Do you see my problem?

[Gregor Wiesmann]

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I am currently deciding whether to go to Dental school or Medical school. My heart was solely set on pursuing Medicine until I learned about the whole concept of "matching" into a specialty, and unfortunately, the only medical specialties I'm interested in happen to be highly competitive(Ophthalmology, Radiology). I would absolutely not be happy with being a Family Practice or Internal Medicine doctor, so I'm scared that if I went to Medical school and didn't score well enough on USMLE Step 1, then I wouldn't be able to practice in the area of Medicine I wanted. However, for Dentistry, I would be completely happy being a doing general practice at a private practice, but I would still have the option of doing something more surgical like Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery if I was competitive enough. What I'm basically saying is that I have no idea how competitive I will be for residency matching, so I have been telling myself that I should go with Dentistry because I have the safety net of enjoying my work as a GP. But deep down, I still think that being an Ophthalmologist would be more personally fulfilling for me. Hence, I am left not knowing what to do at all........


I just want to know how you guys dealt with the whole Med vs. Dent thing. I really need some advice from people who have been through this situation.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Radiology isn't really that competitive.

Also, didn't you just make a thread about how dentistry was so much better than medicine?

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Radiology isn't really that competitive.

Also, didn't you just make a thread about how dentistry was so much better than medicine?

Yes, I did, and I stand by everything I said in the post and encourage others to read it. However, I also addressed the same problem of residency matching in that post, and that to be one of the nice things about dentistry; no residency required. I stated in that post the five reasons that I am leaning towards dentistry, and in this post, I just mentioned one of those reason and asked for advice from people who went through my same situation. And Radiology is competitive.......it just depends on what you want to compare it to. Not as competitive as Orthopedic surgery, but certainly more competitive than say Emergency Medicine.

Oh, for anyone who is interested and hasn't read it yet, here's my 5 Reasons For Choosing Dentistry post. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/5-reasons-for-choosing-dentistry.1075055/

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Nothing wrong with gunning for ROAD in medicine. Just know that those specialties are getting crosshaired by CMMS and that FM, IM, Psych -the "lesser desired" fields - are on the come up. It sounds like you should do more shadowing since your stated desired specialties are all quite different from each other.

Are my interests really that different? All three of my interests have a common aspect of a relatively good life to work ratio. Also, Dentists and Ophthalmologists are both specialized surgeons, both have office-based practices, and both mostly deal with healthy patients. Radiology you don't preform any surgery, but you do get to do some procedures depending on what kind of Radiologist you become. Basically, I don't like sick people........and I know that probably doesn't sound too good for Medicine, but I'm more interested in the specialized surgical aspects that both Ophthalmologists and Dentists deal with.

Oh, and excuse my ignorance, but can you elaborate on what you mean by the ROAD Specialties being "crosshaired by CMMS"?

 

[FlyingSky]

Why ophthalmology and not any other specialties within surgery?

I think that general/family physicians and dentists have a lot in common

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Why ophthalmology and not any other specialties within surgery?

I think that general/family physicians and dentists have a lot in common

Because I love eyes, and I really like the idea of being able to restore proper vision, which I view as the single most important human sense. Cataract surgery is fascinating! I was interested in Orthopedic surgery too because I'm athletic, but I soon realized that they worked too much. I want a "lifestyle" specialty because I have so many other passions in life. And for the Family Physician argument, the major difference for me is that in Dentistry, you actually get to physically fix the problem through minor surgery instead of just prescribing pills.

 

[kenny878]

ROAD =
Radiology
Ophthalmology
Anesthesiology
Dermatology
(Excuse any spelling errors)
All highly competitive specialties that one might classify as "lifestyle".

I hear ya on the scary idea of matching with an undesired residency.
I decided that Ophthalmology was the only field of medicine that interested me so i explored Dent instead. Turns out Dentistry is where i belong anyway

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

ROAD =
Radiology
Ophthalmology
Anesthesiology
Dermatology
(Excuse any spelling errors)
All highly competitive specialties that one might classify as "lifestyle".

I hear ya on the scary idea of matching with an undesired residency.
I decided that Ophthalmology was the only field of medicine that interested me so i explored Dent instead. Turns out Dentistry is where i belong anyway

Yeah, I'm not interested in Anesthesiology or Dermatology though.......in fact, I'm not even THAT interested in Radiology; just a little bit. Ideally, I want to do something surgical, but without the bad hours of a General surgeon. That's why I am considering General Dentistry, OMFS, or Ophthalmology. Orthopedics is cool too, but again, they have really bad hours and I have a life to live that doesn't involve being in an operating room.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Which is cheaper? Do that. Paying off high amounts of debt will make you miserable.

