Do you need to be in newborns life early on?

[Merely]

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I have a pt who is a high powered attorney. Works about 70 hrs a week. He has a newborn boy and has a lovely wife who he says takes very good care of the baby. He is asking me if him being absent so much from the babies life from 0-5 years of age really will make a difference at all for the baby in any detrimental way. He plans on working very hard for the next 5 years then setting down when the baby turns 5 so he can form a very good relationship with his son. I thought that was interesting but wanted to ask if you guys had any insights on whether that would be bad at all since the baby still has a very caring mom and it seems babies at that age don’t even know if their dad is around they just need to develop properly with some attachment figure and one caring mom might be enough until age of 5. Interested in your insights. Thanks.

 

[erg923]

Husband of the year right there.

I think he is asking the wrong question.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

I have a pt who is a high powered attorney. Works about 70 hrs a week. He has a newborn boy and has a lovely wife who he says takes very good care of the baby. He is asking me if him being absent so much from the babies life from 0-5 years of age really will make a difference at all for the baby in any detrimental way. He plans on working very hard for the next 5 years then setting down when the baby turns 5 so he can form a very good relationship with his son. I thought that was interesting but wanted to ask if you guys had any insights on whether that would be bad at all since the baby still has a very caring mom and it seems babies at that age don’t even know if their dad is around they just need to develop properly with some attachment figure and one caring mom might be enough until age of 5. Interested in your insights. Thanks.

I would want to know what he plans to do to nurture his relationship with his wife during this period of time. I understand his concern for the baby, but early parenthood is a very stressful time for couples even when both partners are available and supportive. It may not be as easy to reintegrate into the family after 5 years of emotional neglect as he thinks. How does he anticipate handling that?

 

[PsyDr]

well, it screws up parental attachment styles. Quality of paternal relationships in childhood is associated with higher degrees of trait anxiety in adulthood,. and some political preferences, and lowered life satisfaction in old age, and lowered enjoyment of leisure pursuits in adulthood. By age 6, the longitudinal literature shows such parental (not paternal) behaviors are associated with increased hazard ratios of the child developing a personality disorder.

Then there's some indication of lowered academic achievement, but that's likely a confound.

With daughters, there's also some data showing association with promiscuity.

 

[Merely]

I would want to know what he plans to do to nurture his relationship with his wife during this period of time. I understand his concern for the baby, but early parenthood is a very stressful time for couples even when both partners are available and supportive. It may not be as easy to reintegrate into the family after 5 years of emotional neglect as he thinks. How does he anticipate handling that?

He says the mom is fine with it because she has a lot of social support from both of their families. His goal is to make enough money during this time to set them up so he can be there moving forward after the kid is 5

 

[PsyDr]

I would be very careful to avoid being sucked into a collusion where you are supposed to just support his plan.

 

[erg923]

He says the mom is fine with it because she has a lot of social support from both of their families. His goal is to make enough money during this time to set them up so he can be there moving forward after the kid is 5

I guess I'm lost here. Even when home, on weekends, holidays/vacations, he doesn't want to spend anytime with his child until the child is 5? Who does that? lol

I think there is a difference between being very busy and just seeing your child for only a couple hours each day (especially during the week) vs saying, "I'd rather pretend I dont have a kid for 5 years...ill just show up when he's 5"...which is how you are making it sound.

Is this belief/attitude consistent with the psychopathology you are presumably treating him for? I think you should be the ones asking questions here. Aren't you wondering why he doesn't want to bond with his child? Arent you wondering why he thinks he can not see his wife for 5 years and still keep his marriage? Or, maybe he wants to see his wife but not the child? Regardless, its quite bizarre if you ask me.

 

[temppsych123]

Oh jeez...kids won't remember what happens in the first couple years of their lives, but they're still forming attachments! A dad who's awol from 0-5 and then shows up trying to be super involved at age 5...I can't imagine the 5-year-old being very into that. Also very curious about the pt's wife/baby's mom in all this - how does she feel about this plan?!

Here's a couple review/overview articles about the role of fathers in parenting and childhood development:

Fathers’ Roles in the Care and Development of Their Children: The Role of Pediatricians

Fathers’ involvement in and influence on the health and development of their children have increased in a myriad of ways in the past 10 years and have been widely studied. The role of pediatricians in working with fathers has correspondingly increased in importance. This report reviews new...

pediatrics.aappublications.org

Fathers' behaviors and children's psychopathology - PubMed

The psychological literature on how fathers' behaviors may be related to children's psychopathology has grown substantially in the last three decades. This growth is the result of research asking the following three overarching questions: (1) what is the association between family structure, and...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also, more generally - no therapist can answer a question like that for a patient. There's no way to know, with any certainty, whether his absence in the early years of his child's life will be iatrogenic to the child (or his wife/child's mom). There's so much variability across families and across children, we certainly can't say anything like, oh yeah, totally fine to ignore your kid for the first five years...

