DO Students hating on DOs

[Just Joshin]

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But apparently if you are a D.O. you DO get to bill more. Just ran into this one where my wife went to the doctor for an issue that was OMM/OPP/OMT, whatever you want to call it related. Paid the co-pay, went in and got worked on for a few minutes, and then got an extra bill for the techniques performed. This came as a shock and disappointment to me to see that some D.O.'s will charge you for the normal office visit, see you for the normal lenght of time (10-15 minutes at most), do some OMM then send you a bill on top of your co-pay and insurance for the HVLA, ME, or whatever they performed. WTH? Seems about like charging somebody extra for listening to their heart and lungs in my opinion.

Why wouldn't insurance have paid for that? You should only be paying a co-pay once you meet your deductible anyway. The rest should be paid through insurance and I would bet that's what this doctor thought would happen. OMM is a service they provide. Why wouldn't they bill for it?

 

[nlax30]

OMT is an extra service/treatment, why shouldn't they bill for it? Now, he should've brought up what OMT is, how it may help and asked if she wanted it, but it's certainly not just "included" in a typical office visit.

 

[NYEMMED]

But apparently if you are a D.O. you DO get to bill more. Just ran into this one where my wife went to the doctor for an issue that was OMM/OPP/OMT, whatever you want to call it related. Paid the co-pay, went in and got worked on for a few minutes, and then got an extra bill for the techniques performed. This came as a shock and disappointment to me to see that some D.O.'s will charge you for the normal office visit, see you for the normal lenght of time (10-15 minutes at most), do some OMM then send you a bill on top of your co-pay and insurance for the HVLA, ME, or whatever they performed. WTH? Seems about like charging somebody extra for listening to their heart and lungs in my opinion.

I go to a DO and he does OMM on me but ive only payed a co-pay. He bills my insurance for the office visit, and OMM, but my insurance covers all of it, I would bring this up with your insurance company...

 

[JaggerPlate]

But apparently if you are a D.O. you DO get to bill more. Just ran into this one where my wife went to the doctor for an issue that was OMM/OPP/OMT, whatever you want to call it related. Paid the co-pay, went in and got worked on for a few minutes, and then got an extra bill for the techniques performed. This came as a shock and disappointment to me to see that some D.O.'s will charge you for the normal office visit, see you for the normal lenght of time (10-15 minutes at most), do some OMM then send you a bill on top of your co-pay and insurance for the HVLA, ME, or whatever they performed. WTH? Seems about like charging somebody extra for listening to their heart and lungs in my opinion.

Confused ... OMM is a coded, billable procedure; why wouldn't he charge/bill for it? However, are you saying he billed your insurance AND had you pay cash for the exact same OMM treatment? Because this, from what I understand, is illegal.

 

[JapaneseSakura]

Obviously I'm frustrated enough to vent on a public forum, but do you get irritated by those ppl who say they got into a DO school because they couldn't get into a MD school? I mean even if it's true, why the defeatist attitude? They'll say stuff like "DOs weren't smart enough to get into a real medical school (ie MD) so they went DO" or something stupid like that. Another line is "OMM is our punishment for slacking off in college".

Even though these are ppl I am fond of, i'm starting to get irritated by their attitude. What the heck man, if you can't deal w/ being an osteopathic doctor then get the **** out. go cry boo hoo to your mom.

You know it's one thing when some ignorant MD student starts mouthing off, but it's another when a DO student from a DO school starts self-deprecating on his pedigree. I wish I could smack him a bit, but I'm not that confrontational in real life.

Oooh, I hate that! It doesn't matter, we are still doctors regardless. DO is just as challenging and I have a few friends who got accepted to both MD and DO and choose the DO and failed outl

 

[Zarika]

Ok, not to hijack the thread, but I noticed you guys talked about OMM. This is a serious question; I'm not trying to be offensive, I just really don't know and have been wondering since I joined these boards last year.

How is the OMM different from what a chiropractor does (meaning adjustments and what not)? Obviously the DO has actual medical training, and can understand the anatomy and physiology behind what they're doing a whole lot more than a chiro, but the procedures themselves, are they any different?

 

[st2205]

Ok, not to hijack the thread, but I noticed you guys talked about OMM. This is a serious question; I'm not trying to be offensive, I just really don't know and have been wondering since I joined these boards last year.

How is the OMM different from what a chiropractor does (meaning adjustments and what not)? Obviously the DO has actual medical training, and can understand the anatomy and physiology behind what they're doing a whole lot more than a chiro, but the procedures themselves, are they any different?

