match PGY-2 in these specialties. Too much of a risk. The OP is fortunate to be in the position to choose where to go. I think the best advice to the OP is to go where gives you a much better chance of achieving your goal.

I understand what you are saying about the non-linked programs but most of those programs are also only taking in the same number of interns they have for they PGY2 spots.

Edit: I'm not 100% sure but aren't they doing away with those non-linked programs??

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Does everyone feel that doing the rotating internship as being a bad idea??

 

[RySerr21]

This question gets asked all the time. I'm assuming it's a US MD school you were accepted to. 77% of DOs that apply to MD programs match compare to 98% of US MD students.
OMT is rarely used to DOs in their practice so I'm not really sure if it's a good reason to go to DO school.
Location and friendly-atmosphere are good reasons but should not be the cornerstone of your decision making. Basically, my advice is to look at both schools and compare the match rate, teaching and resources of each school.
Which school will give has resources and history of preparing and matching students in your choice of specialty?
Basically, if you are interested in optho, derm ,plastics or uro, go to MD school.

You cant take the factors that are important to you and impose them on other people. Thats not how it works. Everyone will have his or her own reason and those are reasons are important to him or her. Just because most other DOs don't use OMM doesnt mean I am not going to use OMM......or person X or person Y is not going to use OMM. Its all based on your own personal opinion and objetives.

 

[DrMidlife]

Personally, I have no interest in using OMM in practice, but I'm pretty excited about getting a comprehensive, living, three-dimensional understanding of anatomy, well beyond dissection and memorization of insertions and tuberosities etc., and about having palpation skills that our MD colleagues will be missing.

Would this drive me to a DO program over an MD program? Hmm, tough one. Didn't have that choice.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Personally, I have no interest in using OMM in practice, but I'm pretty excited about getting a comprehensive, living, three-dimensional understanding of anatomy, well beyond dissection and memorization of insertions and tuberosities etc., and about having palpation skills that our MD colleagues will be missing.

Would this drive me to a DO program over an MD program? Hmm, tough one. Didn't have that choice.

Meh pick DO program you know we get special training in the secret of art voodoo ninja😎

 

[andexterouss]

You cant take the factors that are important to you and impose them on other people. Thats not how it works. Everyone will have his or her own reason and those are reasons are important to him or her. Just because most other DOs don't use OMM doesnt mean I am not going to use OMM......or person X or person Y is not going to use OMM. Its all based on your own personal opinion and objetives.

Oh sheesh. The OP came to a public forum asking for advice and everyone here will give one based on their personal experience and factual resources. No one is "imposing" anything on the OP. He/she can choose to do whatever they want regardless of what I/we say.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

OP, although most DOs don't use OMT in practice, certain specialties are obviously more conducive to its use than others (FM, OMM, PM&R). The nice thing is that many DO schools have opportunities for advanced training, research, and undergrad fellowships in OMT (sometimes a school will pay a year of your tuition if you do stay one year after you graduate, learning advanced OMT and training med students). Then you could possibly do an OMM residency or a combined FM-OMM residency, if you wish. Plenty of opportunities to get proficient in OMT, if that's your thing. Even more encouraging is the fact in many areas there is a high demand and low supply of OMM docs. 👍👍

 

[Cp22kjer]

Statistics on how DOs fare in the ACGME match, compared to MDs and FMGs, is on the NRMP site at http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html. Table 4 in THE 2008 "Results and Data", in particular, shows that:

94.2% of US MD school graduating seniors matched
71.6% of DO applicants matched (a record high)
62.2% of Canadians matched
51.9% of US IMGs matched
42.4% of FMGs matched

Edit: the stats for the DO match are less comprehensible, because it's impossible to tell what percentage of those doing traditional rotating internships are actually matched into a PGY2+ program or are then going to pursue an ACGME residency for PGY2+.

