DO who have done USMLE- what would u have done differently?

[H0mersimps0n]

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I want to do COMLEX and USMLE but want to do well. I don't want to take the COMLEX then take the USMLE two days later and be so exhausted I don't even care how well I do.

What is the most typical course of action for DO students taking the USMLE? Do most just bite the bullet and take both back to back or has anyone ever taken it a few months (or years) later?

I've heard stories about DO students going back and taking USMLE step 1 and 2 back to back because they changed their mind late in the game.

Tips, hints, anecdotes are welcome...

thanks

 

[Doc Oc]

Hi Homer,

I was looking for a thread like this a couple months ago hoping to read some anecdotal experiences and didn't find any that were helpful. All I found were DO students in the "score report" threads, and all of them seemed to have done exceptionally well on both tests. So I'm going to tell you my experience, but of course pull out the usual grain of salt when reading this, and hopefully others will comment and this thread will be helpful to you and others in the future.

I took the USMLE one week before I took the COMLEX. I am generally a good exam-taker, and felt ready for the exam. My reasons for taking it were based on curiosity about what MD students are tested on, hearsay about its necessity in my residency applications depending on what I wanted to do, and my undecided status with regards to future residency selection.

So here's the part where I get sheepish: I caught a stupid cold two days before the exam. Initially, I didn't think this was a big deal. I've taken tests while sick before and have always come through just fine. However, I show up to the testing site, and am informed that I cannot bring Kleenex, cough drops, or my inhaler into the room with me. I managed to talk the guy into letting me bring in one Kleenex, which he inspected, and one cough drop, which he only allowed after inspection and if unwrapped. We've all had the bad colds before, and I think everyone knows that these supplies are insufficient for an 8 hour period. Consequently, I was rushed and uncomfortable, and really, learned that I need to recognize when enough's enough and just take a sick day once in a while.

I did pass, but my score is pretty bad (205/83). Now who knows - maybe I would have done this poorly anyway. I don't like making excuses, but I do think that the snot on the upper lip and constant throat tickle didn't help.

I took the COMLEX one week later, and did the complete opposite (629/93).

So time comes to apply for residency, and I decided on allopathic internal medicine residency programs. So what do I do? I talked with my advisor and decided to make my initial application with only my COMLEX scores. I didn't fill in my USMLE ID on the ERAS application. I will carry a copy of my scores, and will produce them if asked. If I am not getting interview invites, then I will also submit my USMLE scores via ERAS. I decided to wait until the Dean's letter is released, and release my scores to places that I didn't get interview invites from. If they aren't going to invite me anyway without them, what can it hurt?

So that was my plan. 14/19 places that I applied to "required" USMLE scores on their websites. (Notable exceptions were Colorado and U-Wash, also Spokane, Beaumont, and one other place). As of right now, I have 8 interviews scheduled, only one of them was a place that specifically stated on their website that they accept COMLEX instead.

So it's working out ok. Looks like I might not need USMLE scores to get the residency that I want. But I have to say, in hindsight, I wish that I had made a more informed decision before taking the test. Since I didn't know what I wanted to do, calling programs to find out their requirements wasn't exactly an option. The advisors at my school told us we didn't need them, that they would be "used by programs that don't want DOs to discriminate against us". My opinion on that differs, so it was hard to put alot of stock in the advice we got in that lecture.

Maybe this situation doesn't happen to alot of people. I'm not really a "score-sharer" though, so I don't ask how other people did and thus don't have other anecdotal info. I just know I wish I hadn't taken it at all, because I feel this pit in my stomach about not making my score part of my application. If I was an MD student, sick or not, I wouldn't have this option. It seems unfair to me.

Anyway, that's what I did.

As for being tired, I felt great one week later and after that experience, the COMLEX was a nice relief. I had the opportunity to review between, but not lose my initial "peak", and I had the summer off from studying for big exams.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Doc OC, first I want to thank you for your time and response, I know time is a hard thing to come by for all of us and I really appreciate it. Secondly, good luck in your residency application process.

My situation is a little different from yours. I, to my dismay, am not a good test taker at all. My finacee is currently a first year MD student in Baltimore (so a year behind me), and we were thinking Baltimore would be our #1 to couples match in. Turns out Baltimore hospitals are not DO-friendly and seem to be steadfast to their USMLE requirements. Because I'm a year ahead of her I plan on TRYING to do a internship in York or something close to fulfill that GD requirement and put my fiancee and me on the same page timeline wise.

We like the east coast and have considered cities such as Boston, Philly (yuck PA), Baltimore and DC. Atlanta is too hot for us and NYC is too big and expensive...

SO, I guess my options are beat my head in trying to get a decent score on the USMLE and fight my way into Baltmore or find another MD/DO friendly city to do a NBOME/AOA couples match (I saw that might be ready by 2008).