I think having a job you don't like would be more miserable than having one you do like but with a bit more debt to pay off. Besides, we all know that dental school is more expensive than medical school now days, but then again, you can start paying off that debt 4-5 years earlier than your physician counterparts who will still be in their residency.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Basically what I'm thinking right now:

-If I go to medical school and do well, then I can get into Ophthalmology! If I don't do well, I end up having to match into a field I don't like( FM, IM, etc.)

-If I go to dental school and do well, I can get into Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery! If I don't do well, I can still open up a private practice office and be happy running my own business.

I would much rather be a GP Dentist than a GP Physician.......

 

[tooth knockn]

Basically what I'm thinking right now:

-If I go to medical school and do well, then I can get into Ophthalmology! If I don't do well, I end up having to match into a field I don't like( FM, IM, etc.)

-If I go to dental school and do well, I can get into Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery! If I don't do well, I can still open up a private practice office and be happy running my own business.

I would much rather be a GP Dentist than a GP Physician.......

Ok so there you go, become a general dentist


Posted using SDN Mobile

 

[BulovaInDent]

it is hard being a dentist these days with a large amount of loans on your back and start working with corp dentistry

most of my classmates are now broke and can't find a job in the major metro areas

 

[yappy]

Figure out if you want to be a medical doctor or dentist before any other thing comes into consideration.

You're tossing around specialties that have nothing to do with each other as possible career choices; this tells me you don't know what kind of physician you want to be yet. That's not a bad thing because it's impossible to know until you've rotated through a lot of specialties as a medical student.

If I were you I would go with your initial desire to treat systemic disease, evidenced by your interests before reading about the match, and go to medical school. Anyways, I'm only interpreting what you've written so I may be way off but I think you should go with your primary interest - the rest, such as specialty, will work itself out later when you have more information and experience.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

it is hard being a dentist these days with a large amount of loans on your back and start working with corp dentistry

most of my classmates are now broke and can't find a job in the major metro areas

Well, that complicates things.......that's basically my only fear of going into dentistry. I am scared to take out 300k of loans and end up working a 120k corporate job. Medical school would actually be cheaper, probably around 230k, and I would be making at least 200k depending upon which specialty I go into. Life sure is complicated, isn't it?

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Figure out if you want to be a medical doctor or dentist before any other thing comes into consideration.

You're tossing around specialties that have nothing to do with each other as possible career choices; this tells me you don't know what kind of physician you want to be yet. That's not a bad thing because it's impossible to know until you've rotated through a lot of specialties as a medical student.

If I were you I would go with your initial desire to treat systemic disease, evidenced by your interests before reading about the match, and go to medical school. Anyways, I'm only interpreting what you've written so I may be way off but I think you should go with your primary interest - the rest, such as specialty, will work itself out later when you have more information and experience.

Yeah, I'll do a bunch more shadowing and try to truly find what interests me more. Thanks for the advice! What are you going to do?

 

[Glimmer1991]

Well, that complicates things.......that's basically my only fear of going into dentistry. I am scared to take out 300k of loans and end up working a 120k corporate job. Medical school would actually be cheaper, probably around 230k, and I would be making at least 200k depending upon which specialty I go into. Life sure is complicated, isn't it?

Eh. I don't know many starving dentists. Just about ANY field is saturated nowadays. You might not get your absolute *~*~dream job~*~* right off the bat, but if you suck it up in the trenches for a few years, you can start your own practice. You might have to be willing to relocate (at least a little bit) to find the "sweet spot," but that's life.

You might make more as an MD... but I bet you might work a lot more, too.

 

[BulovaInDent]

Well, that complicates things.......that's basically my only fear of going into dentistry. I am scared to take out 300k of loans and end up working a 120k corporate job. Medical school would actually be cheaper, probably around 230k, and I would be making at least 200k depending upon which specialty I go into. Life sure is complicated, isn't it?

usually the dental schools themselves do not discuss this problem but for the last graduating class from my dental school, I do not see anyone even making a set salary for dentistry at corp dental offices

most of them make either x percent of their production (i.e. what they bring into the office) or they work as independent contractors of the corp chain

be aware of that so chances are, you might never get 120k at a corporate job in my area. you might make 60 to 80 k graduating from dental school if you are lucky

of course, if you are willing to work in more rural areas that changes the equation but just some stuff to keep in mind

 

[BulovaInDent]

