DO vs MD Residencies and Respective Competitiveness

[tuffguy13]

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I was wondering if anyone could provide any insight on the relative competitiveness of Osteopathic and Allopathic residencies in their respective specialities....

For allopathic residencies, you have a lot more choices in terms of total programs as well as geography, however its hard for most people to get those spots period. I always hear on SDN how if you go DO, you might as well go into an osteopathic residency if you want to match into the ROAD specialties since many allopathic residencies may not give you a chance. I am aware that this discrimination is lessening as time passes and you do occasionally hear of a few DO's making into an allopathic derm residency or something else competitive, so I don't doubt that it can happen.

My question: Is it easier to match into a competitive specialty residency as a DO doing osteopathic residency than an MD doing allopathic residency? DO's have less competition overall as they are only competing with DO's for the osteopathic residency spots. MD's have more places to choose from overall but with more MD's total, the competition becomes more fierce.

Also, I guess this relates to the previous question, but are the competitive residency slots in osteopathic residency very few in number? The AOA website of osteopathic opportunities gives the perception that you can do a lot of different specialties, but you don't get the full picture if it turns out many of those competitive specialties may have an extremely limited number of slots.

Thanks to anyone who can provide help!

 

[McGillGrad]

No matter the letters following your name, you need to be in the top 85%tile+ of USMLE/COMLEX scores to be competitive. That means that your USMLE scores are a far stronger predictor than MD/DO residencies.

In other words, worry about your step scores first. Rotation evaluations and LOR, second. Everything else, third.

 

[Winged Scapula]

This is not a residency issue relevant to residents. Moving to Osteo forum.

 

[BobBarker]

Plenty of DO's go into anesthesiology and radiology at allopathic programs. I don't know anything about opthamology.. The question of whether DO residencies are less competitive than allopathic residencies is very complex. The competition is different. Take OB for instance, I know there are multiple people vying for 1-2 spots at my schools home osteopathic program. Same goes for anesthesia. Sure, they could probably get a spot in Michigan or something, but most people don't want to do that. Make any sense?

 

[Instatewaiter]

My question: Is it easier to match into a competitive specialty residency as a DO doing osteopathic residency than an MD doing allopathic residency? DO's have less competition overall as they are only competing with DO's for the osteopathic residency spots. MD's have more places to choose from overall but with more MD's total, the competition becomes more fierce.

Also, I guess this relates to the previous question, but are the competitive residency slots in osteopathic residency very few in number? The AOA website of osteopathic opportunities gives the perception that you can do a lot of different specialties, but you don't get the full picture if it turns out many of those competitive specialties may have an extremely limited number of slots.

Thanks to anyone who can provide help!

If you want to compare numbers the following link will get you on your way. I am not sure if the AOA produces a similar report but the people who run the MD match put out a report that lists average USMLE scores, publications etc by specialty-
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

In terms of numbers of slots in AOA vs ACGME, ACGME generally dwarfs the AOA in specialty areas. Let's look at anesthesia since it's alphabetically first. The AOA has ~100 total residency spots in only 12 programs. That means there are 33 spots per year in the entire country for the DO match.

For comparison, Brigham and Womens (boston) has more slots than the entire AOA does (106 vs 100). The ACGME programs are generally larger and there are a lot more of them (>130 programs in anesthesia).

There are disproportionately few AOA residency programs in the specialties, so if you want to do FP this may not be the case. There are roughly 3-4x as many MD students yet there are 56x more anesthesia spots in ACGME vs AOA. Overall, the ACGME programs are generally in better locations as well and they tend to be in large, metropolitan cities.

Search AOA programs with this: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/index.cfm

Search ACGME programs with this: http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/


Note: anesthesia is not as competitive as it once was. Their average board scores are lower than Internal Medicine's.

 

[McGillGrad]

Note: anesthesia is not as competitive as it once was. Their average board scores are lower than Internal Medicine's.

You can thank CRNA's for that.

 

[dannyboy1]

Note: anesthesia is not as competitive as it once was. Their average board scores are lower than Internal Medicine's.

That statistic is a little misleading. It probably reflects the number of academic superstars who are gunning for GI/cards and therefore the board scores are higher for IM. It is certainly easier to get an internal medicine spot than it is to get anesthesia.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I was using medicine as a middle of the road competitive program to compare. I dont think too many people would put medicine in the highly competitive category but many would put anesthesia there. True it may be harder to get any gas vs any medicine, but clearly based on averages anesthesia doesn't belong among the Rads, Derms, and orthos of the world.

 

[kazuma]

Note: anesthesia is not as competitive as it once was. Their average board scores are lower than Internal Medicine's.

While this was true in the past, anesthesia has become ridiculously competitive both AOA and ACGME this year from those I have talked to on the interview trail. From what my 4th year friends have been told from programs is that the average score for candidates invited for interviews at ACGME is ~230 and ~600+ for AOA. Students I know that have lower scores than that have received significantly fewer interview invites.