I don't know what to do. Right now it looks like there's an 80% chance I'm going to do the USMLE regardless but the question still remains- when do I take it? Being that I'm such a bad test taker should I take it a month or two after the comlex and just study really hard for it during my IM rotations (3 months of IM following the Comlex)....

damn, I just don't know. The only thing I do know is that I want to do IM (for hopeful cardio fellow) and be geographically as close to my finacee as humanly possible <sigh>

 

[DrSmiles]

I think that most people would agree with me on that you should take the USMLE within 1-2 weeks of the COMLEX. You are at your best during this time period and the longer you wait, thinking that you will study even more, the more focus you lose. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can focus on the USMLE during IM rotations. Being a new 3rd year, I am so thankful I don't need to retake any board exams because I am so exhausted when I get home everyday. If you consider yourself to be a poor test taker, then definitely take both board exams closer together because you will be doing lots and lots of practice questions prior to the COMLEX. I would suggest the kaplan Qbank for USMLE as well. Don't bother with the COMLEX Qbank unless you are weak in OMM. And the number one thing you should be doing if you are a poor test taker is questions. Make a schedule before exams and stick with it.

 

[PACtoDOC]

My advice would be to take the USMLE about 4-5 days after your COMLEX. I took COMLEX on Tues/Wed of one week and then took USMLE the next Monday. My COMLEX was 99%ile but my USMLE was only a 232/94. But I was happy. I used the days in between to sip cocktails and read Lippincott's biochem, which if I had actually read the entire book, my guess is I would have been in the 250 range. I just was so burned out that I did not want to study all that biochem and molecular bio. But that is what truly separates the two exams. So you DO NOT want to take USMLE first and waste any neurons to study molecular bio and biochem because NONE of that mess is on COMLEX. USMLE and COMLEX are both very heavy on the big 3 things, being path/micro/pharm. Use the additional few days to study for the USMLE, but don't wait more than a week or you will start to forget the big 3 things.

 

[Idiopathic]

Ive said this before, but...

Study everything for COMLEX.
Test on COMLEX day.
Decompress for 2-3 days after.

Start studying USMLE-specific subjects:
1) Biochem.
2) Genetics/molecular bio.
3) Ethics/biostats.
4) Embryology.

Review:
1) Pharm
2) Path
3) Physio

Take the NBME assessment exams.

It took me 17 days to days to complete this, and I am happy with my scores. I highly recommend taking extra time between the two tests to flush the OMM, superficial anatomy and other weirdness. Review pharm and path as if your life depended on it, and put enough time into the USMLE. Many people get done with COMLEX and just feel so worn down that they dont do any USMLE-specific studying. If the USMLE is important enough to you to spend the $400 on, then it is important enough to take the extra time to study for. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Idiopathic]

path/micro/pharm

No more than three micro questions on USMLE, while COMLEX was at least 15% micro.

 

[MasterintuBater]

Don't underestimate how many programs will actually accept COMLEX scores in place of USMLE scores. Even though their website may specifically say that they require USMLE scores, they will also accept COMLEX. This has been the case with all my applications for residencies. I have applied to 32 MD programs, all requiring "USMLE". I reported my COMLEX scores only and have received 10 interviews. I wasted my time taking USMLE I and never bothered taking USMLE II. I understand that in certain programs it is certainly a good idea to take USMLE but for many programs, it may be worth a phone call to talk to someone in person to find out how they feel about comlex scores. It may be worth $400 and an 8 hour test to find out first.

 

[PACtoDOC]

No more than three micro questions on USMLE, while COMLEX was at least 15% micro.

That is simply not possible Idio!!! Micro was in virtually half of all path questions because you had to be able to choose the organism in order to choose the drug, or disease, etc.... micro was all over the place!! I agree though that COMLEX had a lot more.

 

[Idiopathic]

Sorry, not on mine. Pharmacology for bugs was fairly straightforward for me, and there was maybe one identify the virus (double-stranded, etc) and one or two identify the bug. I dont consider knowing pharm for bugs as being micro though. Pure micro was barely a player.

 

[joshua_msu]

Don't underestimate how many programs will actually accept COMLEX scores in place of USMLE scores. Even though their website may specifically say that they require USMLE scores, they will also accept COMLEX. This has been the case with all my applications for residencies. I have applied to 32 MD programs, all requiring "USMLE". I reported my COMLEX scores only and have received 10 interviews. I wasted my time taking USMLE I and never bothered taking USMLE II. I understand that in certain programs it is certainly a good idea to take USMLE but for many programs, it may be worth a phone call to talk to someone in person to find out how they feel about comlex scores. It may be worth $400 and an 8 hour test to find out first.