Well, that complicates things.......that's basically my only fear of going into dentistry. I am scared to take out 300k of loans and end up working a 120k corporate job. Medical school would actually be cheaper, probably around 230k, and I would be making at least 200k depending upon which specialty I go into. Life sure is complicated, isn't it?

if I were you i would go into med instead of dentistry b/c most opportunities in dentistry are thru networking or the good old boys networks if you know what I mean

furthermore, dentistry has only very few specialities and if you want to specialize then you need to go into more debt

 

[Glimmer1991]

furthermore, dentistry has only very few specialities and if you want to specialize then you need to go into more debt

But some specialties are paid, right? If you don't have a huge debt from dental school, you can manage on ~50k a year. (Even better if a working spouse is in the picture.)

 

[kingenamel]

Figure out if you want to be a medical doctor or dentist before any other thing comes into consideration.

You're tossing around specialties that have nothing to do with each other as possible career choices; this tells me you don't know what kind of physician you want to be yet. That's not a bad thing because it's impossible to know until you've rotated through a lot of specialties as a medical student.

If I were you I would go with your initial desire to treat systemic disease, evidenced by your interests before reading about the match, and go to medical school. Anyways, I'm only interpreting what you've written so I may be way off but I think you should go with your primary interest - the rest, such as specialty, will work itself out later when you have more information and experience.

Bingo

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

usually the dental schools themselves do not discuss this problem but for the last graduating class from my dental school, I do not see anyone even making a set salary for dentistry at corp dental offices

most of them make either x percent of their production (i.e. what they bring into the office) or they work as independent contractors of the corp chain

be aware of that so chances are, you might never get 120k at a corporate job in my area. you might make 60 to 80 k graduating from dental school if you are lucky

of course, if you are willing to work in more rural areas that changes the equation but just some stuff to keep in mind

Oh, and that 300k would be for my In-State Dental school. I cannot imagine what the people with 400k are going to do.......it seems that the only ways to make Dentistry worth while is either specializing in OMFS or Endo, or opening up a private practice. Anything other than that and you will be paying off your loans forever.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Bingo

So if it is impossible to know which specialty you will like until you actually rotate through Medical school, then how could anyone make a quantitative decision on whether to go Dental or Medicine? After all, someone who is in Dental school has never gone through the rotations of Medical school......

 

[Glimmer1991]

So if it is impossible to know which specialty you will like until you actually rotate through Medical school, then how could anyone make a quantitative decision on whether to go Dental or Medicine? After all, someone who is in Dental school has never gone through the rotations of Medical school......

Here's how I've always kind of viewed it... When you go into dentistry, you've already chosen your medical specialty. And you're thereby guaranteed to have the specialty you like. 😀

 

[ncamc]

I really wouldn't call it a quantitative decision

 

[BulovaInDent]

yes George, you are right. therefore, I would ask anyone going into a private school to carefully consider the educational loans before starting in dental school

 

[BulovaInDent]

well George, have you ever shadowed a gp, endo or omfs specialist? you should consider doing so

also, you should shadow the specialiites in med that you were interested

 

[Glimmer1991]

If you rearrange the letters in Gregor, you actually do get George...

😉

 

[Ferneezy]

i don't know what the stats are for med, but i think i recall some 80% of licensed dentists are GPs. to that end, i would have OP shadow GPs (obvi) and the statistical equivalent on the med side before making the decision on which path to take. having a solid idea of what you may end up in regardless of your efforts in school would be a good thing.

 

[Silent Cool]

I am currently deciding whether to go to Dental school or Medical school. My heart was solely set on pursuing Medicine until I learned about the whole concept of "matching" into a specialty, and unfortunately, the only medical specialties I'm interested in happen to be highly competitive(Ophthalmology, Radiology). I would absolutely not be happy with being a Family Practice or Internal Medicine doctor, so I'm scared that if I went to Medical school and didn't score well enough on USMLE Step 1, then I wouldn't be able to practice in the area of Medicine I wanted. However, for Dentistry, I would be completely happy being a doing general practice at a private practice, but I would still have the option of doing something more surgical like Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery if I was competitive enough. What I'm basically saying is that I have no idea how competitive I will be for residency matching, so I have been telling myself that I should go with Dentistry because I have the safety net of enjoying my work as a GP. But deep down, I still think that being an Ophthalmologist would be more personally fulfilling for me. Hence, I am left not knowing what to do at all........


I just want to know how you guys dealt with the whole Med vs. Dent thing. I really need some advice from people who have been through this situation.