Another edit: the DO match stats for '08 can be found here: http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/matresly.htm

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to post the initial breakdown also. I think you've laid down a great explanation in the differences. 👍

 

[scpod]

I'm not 100% sure but aren't they doing away with those non-linked programs??

Just about right. Under the new structure only Dermatology, Occupational/Preventive Medicine, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, and Proctology do not have a linked intern year. In other words, in all other osteopathic specialties you match into the internship and at least the next year as well. The number of stand-alone traditional osteopathic rotating internships has greatly decreased these days.

It is interesting to note that since 2000 more than 50% of graduating DOs ended up in osteopathic first year positions. Many later entered ACGME residencies, though. The number that can now do that, however, is limited due to the fact that the structure changed this past July. If you fail to match in ACGME, you no longer have a guaranteed traditional osteopathic internship available-- most of them are linked to residencies now.

Remember, too, that 90% of DOs in the AOA match get their 1st choice of positions. There are quite a few good ones out there up for grabs. The people who whine about how few DO specialty spots there are don't seem to get the fact that not everyone wants those spots. A whole lot of people really do want good primary care spots out there.

As for the large number of Proposition 42 approvals out there....well, it doesn't really mean a lot. Why? Because people who don't qualify aren't going to apply for the exception. I know people who could easily get it but don't because they didn't feel like spending an elective month doing a FP rotation. Note that there have been many proposals to change the rules for this too...so don't count on it being the same when you get there in a few years. It's likely to change a bit.

As for the original question. I don't know anyone who doesn't eventually get a residency position, although it may not be one that they want. But, nobody goes into this with a guarantee of any kind of position at all. The top students at all schools end up with good residencies and the bottom dwellers take what they can get. If you are in the middle to the bottom of your class-- either DO or MD-- you take what you can get.

 

[p30doc]

If you go to an MD school, and you want a competitive residency, you do this:
1. Get excellent grades in preclinical years
2. Get an excellent USMLE step 1 board score
3. Publish research
4. Get excellent evaluations from the dean and your profs (and/or LORs)
5. Get honors in as many 3rd year rotations as possible
6. Get excellent USMLE step 2 scores (two exams)
7. Do at least 2 audition rotations, during 4th year, at residency programs in which you're interested, and make a strong positive impression
8. Organize your 4th year so that you can easily get away for residency interviews in October-January, and push any required 4th year rotations out to the end of the year
9. Apply to one or more match programs for ACGME/"MD" residencies (not all residencies use the same match).

If you go to a DO school, and you want to pursue a competitive ACGME/"MD" residency, you do all of the above, with the following points of interest:
1. You have to take the COMLEX exams in addition to the USMLE exams. Passing the COMLEX exams is a requirement for DO graduation and licensing. The COMLEX tests OPP, and the USMLE has more biochem, so it's not quite two-birds-one-stone.
2. You have to do some work to get your 4th year scheduled favorably. DO schools typically have lots of 4th year electives (to be used for auditions), but there are also lots of 4th year required rotations, and you may be up against a lottery to get your electives when you need them. You have to complete your 3rd year rotations to be eligible for auditions, and auditions need to be done as early in 4th year as possible, and you need to be free for interviews Oct-Jan. If you get scheduled to do a 4 month rural FM rotation from July - Oct, you're screwed.
3. You have to bypass the AOA/DO match. If you participate in the AOA/DO match, and you are matched in an AOA/DO residency, you're contractually bound to go.
4. You have to think about where you're going to practice, and whether you're required to do a traditional AOA/DO rotating internship. To be licensed to practice by the osteopathic board in 5 states (FL, WV, MI, PA, OK) you are required to use your intern year in an AOA/DO internship, which might start the clock on your residency, which might mean you're out of training funds a year early. There's a Rule 42 exception you can file with the AOA to bypass the traditional requirement, and 99% of these are approved. You can find combined AOA/ACGME residencies where the first year is approved by the AOA, but not typically with competitive ACGME programs.
5. In competing for an ACGME residency, you will run into residency program directors who still believe that DOs are poorly trained, and the interview/match process will expose DO stigma. So the more educated you can be about which residencies have already had DOs, or have DO faculty, etc., the more likely you are to succeed. This starts being relevant during 3rd year when you start pursuing auditions - don't waste an audition at a program that isn't going to interview you.

