That's pretty bad math. You're not counting in the 4 years of lost income for being a medical student and the low salary of a resident. You're not accounting for the time value of money/all of the lost interest on investing. You're paying a higher effective tax rate at $150,000 vs. $100,000. You're also looking at having malpractice insurance and the stress of knowing that you are in boatloads of debt and working a ton.
Keep it simple. Minimize debt. Go to a reasonably priced med school and live frugally. It's not that hard. You don't deserve a new car. You don't deserve to eat out. You don't deserve nice clothes. I have classmates that are living way beyond their means and it will come back to bit them.
Financial trouble is one of the leading causes of divorce. Seriously, why add extra stress to your life so you have a piece of paper with a fancy name on it? I went to the cheapest med school I could and have never looked back. I did well and got all the interviews at the big name residencies and couldn't be happier with where I'm going. I also couldn't be happier knowing that since I kept my debt so low I could pick any field, do residency in any city, pursue any fellowship, practice in any city, etc. I'm also thrilled to know that (if I don't pay my student loans off by the end of residency/fellowship) it should only take a few months of being an attending to pay them off.
Agreed.
People who brush off debt have never had any. Talk to anyone with a 300 or 400k loan @ 5 points above current mortgage rates and ask them if "it matters that much".
Debt = shackles
No debt = freedom
Seriously guys, stop talking to broke students to get financial advice. See someone who either "A. Has money" or "B. Knows something about money". Your school financial advisors and students will NOT be of help here. Heck, even most docs won't be of help. There is a doc who writes a blog called the White Coat Investor on SDN who seemed smart - also some of the anesthesia guys seem to know their $ and cents.
The counter argument: Well, we still will make a good income and pay it off. Well, true. But that doesn't mean that it's not important. You can live post-chemo therapy, that doesn't mean it's good for your body.
I said that you would pay more than double the loan...and you don't have 400k (I don't know why you would have 400k total in loans...) in debt at the start of your training, so all of it wouldn't be accruing debt for ten years (also, notice that FM/IM don't train for 10 years, not counting undergrad since I was comparing it to a six figure salary). Also, most doctors won't make 150,000/yr for 30 years, they'll make more than that not even accounting for the fact that salaries will likely go up with inflation and experience. Average FM salary is 200,000 of all physicians according to the AAMC, obviously actual rates are variable. Also, notice I was comparing the average starting salary of the lowest paid medical specialty to an amount 40,000 more than the starting salaries of engineers, one of the highest paid professionals that only have undergrad degrees.
You both mention the fact that people can invest money, but you seem to think that physicians are incapable of investing their money. We can do that too. We can also pay off our debt quicker than in 20 years. I didn't even add in the residency pay...I was considering it lost time to training and we still come out ahead.
I'm not saying we shouldn't fight for our wages. We are among the most intelligent and highly trained individuals on the planet, we want to attract the brightest people into medicine, and as such we should be compensated. Most FM doctors are in the top 5% of earners in America according to the US census.
My point wasn't that we are overpaid or underpaid, but we are not getting screwed.
I never said we are getting screwed, just that you can't say - "oh yeah, I'll make 3.5 million in my career - debt isn't that important". That's the wrong attitude.
Yes we can pay it off and that's fine. What me and the other poster are saying is: MINIMIZE YOUR DEBT. We weren't saying doctors are getting screwed. Also, making 100k at a good job - you can probably come close to even. I don't care to do the calculations, but they have been done and it works out. I don't really look at FM and say, top __% earner because they trained a LONG TIME - they are in the top 1% of hours to train before they work, so it's understood they will be high in the income level comparatively. It's also the only job that asks you to take in 200-300k in debt to practice it.
Anyway, I've seen these arguments played out. We're both saying things that aren't mutually exclusive - which turns into a multipage argument without any true disagreements - so I'd rather not venture there.
One things I do have a problem with is this though:
I'm not saying we shouldn't fight for our wages. We are among the most intelligent and highly trained individuals on the planet, we want to attract the brightest people into medicine, and as such we should be compensated. Most FM doctors are in the top 5% of earners in America according to the US census.
I know we work and train hard, and some of us are great at memorizing crap - but to say we are the most intelligent and highly trained people on the planet? That makes me want to vomit. Let's be realistic. We have a hard job and we work hard - and some of us are smart. That's it.