Aren't you, like, 12 or something?
Seriously, you have some time yet to decide as you are still a college student.

Honestly, the challenge of specializing in dentistry is overstated. In medicine you need a high step 1 and if you don't have it you are out of luck. Most dental students just want to be GPs.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

i don't know what the stats are for med, but i think i recall some 80% of licensed dentists are GPs. to that end, i would have OP shadow GPs (obvi) and the statistical equivalent on the med side before making the decision on which path to take. having a solid idea of what you may end up in regardless of your efforts in school would be a good thing.

Yeah, I have shadowed a GP Dentist, and I have seen GP Physicians many times too. I would like to shadow an OMFS and an Ophthalmologist though!

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Aren't you, like, 12 or something?
Seriously, you have some time yet to decide as you are still a college student.

Honestly, the challenge of specializing in dentistry is overstated. In medicine you need a high step 1 and if you don't have it you are out of luck. Most dental students just want to be GPs.

I have about a year or two before I apply(depending on when I take my MCAT or DAT). I guess that should be enough time......in your experience, do you think that matching into OMFS would be about the same difficulty as matching into Ophthalmology? Because from what you said, most people in Dental school want to by GPs, but it seems like everyone it Medical school wants to specialize?

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I really wouldn't call it a quantitative decision

Okay, then what were your criteria that made you not go to Medical school?

 

[Silent Cool]

I have about a year or two before I apply(depending on when I take my MCAT or DAT). I guess that should be enough time......in your experience, do you think that matching into OMFS would be about the same difficulty as matching into Ophthalmology? Because from what you said, most people in Dental school want to by GPs, but it seems like everyone it Medical school wants to specialize?

Matching into OMFS is far easier than matching into Ophtho.
You don't need a board score in dental school they way you do for Ophtho. To comfortably match Ophtho you will need a 230+, which is a challenge to get.
There are numerous anecdotes of people in the top 50% of their class matching into OMFS. You need to be willing to work hard to get into the field, but you don't need to be in the top 10%. Not even close.
The people against whom you are competing in medical school are generally much more competitive. Dental students may not want to admit it, but generally speaking medicine gets a brighter crowd. That and, as I said, most dental students just don't care all that much about specializing. I say this as someone who was admitted to both professions.

If Ophtho is your primary interest, go to dental school.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Matching into OMFS is far easier than matching into Ophtho.
You don't need a board score in dental school they way you do for Ophtho. To comfortably match Ophtho you will need a 230+, which is a challenge to get.
There are numerous anecdotes of people in the top 50% of their class matching into OMFS. You need to be willing to work hard to get into the field, but you don't need to be in the top 10%. Not even close.
The people against whom you are competing in medical school are generally much more competitive. Dental students may not want to admit it, but generally speaking medicine gets a brighter crowd. That and, as I said, most dental students just don't care all that much about specializing. I say this as someone who was admitted to both professions.

If Ophtho is your primary interest, go to dental school.

I just think that surgical sub-specialties are cool! I don't like sick people, but I do like "fixing" things with my hands. If you were admitted to both Dental and Medical school, which did you choose? And why? I want to know if your priorities are different from mine.

 

[Sublimazing]

Matching into OMFS is far easier than matching into Ophtho.
You don't need a board score in dental school they way you do for Ophtho. To comfortably match Ophtho you will need a 230+, which is a challenge to get.
There are numerous anecdotes of people in the top 50% of their class matching into OMFS. You need to be willing to work hard to get into the field, but you don't need to be in the top 10%. Not even close.
The people against whom you are competing in medical school are generally much more competitive. Dental students may not want to admit it, but generally speaking medicine gets a brighter crowd. That and, as I said, most dental students just don't care all that much about specializing. I say this as someone who was admitted to both professions.

If Ophtho is your primary interest, go to dental school.

I don't know that you can say it's "far easier". Didn't 85% of people ranking ophtho match last year? Whereas less than 70% did so for OMFS.

And the test is new...but there is certainly an avg cbse score of applicants who matched....in a few years the new "90" will be formally established.

And there's always the "hands skill" factor. If you're an academic genius you can cruise through med school...but even the smartest person can fail their clinical endo test over and over regardless of their drive/intelligence.

I am not diminishing how competitive ophtho is at all (mostly because i don't know) but OMFS is probably the most unique track in healthcare (only dual degree, only true operator/anesthetist, only dentists at the hospital everyday with mostly universal privileges)...so to make blanket statements comparing them to others is tricky.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I don't know that you can say it's "far easier". Didn't 85% of people ranking ophtho match last year? Whereas less than 70% did so for OMFS.