Also:
1. If you go to an MD school you aren't eligible for AOA/DO residencies.
2. If you go to a DO school and you want to do an ACGME primary care residency, you might not have to take the USMLE, and you might not have to do auditions, depending on the ACGME residency's history with DOs.
3. If you go to a DO school and you want to do a competitive DO residency (like ortho), you don't have to worry about the USMLE, but you still need to do auditions with DO ortho programs.

Highly recommended reading: Iserson's Getting into a Residency.

Obviously I learned all this stuff because I'm going DO and interested in competitive ACGME residencies, but caveat emptor - I'm still just a premed.

Best of luck to you.

wow thanks for that extensive write up!!!

 

[Just Joshin]

If someone does a transitional rotation internship, are they a year behind if they match in the MD match the next year? Or do MD programs allow that to count for your intern year? So say I want to do psych eventually and do a TRI first and then apply to MD psych programs for year two. Do I have to repeat intern year if I match into an allo program?

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Just about right. Under the new structure only Dermatology, Occupational/Preventive Medicine, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, and Proctology do not have a linked intern year. In other words, in all other osteopathic specialties you match into the internship and at least the next year as well. The number of stand-alone traditional osteopathic rotating internships has greatly decreased these days.

It is interesting to note that since 2000 more than 50% of graduating DOs ended up in osteopathic first year positions. Many later entered ACGME residencies, though. The number that can now do that, however, is limited due to the fact that the structure changed this past July. If you fail to match in ACGME, you no longer have a guaranteed traditional osteopathic internship available-- most of them are linked to residencies now.

Remember, too, that 90% of DOs in the AOA match get their 1st choice of positions. There are quite a few good ones out there up for grabs. The people who whine about how few DO specialty spots there are don't seem to get the fact that not everyone wants those spots. A whole lot of people really do want good primary care spots out there.

As for the large number of Proposition 42 approvals out there....well, it doesn't really mean a lot. Why? Because people who don't qualify aren't going to apply for the exception. I know people who could easily get it but don't because they didn't feel like spending an elective month doing a FP rotation. Note that there have been many proposals to change the rules for this too...so don't count on it being the same when you get there in a few years. It's likely to change a bit.

As for the original question. I don't know anyone who doesn't eventually get a residency position, although it may not be one that they want. But, nobody goes into this with a guarantee of any kind of position at all. The top students at all schools end up with good residencies and the bottom dwellers take what they can get. If you are in the middle to the bottom of your class-- either DO or MD-- you take what you can get.

First, I would like to say I feel really honored that YOU responded to my question.😀 And of course thank you. That's good to know because I plan to apply to only DO residencies whenever my time comes.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Passing the COMLEX exams is a requirement for DO graduation and licensing.

Just a small correction in an otherwise very good and informative post. Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well.

 

[Just Joshin]

Just a small correction in an otherwise very good and informative post. Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well.

So then can a person take the USMLE only and not take the COMLEX? Or is COMLEX necessary for graduation from osteopathic school?

 

[TexasPhysician]

I think "COST" should also be something to look at between the two schools. Being $60,000 in debt vs $300,000 in debt is a big difference.

Say the DO school is TCOM (in-state tuition) vs an MD school in New York ---I'd choose the DO school in a second.

Say the DO school is Touro in CA (tuition = $40,000) vs an MD school in TX ($8000ish I believe) - I'd be going MD.

You can get a great education anywhere. Medical school is really what you make of it. Choose a location where you are happy that also provides you with minimal debt.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

So then can a person take the USMLE only and not take the COMLEX? Or is COMLEX necessary for graduation from osteopathic school?

