Does CaRMs consider/value U.S LORs and experience?

[Blitz2006]

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or do they only care for canadian LORs and clinical experience?

I ask this because I am planning on doing my electives in the States...

TIA,

 

[Blitz2006]

Crap, sorry mods. Meant to put this in the Canada forum. You can move it there, thx.

 

[Giemsa]

or do they only care for canadian LORs and clinical experience?

The absolutely most important thing in getting a residency in Canada is to make connections with the program. Not doing an elective with the program is a big disadvantage. Programs are very interested in choosing residents who are sensible, competent and non-crazy. If you did an elective at the program and were viewed to be competent, enthusiastic and non-whiny, it will serve you very well when applying to the program.

If you are training at an American MD school, virtually all of your competition (Canadian med students) will have done electives at the program in question. If you haven't, you will very much be an unknown quantity - faceless, nameless. It won't necessarily blackball you, but it is a big disadvantage.

If this seems weird, you need to understand that there is no other way for program directors to assess Canadian residents. Most of our med schools report pass/fail - no grades. Dean's letters are perfunctory in most cases. We have no exams available at the time of the match. So basically the program directors make their decisions based on our clinical performance during electives and LORs.

So, in general the same goes for reference letters. A reference letter from Dr. Head Mucky-Muck at Harvard might seem impressive, but the local program director would much prefer getting a glowing reference letter from the program director in a neighbouring province. The reason is that the program directors probably know each other, are likely cordial, and in general trust each other not to send one another dud residents. On the other hand, Dr. Head Mucky-Muck is a complete unknown.

 

[Blitz2006]

Hey Giemsa,

Thanks again for your help in both forums. I'm definitly more familiar now on the gameplan required to match into CaRMs.

Cheers!

The absolutely most important thing in getting a residency in Canada is to make connections with the program. Not doing an elective with the program is a big disadvantage. Programs are very interested in choosing residents who are sensible, competent and non-crazy. If you did an elective at the program and were viewed to be competent, enthusiastic and non-whiny, it will serve you very well when applying to the program.

If you are training at an American MD school, virtually all of your competition (Canadian med students) will have done electives at the program in question. If you haven't, you will very much be an unknown quantity - faceless, nameless. It won't necessarily blackball you, but it is a big disadvantage.

If this seems weird, you need to understand that there is no other way for program directors to assess Canadian residents. Most of our med schools report pass/fail - no grades. Dean's letters are perfunctory in most cases. We have no exams available at the time of the match. So basically the program directors make their decisions based on our clinical performance during electives and LORs.

So, in general the same goes for reference letters. A reference letter from Dr. Head Mucky-Muck at Harvard might seem impressive, but the local program director would much prefer getting a glowing reference letter from the program director in a neighbouring province. The reason is that the program directors probably know each other, are likely cordial, and in general trust each other not to send one another dud residents. On the other hand, Dr. Head Mucky-Muck is a complete unknown.

 

[Giemsa]

I didn't realize you were a med student in the UK (I read it, I just didn't process the information).

In that case, you'd be classed as an IMG for the purposes of matching in Canada. You wouldn't be competing against Canadian medical students, but rather other Canadian IMGs.

The advice still stands, but the case of IMGs exams are used (at least at some programs, I can't speak for them all) to stratify applicants - specifically your score on the MCCEE and whatever USMLEs you have at that point. So do an elective at your desired program, if possible, but also do very well on your standardized exams.

Helpful hint:
It's very important to read the eligibility criteria on the CaRMS website (more criteria here) and make sure that you get your MCCEE and MCCQE* exams done with lots of time to spare.

*You do not HAVE to have passed the MCCQE I to apply via CaRMS - in fact, the Canadians won't have written in until May of their last year. However, if you can get it done in your fourth year this will be advantageous, since:

a) some schools use it as a filter because the number of applicants can be unmanageable b) you don't want to have to do it during your R1

 

[Blitz2006]

I didn't realize you were a med student in the UK (I read it, I just didn't process the information).

In that case, you'd be classed as an IMG for the purposes of matching in Canada. You wouldn't be competing against Canadian medical students, but rather other Canadian IMGs.

The advice still stands, but the case of IMGs exams are used (at least at some programs, I can't speak for them all) to stratify applicants - specifically your score on the MCCEE and whatever USMLEs you have at that point. So do an elective at your desired program, if possible, but also do very well on your standardized exams.

Helpful hint:
It's very important to read the eligibility criteria on the CaRMS website (more criteria here) and make sure that you get your MCCEE and MCCQE* exams done with lots of time to spare.

*You do not HAVE to have passed the MCCQE I to apply via CaRMS - in fact, the Canadians won't have written in until May of their last year. However, if you can get it done in your fourth year this will be advantageous, since:

a) some schools use it as a filter because the number of applicants can be unmanageable b) you don't want to have to do it during your R1

Thanks,

But according to my research, I can only do MCCEE in my final year (5th year), therefore leaving me to do MCCQE after I apply for CaRMs...correct me if I"m wrong.

 

[Giemsa]

But according to my research, I can only do MCCEE in my final year (5th year), therefore leaving me to do MCCQE after I apply for CaRMs...correct me if I"m wrong.

I honestly don't know.

But if all IMGs are in the same boat, then it's OK.

 

[med2UCC]

Thanks,

But according to my research, I can only do MCCEE in my final year (5th year), therefore leaving me to do MCCQE after I apply for CaRMs...correct me if I"m wrong.

This is absolutely correct. You have to be in the last 9 months of your program (ie last year) to write the MCCEE, and you can only write the MCCQE1 after that. It is impossible to get the MCCQE1 done before you apply for residency unless you do an intern year (Ireland) or do the foundation years in the UK. Programs use the MCCEE to decide which IMG's to interview. The fact that you are a recent graduate gives you a huge advantage over IMG's who have worked in their country of origin for several years before deciding to more to Canada so you will probably get interviews and match if you apply broadly. Which fields are you thinking of applying in? You need high MCCEE scores to apply for specialty programs, but lower ones are acceptable for family medicine. However, the reality is that the higher your score on the EE the better you will look to any program, so if you haven't done the exam yet, prepare for it.
If you have any other questions about the whole IMG process, feel free to PM me. The whole process is a bit of a drag but take heart - almost everyone matches. Cheers,
M

 

[JPR22]

The whole process is a bit of a drag but take heart - almost everyone matches. Cheers,
M

Thats not entirely true for IMGs. Statistically an IMG going into carms can expect NOT to match.
http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/37MatchReport_E.pdf

 

[med2UCC]

Thats not entirely true for IMGs. Statistically an IMG going into carms can expect NOT to match.
http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/37MatchReport_E.pdf

But Canadian born IMG's coming from a reputable school and applying right out of med school have a much better match rate than IMG's applying years after graduation. I have read the stats and they frightened me too when I was an IMG applying to come back to Canada. However, reality is that in my year only one person did not match, and we concluded that was mostly because he was too selective. Over my 5 years in Cork only one person did not match year after year. He was trying for ortho, and each year he was looking less desireable to programs because he was one more year out of med school. The other Irish schools have similar match rates. Reality is that for most of the Canadian IMG's the odds are much better.
Cheers,
M