This seems to follow the latest trend in charting outcomes data as well. The 2007 data showed a 220 step 1 score for matched anesthesia students and 2009 showed a 225 step 1 score. This year ~230? Next year ~235? Who knows.....

Sure these aren't Derm, Rads or Ortho numbers, but it's definitely more competitive now than in years past.

 

[Instatewaiter]

While this was true in the past, anesthesia has become ridiculously competitive both AOA and ACGME this year from those I have talked to on the interview trail. From what my 4th year friends have been told from programs is that the average score for candidates invited for interviews at ACGME is ~230 and ~600+ for AOA. Students I know that have lower scores than that have received significantly fewer interview invites.

This seems to follow the latest trend in charting outcomes data as well. The 2007 data showed a 220 step 1 score for matched anesthesia students and 2009 showed a 225 step 1 score. This year ~230? Next year ~235? Who knows.....

Sure these aren't Derm, Rads or Ortho numbers, but it's definitely more competitive now than in years past.

All applicants always say their specialty is becoming "ridiculously competitive" compared to the year before. This year it may hold some water but for every specialty. There are many more applicants than there ever have been before because of med school expansion.

You need to look at the other specialties in charting outcomes. Yeah, all scores are going up and all more than anesthesia's. Here is the data. First number is 2006 the second is 2009.

Derm 230 --> 242 (12 point change)
EM 217--> 221 (4 points)
FM 195-->213 (8 points)
Gen surg 210 --> 224 (14 points)
MEdicine 215 --> 226 (11 point change)
PEds- 205 --> 211 (6 point change)
OB 205--> 220 (15 point change)
Ortho 219 --> 239 (20 point change)
Path 219--> 228 (9 points)
Plastics 230-- > 247 (17 point change)
Rad onc 227-239 (12 point change
Transitional year 227-237 (10 point change)

Anesthesia- 220--> 224 (4 point change)

Note that literally everything except EM had a much larger increase in scores than anesthesia.

 

[Zercolops]

Just so I'm clear.. If I am in DO medical school and want to pursue Anesthesiology it would be in my best interest to take both the COMLEX Step 1 and USMLE Step 1 based on the proportionately greater number of spots in allopathic programs?

 

[Colbert]

Just so I'm clear.. If I am in DO medical school and want to pursue Anesthesiology it would be in my best interest to take both the COMLEX Step 1 and USMLE Step 1 based on the proportionately greater number of spots in allopathic programs?

Honestly it's in your best interest to take the USMLE even if you're just considering anesthesiology. So many programs require it and even if they don't they'll wonder why you didn't take it. If you're definitely planning to apply DO then COMLEX is fine.

Almost everyone in my class that is applying to anesthesiology is applying to both DO and MD spots. If you think about it, there are 33 spots each year in the DO match. That works out to about 1 spot per school. I can think of about 10 people in my school alone that want to go into anesthesiology.

I tend to speak bluntly, but if you want to go to an MD program that has an average board score of 220, you'll need 225 as a DO (and yes I realize that this is an incredibly gross over simplification and generalization, I'm just making a point). As a DO applying to an MD residency, you will need to be slightly better than the other MD applicants.

You're class of 2015? Focus on learning as much as humanly possible and knock Step 1 out of the park. That should be your primary focus right now. You'll want to keep as many doors open as possible and there is no better way than proving you can hang.

 

[Zercolops]

Honestly it's in your best interest to take the USMLE even if you're just considering anesthesiology. So many programs require it and even if they don't they'll wonder why you didn't take it. If you're definitely planning to apply DO then COMLEX is fine.

Almost everyone in my class that is applying to anesthesiology is applying to both DO and MD spots. If you think about it, there are 33 spots each year in the DO match. That works out to about 1 spot per school. I can think of about 10 people in my school alone that want to go into anesthesiology.

I tend to speak bluntly, but if you want to go to an MD program that has an average board score of 220, you'll need 225 as a DO (and yes I realize that this is an incredibly gross over simplification and generalization, I'm just making a point). As a DO applying to an MD residency, you will need to be slightly better than the other MD applicants.

You're class of 2015? Focus on learning as much as humanly possible and knock Step 1 out of the park. That should be your primary focus right now. You'll want to keep as many doors open as possible and there is no better way than proving you can hang.

Man you knocked it out of the park. Thanks for the detailed response and the advice. I will take it heart. I'm definitely not trying to close any doors before I even start school so thanks again.

 

[protamine]

Average student here planning on applying to IM Allopathic residency programs.
Board scores are as follows: Comlex I 530, USMLE step 1 199
USMLE Step 2 214 and Comlex step 2 still waiting on results.
What are my chances of getting an Allopathic IM? would I be making a big mistake if I didn't apply for the DO match?

Would appreciate any thoughts anyone could offer.