Normally COMLEX 2 is required for graduation. If you have taken USMLE I/II then USMLE III will suffice for licensure in many states.

 

[DrMidlife]

Just a small correction in an otherwise very good and informative post. Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well.

Normally COMLEX 2 is required for graduation. If you have taken USMLE I/II then USMLE III will suffice for licensure in many states.

I've seen no evidence that the above is true. Wanna provide some? Such as the name of a DO school that doesn't require all the COMLEX exams for graduation, and/or a state that will license you without them?

Here's what the AACOM CIB book says:

"In order to be licensed as an osteopathic physician, one must:

• Graduate from an accredited U.S. college of osteopathic medicine.

• Successfully complete the Comprehensive Osteopathic Licensure Examination (COMLEX), Levels I, II, III and PE. This examination is administered by the National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners (NBOME). Level I of the exam is taken after the second year of medical school prior to the last two years of clerkship training. Level II is taken at the end of the clinical clerkship years prior to graduating from osteopathic medical school. Level III is taken prior to the end of the internship year. The COMLEX-PE is an examination developed to test physical examination skills.

Osteopathic medical students are also eligible to take the United States Medical Licensure Examination (USMLE), which is taken by students in allopathic (MD-granting) medical schools."

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I've seen no evidence that the above is true. Wanna provide some? Such as the name of a DO school that doesn't require all the COMLEX exams for graduation, and/or a state that will license you without them?

Here's what the AACOM CIB book says:

"In order to be licensed as an osteopathic physician, one must:

• Graduate from an accredited U.S. college of osteopathic medicine.

• Successfully complete the Comprehensive Osteopathic Licensure Examination (COMLEX), Levels I, II, III and PE. This examination is administered by the National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners (NBOME). Level I of the exam is taken after the second year of medical school prior to the last two years of clerkship training. Level II is taken at the end of the clinical clerkship years prior to graduating from osteopathic medical school. Level III is taken prior to the end of the internship year. The COMLEX-PE is an examination developed to test physical examination skills.

Osteopathic medical students are also eligible to take the United States Medical Licensure Examination (USMLE), which is taken by students in allopathic (MD-granting) medical schools."

Other than the fact that I am a fully licensed physician who has not taken COMLEX III🙄 and you are a premed🙄

Nobody takes the third exam before finishing medical school.

This is directly from the New Hampshire Board of Medicine website:

Licensure Requirements
Before completing the application process, please review the following requirements for licensure in New Hampshire:
•
Obtained the M.D./D.O. degree or its equivalent as determined by the Board;
•
Completed at least 2 years of postgraduate training in the U.S. or Canada approved by the Board, or its equivalent as determined by the Board;
•
Successfully passed a national licensing examination sequence (or its acceptable hybrid combination) as approved by the Board on each examination, including:
•
National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) Part I, II and III;
•
Pre-1985 FLEX or FLEX Component 1 and 2;
•
USMLE Step 1, 2 and 3;
•
NBOME Part I, II and III (or COMLEX);
•
Licentiate of the Medical Council of Canada (LMCC).


If you go to the FSMB website (are you familiar w/it? 🙄) you will find links to every states medical board website and their requirements for licensure. I would suggest you peruse this information.

 

[DrMidlife]

Other than the fact that I am a fully licensed physician who has not taken COMLEX III🙄 and you are a premed🙄

Nice snark. So you're saying requirements never change?

Thanks for covering New Hampshire's licensing requirements. Odds are you went to UNECOM, which has the following on its website:

"Effective with the class entering in the fall of 2004, students are allowed a maximum of three attempts to pass COMLEX-USA Level 1 and each component of COMLEX-USA Level 2. Failure to pass any individual component of the COMLEX-USA examination series after three attempts will result in dismissal from the College. "

Did you not have to take any of the COMLEX exams to graduate from your DO school? Does your DO school still not require them?