And the test is new...but there is certainly an avg cbse score of applicants who matched....in a few years the new "90" will be formally established.

And there's always the "hands skill" factor. If you're an academic genius you can cruise through med school...but even the smartest person can fail their clinical endo test over and over regardless of their drive/intelligence.

I am not diminishing how competitive ophtho is at all (mostly because i don't know) but OMFS is probably the most unique track in healthcare (only dual degree, only true operator/anesthetist, only dentists at the hospital everyday with mostly universal privileges)...so to make blanket statements comparing them to others is tricky.

Ophthalmology is only considered "moderately competitive" by what I've read online. So more competitive than Emergency Medicine, but not as much as Dermatology. So it seems that if I could match OMFS from Dental school, I could just as easily match into Ophthalmology from Medical school......

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Sure! CMMS (ref:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Medicare_and_Medicaid_Services) has primarily focused their cuts to the ROAD (and GI, Cards, Pain, etc) specialties since 2010 and using those cuts to boost primary care. If you go in with the expectation that your desired specialty could one day have average salaries to closer to IM and Psych would you still be interested in some of the fields you mentioned? Going into medicine without the desire to treat sick people is the wrong approach.

ref:http://bmctoday.net/retinatoday/201...avenue-updates-reimbursement-changes-for-2011 and http://www.jacr.org/article/S1546-1440(13)00617-0/abstract)

I said I don't "like" sick people; that is different from "not wanting to treat sick people". Like I said, I want to be in surgery so I can see the results of my work and quickly fix people's problems. I don't like the idea of acute symptom management of Family Medicine or Internal Medicine......But anyways, I would still be interested in Ophthalmology if it paid 200k-230k a year.

 

[Sublimazing]

I said I don't "like" sick people; that is different from "not wanting to treat sick people". Like I said, I want to be in surgery so I can see the results of my work and quickly fix people's problems. I don't like the idea of acute symptom management of Family Medicine or Internal Medicine......But anyways, I would still be interested in Ophthalmology if it paid 200k-230k a year.

I'm pretty sure that is an attainable salary 😉

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Well, if you're good to go with being a general dentist and don't like IM or FM then I'd say go for dentistry. If your heart is set on OMFS, there are ways to make your application strong just as you'd need to do for Ophtho. SOAP'ng in medicine sounds like it would suck if one couldn't match - a friend of mine applying to Orthopedics had this happen twice and SOAP'd into Radiology the second time but ended up loving where he's at. You can do an intern (prelim) year in OMFS to make up for class rank or board score deficits (as I've been told by OMFS faculty where I'm at) and reapply for the following year if it comes to that. The beauty of dentistry is that GPs can do a lot of what the specialists do in their scope of training so not getting into OMFS wouldn't be a deal breaker for most who are evaluating their options.

I think you are approaching this diligently!

Yeah, I heard about that intern year thing. So basically, you just spend a year as an intern in OMFS to show that you really are interested and capable of the profession, even though your class rank might have said otherwise? DOes this mean that an "average" student could potentially get in if they show enough effort and interest in the program? I heard that getting to know the program directors early on would be beneficial later on when you apply for a spot.

I'm not really into the Cosmetic aspect of OMFS, but I am highly interested in reconstructive surgery and implants. It seems like there are many career options for an OMFS depending on what type of work they want to do, and whether they want to be in private practice or in a hospital based setting. The variety seems very appealing to me!

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

The intern year helps alot provided one works extremely hard and humbly! Think of it as a year-long audition. Some programs have a history of taking their interns, too. The three interns from my school's class of 2013 matched this year with middle ranks and high 70s / low 80s numerical NDBE 1 scores - they might've had some other intangibles but those are the numbers I'm aware of. Connections with program directors does play a part, too - externships get you known by PDs and residents that have influence over applications (think soon-to-be chief residents).

Nice! Are there similar Internships for Medical school residencies, or do you just have to book it for your Step 1 and hope for the best? Oh, and BTW, are you going for OMFS? You seem to know a lot......

 

[Sublimazing]

Nice! Are there similar Internships for Medical school residencies, or do you just have to book it for your Step 1 and hope for the best? Oh, and BTW, are you going for OMFS? You seem to know a lot......