Lets say that you take both exams. You do really well on the COMLEX and soso or worse on the USMLE. Do you have to report that USMLE score to those MD programs in which you apply to?

 

[MasterintuBater]

Lets say that you take both exams. You do really well on the COMLEX and soso or worse on the USMLE. Do you have to report that USMLE score to those MD programs in which you apply to?

I took both COMLEX I and USMLE I and did slightly better on COMLEX. I reported only my COMLEX score to residency programs (they'll never know you took USMLE unless you tell them) and I have had no problems. It's not a BAD idea to take USMLE. I am by NO means saying that it is a waste of time. My point was only that you should check with a program first if you are going to take USMLE only because you are concerned that they won't accept complex.

 

[Idiopathic]

they'll never know you took USMLE unless you tell them

The new application service for osteopaths may be linked with ERAS, and this app has spots for both USMLE and COMLEX score reporting. Its possible that no program would know whether or not you took USMLE, but its also possible that the program would know and would doubt your sincerity if you didnt include it. Also, if asked, I would be honest about it. I do not recommend taking USMLE with the intention of withholding the score should it not be satisfactory.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Thanks for the tips, advice and experiences everyone.

I'm going to aim for about 10ish days after the COMLEX to give it a try. Most of the cities I mentioned in my first post are big and have many MD schools in or around them. In looking on the FRIEDA search engine I discovered many of them take USMLE only. Baltimore, the city I'm trying to "infiltrate", hospitals are so DO-unfriendly that when I call around trying to see if anyone will take me for a rotation here or there I find out most hospitals either don't take students (so I guess in general) until 4th year and only on electives OR most of the UMD associated hospitals don't take ANY outside medical student from a school that's not ACME accredited (which is an MD-only accreditation).

I know DO's weren't put on this earth for urban medicine but I'm going to try and break through anyway...

P.S. I don't plan on reporting my USMLE scores and will keep a "don't ask don't tell" policy about the whole thing unless, obviously the scores are necessary. Lots of things change in 3 years and even though these hospitals may change their tune (or the bureaucracy may be totally different) better to be safe (and broke) than sorry (and SOL)...

 

[Doc Oc]

Thanks for the tips, advice and experiences everyone.

I'm going to aim for about 10ish days after the COMLEX to give it a try. Most of the cities I mentioned in my first post are big and have many MD schools in or around them. In looking on the FRIEDA search engine I discovered many of them take USMLE only. Baltimore, the city I'm trying to "infiltrate", hospitals are so DO-unfriendly that when I call around trying to see if anyone will take me for a rotation here or there I find out most hospitals either don't take students (so I guess in general) until 4th year and only on electives OR most of the UMD associated hospitals don't take ANY outside medical student from a school that's not ACME accredited (which is an MD-only accreditation).

I know DO's weren't put on this earth for urban medicine but I'm going to try and break through anyway...

P.S. I don't plan on reporting my USMLE scores and will keep a "don't ask don't tell" policy about the whole thing unless, obviously the scores are necessary. Lots of things change in 3 years and even though these hospitals may change their tune (or the bureaucracy may be totally different) better to be safe (and broke) than sorry (and SOL)...

Alot of hospitals don't take MD or DO students other than their own until 4th year and until their students have chosen all of their 4th year electives. I had one hospital that I requested a rotation at write me back saying that they only accepted students from "LCME accredited" medical schools. I wrote them nack and asked who I had to speak with to find out why. I ended up being given a rotation at the hospital. Same thing with a classmate of mine, who was told flat-out by Dartmouth that they don't want any D.O.s She had a connection there, and ended up getting a rotation there. So if there's a place you really want to go, don't accept that first "no".

 

[Docgeorge]

Maby the secratery you talked to at Darthmouth had a grudge or something. Their Ortho PD is a DO and Old Man Dave is a gas resident there. Maby they just dont take them for 3rd year.

 

[Docgeorge]

One more question for you guys. When I tried to register for USMLE I could'nt find my school on the list, or any osteopathic school do I need a letter form somebody to register?

 

[Idiopathic]

The big contradiction is thet several schools dont take non-LCME students for credit rotations (i.e. you can do a 'hands-off' elective with no credit), BUT these schools will often have DO's in the residency program and even some on the staff. It simply has to do with their charter/accreditation.

My school was listed when I applied for USMLE...check some other name that it may be listed under.

 

[nub]

Baltimore is not that DO unfriendly. I know at least one person from my school matched there in IM and anesthesia. Check this link:

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/education/tcom/Residencyopps.cfm

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Thanks for the reply nub. We had a person or two from LECOM match at University of Maryland but unfortunately it was psychology and not IM (what I would try and match for). I'm exploring other alternatives too...

 

[joshua_msu]

Getting down to the wire here. How did you guys schedule the two?