It would seem that a requirement to pass COMLEX I/II in order to graduate would factor into "obtained the MD/DO degree" for the licensing board, no? Fine, so the COMLEX III/PE exams aren't required, but this seems to fall a ways from your original claim that COMLEX isn't required for DO licensing. If it's not a requirement, then please name a DO school that will graduate you without the COMLEX. That's all I'm asking.

Lowly premed out.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Nice snark. So you're saying requirements never change?

Thanks for covering New Hampshire's licensing requirements. Odds are you went to UNECOM, which has the following on its website:

"Effective with the class entering in the fall of 2004, students are allowed a maximum of three attempts to pass COMLEX-USA Level 1 and each component of COMLEX-USA Level 2. Failure to pass any individual component of the COMLEX-USA examination series after three attempts will result in dismissal from the College. "

Did you not have to take any of the COMLEX exams to graduate from your DO school? Does your DO school still not require them?

It would seem that a requirement to pass COMLEX I/II in order to graduate would factor into "obtained the MD/DO degree" for the licensing board, no? Fine, so the COMLEX III/PE exams aren't required, but this seems to fall a ways from your original claim that COMLEX isn't required for DO licensing. If it's not a requirement, then please name a DO school that will graduate you without the COMLEX. That's all I'm asking.

Lowly premed out.

I did not go to UNECOM. I picked NH as a random example.

This is what I originally said:

"Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well."

Reread it. I never stated that I never took any of the COMLEX exams. I took I/II, as was required by my school (and I assume is required by all schools).

You cannot take the third exam unless you have graduated. Directly from the NBOME Bulletin:

COMLEX-USA Level 3
A candidate is eligible to take the COMLEX-USA Level 3 examination if he or she meets
the following requirements:
1. Passed the COMLEX-USA Level 1, COMLEX-USA Level 2-CE and Level 2-PE
examinations as determined by the NBOME.
2. Graduated from an osteopathic medical school accredited by the American
Osteopathic Association's Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (AOACOCA) with an earned D.O. degree and the NBOME has received confirmation from the Office of the Dean of the candidate's college/school of matriculation (or a verified copy of his or her diploma from an accredited osteopathic medical school).



I took COMLEX I/II because I had to. I took USMLE I/II because I wanted to. I took USMLE III because it was logistically easier and was all that I needed. I never took COMLEX III. Hence my original statement:

"Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well."

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Nice snark.

I prefer "testy". That is nothing compared to the anesthesiology forum where I usually hang out😎.

I do take issue when I see misinformation propagated though.

 

[Cp22kjer]

"Completing the COMLEX series is not a requisite for licensure. The USMLE pathway can be used as well."

I did not realize you could do that. Of course things are different now as I remember when only Step 1 was required 🙄.....or at least I think thats what it used to be.

Thanks for the information.

 

[scpod]

One caveat, Florida (who has a separate osteopathic licensing board) does require all 3 COMLEX exams for licensure. They specifically state USMLE and FLEX exams are not good enough. I suspect the few other states who have a separate board may have that requirement as well. I'd check on that if you want to practice in one of them.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

One caveat, Florida (who has a separate osteopathic licensing board) does require all 3 COMLEX exams for licensure. They specifically state USMLE and FLEX exams are not good enough. I suspect the few other states who have a separate board may have that requirement as well. I'd check on that if you want to practice in one of them.

Absolutely. The best source of info. is the FSMB website that lists all the individual state medical boards. Who knows, maybe I hosed myself in the future. As it stands though there is no reason for me to practice medicine in any of the "big 5". Surprisingly there were a few states that have osteopathic medical boards though they do not have an osteopathic medical school.

There is always the COMVEX I guess.

 

[javed13]

I was looking at the statistical summary by college linked earlier in this thread:
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

What is a non-participant?

 

[tkim]

I was looking at the statistical summary by college linked earlier in this thread:
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/schltot.htm

What is a non-participant?

Someone who didn't participate in the DO match. Means they either didn't go through the match at all, or only went through the MD match.