I assume you're talking about med school grads and not dual degree omfs...if so, there are similar pathways for med graduates that don't match/post match...and maybe someone a little more familiar can go through the nomeclature (ie categorical, non categorical, tri)

The one's i've run into during residency, however, either end up doing a year surgical internship or what boils down to a internal med internship...this seems excruciating to me...to do a year of hell and then still not be guaranteed anything...and especially the surg one...bc if you don't end up matching into a surg specialty it will probably be absolutely worthless

On this board almost all of us are going to be biased toward dental...but you seem interested in

1. Helping people
2. Being hands on
3. Lifestyle

And those 3 things are basically a sure thing in any branch of dentistry.

So get out there and shadow...(and don't fall into the common trap of shadowing only one gp, and one omfs, and one ophtho...bc you will definitely get a skewered view of those practices just seeing one practitioner)

Keep your grades up so you don't close any doors

And try to have as detailed a plan as possible (like pick out your most likely dental school, what type of residency you'd like and where, and then how and where you'd practice when you get out)

Good luck!

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I assume you're talking about med school grads and not dual degree omfs...if so, there are similar pathways for med graduates that don't match/post match...and maybe someone a little more familiar can go through the nomeclature (ie categorical, non categorical, tri)

The one's i've run into during residency, however, either end up doing a year surgical internship or what boils down to a internal med internship...this seems excruciating to me...to do a year of hell and then still not be guaranteed anything...and especially the surg one...bc if you don't end up matching into a surg specialty it will probably be absolutely worthless

On this board almost all of us are going to be biased toward dental...but you seem interested in

1. Helping people
2. Being hands on
3. Lifestyle

And those 3 things are basically a sure thing in any branch of dentistry.

So get out there and shadow...(and don't fall into the common trap of shadowing only one gp, and one omfs, and one ophtho...bc you will definitely get a skewered view of those practices just seeing one practitioner)

Keep your grades up so you don't close any doors

And try to have as detailed a plan as possible (like pick out your most likely dental school, what type of residency you'd like and where, and then how and where you'd practice when you get out)

Good luck!

3.7 GPA, so no problem there(yet?). Thanks for the advice though! I have started shadowing a GP, and I will continue to shadow him for a bit, and then find another GP to shadow. Luckily, there are three OMFS guys in my town, so I'll be sure to try and shadow them too!

 

[Contach]

I considered the same scenarios in college when deciding between dental and medical school. Your story resonates with me.

I knew I wanted to work with my hands, and saw myself in a surgical field with a good lifestyle. I looked at the medical specialties that could provide this and saw that they were super competitive. Then I looked around at my classmates applying for medicine and saw that they were incredibly gifted and I'd be competing with them toe-to-toe for these specialties. I thought that maybe I could do it, but what if I couldn't - what if I was an average medical student? I knew I wouldn't be happy with internal medicine or family medicine (or atleast what I thought family medicine was at that time) and I wasn't happy about the thought of treating very sick patients. We have a lot of similarities.

Anyways, I ended up choosing dental school. At the time, it was a difficult decision to make and even more difficult to admit to myself. I developed a complex, where I thought all my friends who were applying to med were doing it because they had romanticized ideas of what physicians actually did, and I felt they were being narrow-minded: if only they saw it like I saw it. A couple of times I got into some arguments, but shortly thereafter learned to evade the topic because there would only be losers on both sides once people have made up their mind (look at everyone on SDN who argues about this).

Now I'm in an OMFS residency and am thankful. There is about equal stress among my medical school classmates as compared with my dental school classmates. There are the super-stressed people, and the not-too-stressed people. Everyone manages to find a balance they are comfortable with eventually. Many will find that the balance will involve a lot less studying and may end up giving up any aspirations they once had to do a competitive residency (I saw this in both dental and medical school). It is the unfortunate truth of dental/medical residency applications - that grades are king, and some people's dreams get cut when they can't do it. Much like a runner has limits on how fast/far he/she can run, the same is true for professional school. This maximum limit, in both scenarios, is determined by motivation/drive/discipline as much as it is by innate ability. Everyone thinks they can study for hours on end and be productive, but it isn't that easy, so being real about your limits is important, but sometimes sad to think about.

As for my classmates from undergrad... all of them got into medical school and many of them have gained acceptance into competitive medical specialties (who would have known!). They say hindsight is 20/20, but I disagree, even now there is still no way to have known and no right answer. You can only think about it so much, then you have to take a leap of faith and be thankful for everything you do have.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I considered the same scenarios in college when deciding between dental and medical school. Your story resonates with me.