When people think chiropractic, they typically think spinal manipulation (twisting, bending, then popping). As far as the HVLA is concerened (the popping techniques), they're pretty similar, though I'm not 100% certain on the theories of the chiropractic world with regard to diagnosis and mechanics. DOs learn an array of techniques, of which HVLA is just a portion (though I'm sure very soon there will be a chiropractic apologist or two to emphasize that this holds true for chiropractic, as well). In addition, though DOs spend time on the spine, it's also only a portion since the curriculum also covers all extremities, pelvis, sacrum, ribs, and head. Anyway, these are arguing points and anything a DO says they do, a chiropractor says likewise, and vice versa.

 

[NYDOC112]

Ok, not to hijack the thread, but I noticed you guys talked about OMM. This is a serious question; I'm not trying to be offensive, I just really don't know and have been wondering since I joined these boards last year.

How is the OMM different from what a chiropractor does (meaning adjustments and what not)? Obviously the DO has actual medical training, and can understand the anatomy and physiology behind what they're doing a whole lot more than a chiro, but the procedures themselves, are they any different?

They are different, we also have a lot more techniques we can use ranging from soft tissue techniques to the HVLA techniques, and we can use OMM to treat MSK, articulation, other issues for the entire body (including sympathetic/parasympathetic innervations, lymphatics, circulation, respiration via the diaphragm and sacrum, pelvic dysfunctions, etc etc etc) from the toes to the head, I believe chiros are limited to the spine and do not have as many techniques and focus mostly on joints such as vertebrae. DOs are also trained in diagnosing a lot of somatic dysfunctions etc, and then treating specific osteopathic diagnoses.

 

[Zarika]

They are different, we also have a lot more techniques we can use ranging from soft tissue techniques to the HVLA techniques, and we can use OMM to treat MSK, articulation, other issues for the entire body (including sympathetic/parasympathetic innervations, lymphatics, circulation, respiration via the diaphragm and sacrum, pelvic dysfunctions, etc etc etc) from the toes to the head, I believe chiros are limited to the spine and do not have as many techniques and focus mostly on joints such as vertebrae. DOs are also trained in diagnosing a lot of somatic dysfunctions etc, and then treating specific osteopathic diagnoses.

That makes sense. I'm a first year, so sorry if this is a dumb question, but I thought that was pretty much what people in PM&R do. I've heard of OMM residencies (and rotations in med schools) so is the difference between OMM residencies and PM&R residencies that OMM is mostly procedural and PM&R is some procedural and some medical management?

 

[st2205]

That makes sense. I'm a first year, so sorry if this is a dumb question, but I thought that was pretty much what people in PM&R do. I've heard of OMM residencies (and rotations in med schools) so is the difference between OMM residencies and PM&R residencies that OMM is mostly procedural and PM&R is some procedural and some medical management?

Hopefully one of the PM&R DOs can chime in, but I'll give it a shot.

Residencies in PM&R and OMM (or NMM as it's called in the DO world, though different than allopathic NMM) are two completely different residencies. All PM&R residencies are actually allopathic (I think they've got some in the osteopathic match, but I'm pretty certain that all of those are just dually accredited programs) and all OMM residencies are osteopathic (obviously). OMM is something that can be utilized in PM&R due to the nature of the work (rehabilitation), but not all OMM applies to PM&R and not all PM&R applies to OMM in the traditional sense (stroke, for instance). An allopathic PM&R resident wouldn't learn any OMM. In fact, neither would a DO PM&R resident, it's just that the nature of the work makes it possible for DOs to utilize OMM much as the same way a DO in family practice, sports medicine, or pain management could.

OMM rotations in medical school consist of, generally, a clinic where people come in with somatic complaints that get treated with OMM. A rotation in PM&R would be much different. I won't answer what that's like because I've never done one (not that I've done an OMM rotation, either).

 

[Dharma]

Nash and Wannabe- so this is what you bring to the table on your first posts? Uncool. I reported you both. Enjoy.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Nash and Wannabe- so this is what you bring to the table on your first posts? Uncool. I reported you both. Enjoy.

What are you talking about?

 

[tkim]

What are you talking about?

they got 'sanitized'

 

[nudmamer]

Peoplespeep,

Hats off to you! That was an insightful, well constructed, well thought out statement that shows you wear an unbiased set of spectacles and truly just get it. The ability to look at the objective data and comprehend peoples motives and thought processes better than they themselves can will serve you well in your future career.

Thanks for the input, it was refreshing!

 

[Dharma]

What are you talking about?

The two dweebs who posted before me (who I posted in response to) posted a bunch of smack-talking garbage in their very first postings. I reported them; now they're gone (including their posts).