 

[Idiopathic]

About three weeks apart. COMLEX first.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

USMLE 6/1/05
COMLEX 6/7-8/05


one week apart, good enough for me- get this SH#)($ over with

Wish me luck

 

[smgilles]

Getting down to the wire here. How did you guys schedule the two?

Took the USMLE on May 23rd...done and over. NBME says 600 (~240) lets hope the USMLE agrees.

Take the COMLEX sametime as the rest!

 

[Beck928]

Hi Homer,

I was looking for a thread like this a couple months ago hoping to read some anecdotal experiences and didn't find any that were helpful. All I found were DO students in the "score report" threads, and all of them seemed to have done exceptionally well on both tests. So I'm going to tell you my experience, but of course pull out the usual grain of salt when reading this, and hopefully others will comment and this thread will be helpful to you and others in the future.

I took the USMLE one week before I took the COMLEX. I am generally a good exam-taker, and felt ready for the exam. My reasons for taking it were based on curiosity about what MD students are tested on, hearsay about its necessity in my residency applications depending on what I wanted to do, and my undecided status with regards to future residency selection.

So here's the part where I get sheepish: I caught a stupid cold two days before the exam. Initially, I didn't think this was a big deal. I've taken tests while sick before and have always come through just fine. However, I show up to the testing site, and am informed that I cannot bring Kleenex, cough drops, or my inhaler into the room with me. I managed to talk the guy into letting me bring in one Kleenex, which he inspected, and one cough drop, which he only allowed after inspection and if unwrapped. We've all had the bad colds before, and I think everyone knows that these supplies are insufficient for an 8 hour period. Consequently, I was rushed and uncomfortable, and really, learned that I need to recognize when enough's enough and just take a sick day once in a while.

I did pass, but my score is pretty bad (205/83). Now who knows - maybe I would have done this poorly anyway. I don't like making excuses, but I do think that the snot on the upper lip and constant throat tickle didn't help.

I took the COMLEX one week later, and did the complete opposite (629/93).

So time comes to apply for residency, and I decided on allopathic internal medicine residency programs. So what do I do? I talked with my advisor and decided to make my initial application with only my COMLEX scores. I didn't fill in my USMLE ID on the ERAS application. I will carry a copy of my scores, and will produce them if asked. If I am not getting interview invites, then I will also submit my USMLE scores via ERAS. I decided to wait until the Dean's letter is released, and release my scores to places that I didn't get interview invites from. If they aren't going to invite me anyway without them, what can it hurt?

So that was my plan. 14/19 places that I applied to "required" USMLE scores on their websites. (Notable exceptions were Colorado and U-Wash, also Spokane, Beaumont, and one other place). As of right now, I have 8 interviews scheduled, only one of them was a place that specifically stated on their website that they accept COMLEX instead.

So it's working out ok. Looks like I might not need USMLE scores to get the residency that I want. But I have to say, in hindsight, I wish that I had made a more informed decision before taking the test. Since I didn't know what I wanted to do, calling programs to find out their requirements wasn't exactly an option. The advisors at my school told us we didn't need them, that they would be "used by programs that don't want DOs to discriminate against us". My opinion on that differs, so it was hard to put alot of stock in the advice we got in that lecture.

Maybe this situation doesn't happen to alot of people. I'm not really a "score-sharer" though, so I don't ask how other people did and thus don't have other anecdotal info. I just know I wish I hadn't taken it at all, because I feel this pit in my stomach about not making my score part of my application. If I was an MD student, sick or not, I wouldn't have this option. It seems unfair to me.

Anyway, that's what I did.

As for being tired, I felt great one week later and after that experience, the COMLEX was a nice relief. I had the opportunity to review between, but not lose my initial "peak", and I had the summer off from studying for big exams.

My experience was similar to this, I overslept on the morning of USMLE (taken about 10 days after COMLEX) and felt rushed and anxious, not typical for me. Scores were crappy, but much better on COMLEX. Now I'm trying to decide whether to release USMLE. I'm not taking it for Step 2 just due to cost reasons. I have been told by program directors I've spoken to that my scores are OK, but I'm worried that the USMLE will decrease my chances of getting interviews in a pretty competitive specialty (gas). Any other thoughts?

 

[cremaster2007]

I took the USMLE a little more than a week after comlex, and I thought that was about perfect. I took two days off to relax. Then I studied only the first aid book and step up. I hit biochem and molecular fairly hard. I had way more ethical/molecular/biostat questions than pharm and micro I thought. The anatomy was all very simple and straight forward. I would say over all I thought the USMLE went better than COMLEX, mostly because it was only one day🙂 But good luck to everyone else taking it, nothing like taking roughlly 1200 questions and 24 hours to go out into clinics and get yelled at for not knowing "clinical" stuff 👍