I knew I wanted to work with my hands, and saw myself in a surgical field with a good lifestyle. I looked at the medical specialties that could provide this and saw that they were super competitive. Then I looked around at my classmates applying for medicine and saw that they were incredibly gifted and I'd be competing with them toe-to-toe for these specialties. I thought that maybe I could do it, but what if I couldn't - what if I was an average medical student? I knew I wouldn't be happy with internal medicine or family medicine (or atleast what I thought family medicine was at that time) and I wasn't happy about the thought of treating very sick patients. We have a lot of similarities.

Anyways, I ended up choosing dental school. At the time, it was a difficult decision to make and even more difficult to admit to myself. I developed a complex, where I thought all my friends who were applying to med were doing it because they had romanticized ideas of what physicians actually did, and I felt they were being narrow-minded: if only they saw it like I saw it. A couple of times I got into some arguments, but shortly thereafter learned to evade the topic because there would only be losers on both sides once people have made up their mind (look at everyone on SDN who argues about this).

Now I'm in an OMFS residency and am thankful. There is about equal stress among my medical school classmates as compared with my dental school classmates. There are the super-stressed people, and the not-too-stressed people. Everyone manages to find a balance they are comfortable with eventually. Many will find that the balance will involve a lot less studying and may end up giving up any aspirations they once had to do a competitive residency (I saw this in both dental and medical school). It is the unfortunate truth of dental/medical residency applications - that grades are king, and some people's dreams get cut when they can't do it. Much like a runner has limits on how fast/far he/she can run, the same is true for professional school. This maximum limit, in both scenarios, is determined by motivation/drive/discipline as much as it is by innate ability. Everyone thinks they can study for hours on end and be productive, but it isn't that easy, so being real about your limits is important, but sometimes sad to think about.

As for my classmates from undergrad... all of them got into medical school and many of them have gained acceptance into competitive medical specialties (who would have known!). They say hindsight is 20/20, but I disagree, even now there is still no way to have known and no right answer. You can only think about it so much, then you have to take a leap of faith and be thankful for everything you do have.

I very much enjoyed reading your reply; I think we are very similar. I don't want to be in Medicine unless I can do some sort of surgical specialty. The problem is, I have no accurate way of knowing how well I would do in Medical school, so I feel that it would be a big risk to enter with the intent of going into Ophthalmology. However, with Dental school, I know I would be happy being a GP if I ended up not getting good enough grades to specialize in OMFS. Are you in a 4 or 6 year program? And also, did you match straight from Dental school, or did you have to complete an internship like some of the other posters mentioned? Thanks again!

 

[fellowstudent92]

I very much enjoyed reading your reply; I think we are very similar. I don't want to be in Medicine unless I can do some sort of surgical specialty. The problem is, I have no accurate way of knowing how well I would do in Medical school, so I feel that it would be a big risk to enter with the intent of going into Ophthalmology. However, with Dental school, I know I would be happy being a GP if I ended up not getting good enough grades to specialize in OMFS. Are you in a 4 or 6 year program? And also, did you match straight from Dental school, or did you have to complete an internship like some of the other posters mentioned? Thanks again!

Here's an argument for doing medicine from a financial perspective if you intended on specializing in dentistry:

Given that we know dental schools are four years long and are more expensive than medical schools, both paths will lead to specializing. Given that most dental specialties range from 2-3 years and HAVE To be paid for in tuition in addition to the tuition for dental school, this almost works out to the same amount of time spent to become an Emergency Medicine physician. Given that EM physicians get paid around 250K Pre-tax and dental specialties are probably a bit lower, on the 200K side pre-tax (with increasing upside potential), on their first few years out, wouldn't it be financially wiser to go the MD route? You will like have 500-600K from dental school and the speciality program whereas probably 300 K from the interest on the loans from medical school. This is only assuming you want to specialize in dentistry.

 

[fellowstudent92]

I very much enjoyed reading your reply; I think we are very similar. I don't want to be in Medicine unless I can do some sort of surgical specialty. The problem is, I have no accurate way of knowing how well I would do in Medical school, so I feel that it would be a big risk to enter with the intent of going into Ophthalmology. However, with Dental school, I know I would be happy being a GP if I ended up not getting good enough grades to specialize in OMFS. Are you in a 4 or 6 year program? And also, did you match straight from Dental school, or did you have to complete an internship like some of the other posters mentioned? Thanks again!