 

[temppsych123]

Whoops, took too long looking up those references and you answered my question about the mom...even with family support, I can't imagine that there's not going to be some type of conflict/frustration between both parents if he's never involved, even when he's physically around the kid.

 

[Merely]

I guess I'm lost here. Even when home, on weekends, holidays/vacations, he doesn't want to spend anytime with his child until the child is 5? Who does that? lol

I think there is a difference between being very busy and just seeing your child for only a couple hours each day (especially during the week) vs saying, "I'd rather pretend I dont have a kid for 5 years...ill just show up when he's 5"...which is how you are making it sound.

Is this belief/attitude consistent with the psychopathology you are presumably treating him for? I think you should be the ones asking questions here. Aren't you wondering why he doesn't want to bond with his child? Arent you wondering why he thinks he can not see his wife for 5 years and still keep his marriage? Or, maybe he wants to see his wife but not the child? Regardless, its quite bizarre if you ask me.

I think we have a misunderstanding. He is interpreting spending an hour at night with a child and wife as being an absentee father. He works 6 days a week. He is not suggesting what you interpreted it as lol that would be very bizarre and a different convo. He thinks he should be spending much more time with his kid than an hour at night and 1 day a week (Sunday). He feels guilty about that.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I think we have a misunderstanding. He is interpreting spending an hour at night with a child and wife as being an absentee father. He works 6 days a week. He is not suggesting what you interpreted it as lol that would be very bizarre and a different convo. He thinks he should be spending much more time with his kid than an hour at night and 1 day a week (Sunday). He feels guilty about that.

I don’t know the research on the effects on the child, so can’t comment. I do know, form personal experience, that he will miss out on a lot really cool and amazing stuff! I switched my schedule when my daughter was born so that I could work 4 days per week so I could be home more. My Friday’s with my baby are some of the fondest memories I have. I could not imagine just an hour a day with my baby.

Also, speaking as someone who lost my dad when I was 5, you just can’t plan on having that time later.

 

[PsyDr]

I don’t know the research on the effects on the child, so can’t comment. I do know, form personal experience, that he will miss out on a lot really cool and amazing stuff! I switched my schedule when my daughter was born so that I could work 4 days per week so I could be home more. My Friday’s with my baby are some of the fondest memories I have. I could not imagine just an hour a day with my baby.

Also, speaking as someone who lost my dad when I was 5, you just can’t plan on having that time later.

That sounds a lot more like shame than guilt.

 

[deleted343839]

He plans on working very hard for the next 5 years then setting down when the baby turns 5 so he can form a very good relationship with his son.

Setting aside the effect on the child and family, the likelihood of such an abrupt shift even happening seems pretty remote.

 

[DokterMom]

The disconnecting first part is easy. The reconnecting later part is much, much harder...

There are things he can do to maximize the quality of time he spends with his very young child - rituals like bath time or story time and Sundays at the park. Many intense-career parents also arrange for 'protected time' with the kids and men are actually rewarded for it. (Women not so much.) It's not just the relationship with his child the guy has to worry about, but also his marriage.

 

[PsyDr]

The disconnecting first part is easy. The reconnecting later part is much, much harder...

There are things he can do to maximize the quality of time he spends with his very young child - rituals like bath time or story time and Sundays at the park. Many intense-career parents also arrange for 'protected time' with the kids and men are actually rewarded for it. (Women not so much.) It's not just the relationship with his child the guy has to worry about, but also his marriage.

Any evidence base for any of this?

 

[DynamicDidactic]

There isn't a life-hack to parenting, what you put in is what you get out.

More importantly, there does seem to be some major misunderstanding about early childhood.

since the baby still has a very caring mom and it seems babies at that age don’t even know if their dad is around they just need to develop properly with some attachment figure and one caring mom might be enough until age of 5. Interested in your insights. Thanks.

I'd argue, theoretically, a single attachment figure is too few and two is barely better. Evolutionary, we developed with numerous attachment figures - a whole tribe's worth. Despite evidence to the contrary, there is a persistent belief that a loving mother is all a child needs. I'd argue that the adage it takes a village is much more accurate. Children are designed with a great deal of plasticity and I am sure a child can span the gamut of outcomes with a partially absentee dad. But the empirical evidence is pretty clear, the average individual is more likely to achieve better outcomes with more close caregivers.

I would weigh the factors that would be most beneficial for all parties involved, making a few more $ a year or being part of the good and difficult times in those early years. For some people in this world they need to be working to provide shelter and food for a child. I am not sure if that is the case in this situation.

 

[PsySeeker]

Interesting question, so far as it’s board bait. OP, where are you at in your clinical training/career? There appears to me that there should be very little mystery in your overarching question would absenteeism and way overworking (and all that’s associated with it) “effect the baby/relationship in any detrimental way?” Of course? I suspect he must be very persuasive/smooth.