Here's an argument for doing medicine from a financial perspective if you intended on specializing in dentistry:

Given that we know dental schools are four years long and are more expensive than medical schools, both paths will lead to specializing. Given that most dental specialties range from 2-3 years and HAVE To be paid for in tuition in addition to the tuition for dental school, this almost works out to the same amount of time spent to become an Emergency Medicine physician. Given that EM physicians get paid around 250K Pre-tax and dental specialties are probably a bit lower, on the 200K side pre-tax (with increasing upside potential), on their first few years out, wouldn't it be financially wiser to go the MD route? You will like have 500-600K from dental school and the speciality program whereas probably 300 K from the interest on the loans from medical school. This is only assuming you want to specialize in dentistry.

 

[Sublimazing]

Here's an argument for doing medicine from a financial perspective if you intended on specializing in dentistry:

Given that we know dental schools are four years long and are more expensive than medical schools, both paths will lead to specializing. Given that most dental specialties range from 2-3 years and HAVE To be paid for in tuition in addition to the tuition for dental school, this almost works out to the same amount of time spent to become an Emergency Medicine physician. Given that EM physicians get paid around 250K Pre-tax and dental specialties are probably a bit lower, on the 200K side pre-tax (with increasing upside potential), on their first few years out, wouldn't it be financially wiser to go the MD route? You will like have 500-600K from dental school and the speciality program whereas probably 300 K from the interest on the loans from medical school. This is only assuming you want to specialize in dentistry.

Omfs doesn't charge tuition...ever...they pay 44-55k/year
Dental specialists can/do make a lot more than that...especially omfs

 

[Silent Cool]

Omfs doesn't charge tuition...ever...they pay 44-55k/year
Dental specialists can/do make a lot more than that...especially omfs

Yeah, but you also have to consider that a lot of people don't want to be surgeons, and if you want to make much bigger dollars, you need to BUY a practice, which is significantly more debt. An OMFS practice that nets the owner 450K will probably cost 700K. If you are a double degree OMFS from a private school (dent and med) then you probably already have about 800K of debt. Even a single-degree OMFS will still have 500K from a private school. The only specialties that typically pay a stipend during training are OMFS and Pedo. Practically all other training programs charge tuition.

I think that dentistry overall used to be a better deal when:
1) The supply was decreased in the 1980s
2) The cost of education was practically nothing and,
3) Training programs paid a stipend, as they used to. Dental school funding has since dried up significantly.
4) Opening a practice was as easy as hanging a shingle.

If you consider that many general dental grads do a GPR and then spend a couple of years as an associate, medicine is a better financial deal, especially if you end up at a cheap school.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Yeah, but you also have to consider that a lot of people don't want to be surgeons, and if you want to make much bigger dollars, you need to BUY a practice, which is significantly more debt. An OMFS practice that nets the owner 450K will probably cost 700K. If you are a double degree OMFS from a private school (dent and med) then you probably already have about 800K of debt. Even a single-degree OMFS will still have 500K from a private school. The only specialties that typically pay a stipend during training are OMFS and Pedo. Practically all other training programs charge tuition.

I think that dentistry overall used to be a better deal when:
1) The supply was decreased in the 1980s
2) The cost of education was practically nothing and,
3) Training programs paid a stipend, as they used to. Dental school funding has since dried up significantly.
4) Opening a practice was as easy as hanging a shingle.

If you consider that many general dental grads do a GPR and then spend a couple of years as an associate, medicine is a better financial deal, especially if you end up at a cheap school.

Okay, well I should make several things clear:
1. I will only do dentistry if I make it into my state school.
2. My parents are paying for my tuition.
3. If I ended up as a GP, I would start a private practice.
4. If I got into an OMFS program, I would probably work at a hospital once the residency is over.
5. Lifestyle is more important to me than salary, thus the lean towards dentistry.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Here's an argument for doing medicine from a financial perspective if you intended on specializing in dentistry:

Given that we know dental schools are four years long and are more expensive than medical schools, both paths will lead to specializing. Given that most dental specialties range from 2-3 years and HAVE To be paid for in tuition in addition to the tuition for dental school, this almost works out to the same amount of time spent to become an Emergency Medicine physician. Given that EM physicians get paid around 250K Pre-tax and dental specialties are probably a bit lower, on the 200K side pre-tax (with increasing upside potential), on their first few years out, wouldn't it be financially wiser to go the MD route? You will like have 500-600K from dental school and the speciality program whereas probably 300 K from the interest on the loans from medical school. This is only assuming you want to specialize in dentistry.

Emergency Medicine and Dentistry are very different careers though. I actually considered EM, and then I realized that the vast majority of what I would be doing on my shifts would be treating people who really have no business being in the ER(Not to mention all the drug seekers). Like I said earlier, I don't like sick people; I want to do something surgical.