Does it frustrate you when an animal professional...

[sumstorm]

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Gives out advice that essentially tells people to disregard vet advice?

I don't know why it rubs me the wrong way, but I just read the following by a respected dog trainer:

"Don't listen to your vet who is taught nutrition by Science Diet and Purina when they are in school."

This was part of a diatribe about the horrors of kibble and the fact that nothing would be wrong, apparently, with her foster dog if it had been fed raw all of its life.

Note, the foster dog is a former pet toy poodle, teacup style, likely a pet store purchase (potentially a puppy mill dog) that is 10 years old, and has had minimal vet care from previous owners.

I hear these sorts of comments from trainers, groomers, even techs, and it just irritates me. I don't hear nurses or physical therapists or hair stylists saying 'doctors knows nothing about diet and nutrition.' Why, when it comes to animals, are there so many self appointed experts? I suppose it shouldn't suprise me when a self appointed expert is the guru of animal behavior on TV.

Of course, when I pointed out the inaccuracy of this comment, she was defensive and hostile. She also said that we are the only country that has a kibble industry.

It isn't necessarily the inaccuracy that bothers me...it is the self professing 'I know better than anyone with any education and I will share my expert knowledge with everyone and discredit an entire profession.'

 

[bakanoisha]

The uneducated passionate can be dangerously stupid at times. LOL. This reminds me of a time, back when I was personal training for a Power House Gym, when a high producing trainer decided to hold a womens health seminar in order to sell more training packages. As she ranted and raved attempting to win peoples trust, she told everyone not to always believe the nutrition advice given by physicians (which is fine... physicians aren't nutritionists) and then goes on to explain "because they don't take all of the anatomy and physiology and all that". <- LOLOLOL I almost had to leave the room because I was so embrassed for her. She sounded like a total tool.

 

[sumstorm]

It doesn't bother me as much when someone says not to listen to every vet or every suggestion. Just the entire disregard for the profession...much like the example you gave.

 

[BeagleOne]

I'm afraid you'll have to get used to it. It's amazing the number of people who feel that the groomer/breeder/trainer/dogwalker/shelter board member/random person at the dog park knows more than the vet, and/or believe that vets are only in it for the money.

Sad, but true.

 

[sumstorm]

Assuming I go into companion animal practice.

And it isn't the misinformed client in this case....this is a trainer who is very good as a trainer. Does amazing work with dogs, including aggression and anxiety cases. I think that is why it disturbs me....I can't chalk this up to general ignorance or such. This is an intelligent individual who is very well educated about canine behavior and learning theory, she could pass most ethology classes, and her results are impressive.

It is kind of like having an orthodontist discrediting the entire field of human medicine.

 

[Bill59]

Yes, it's frustrating but I'm not sure who is more frustrating -- the people giving the bad advice or the owners who believe them instead of listening to a veterinarian.

 

[ckgilabert]

do you guys watch bonnie hunt?

she had a dog trainer on her show that said that all dogs that are on a homecooked diet are malnourished. then bonnie hunt was like "i took my dog to the vet and he set the diet" and the dog trainer said "no, your dog is malnourished".


if i were her vet...i'd be really mad.

anyway, the ONLY time i gave out advice that was against what a veterinarian said....was when my friend told me that her vet said to let her dog have a litter of puppies because it will calm her down. i FLIPPED out! i basically told my friend that her vet is stupid and that her dog just needs exercise and training.

 

[lailanni]

i basically told my friend that her vet is stupid and that her dog just needs exercise and training.

Or a spay. That couldn't hurt either .... 🙂

 

[Ben and Me]

My favorite example? We had a client head over to NCSU for a nutrition consult (as in with a boarded veterinary nutritionist). They then stopped at a local "natural" pet store on the way home to see if they carried the food the nutritionist had recommended.

The pet store owner's advice? "Don't listen to State, they don't know what they're talking about, I'm a 'nutritionist.'" Of course, that was probably because he doesn't carry Hills...

Now, I've been in said pet store. And the only evidence that the owner is a nutritionist is some certificate hanging on the wall...I can't recall what it said off the top of my head but my guess is that it probably says he attended some 1 day web seminar on nutrition. And even if it is a higher quality program...Really? That guy is going to tell people to disregard the info they just got from the board certified nutritionist at the vet school?

🙄

 

[shelterURIgirl]

Hmm. I think the human medicine world actually has it pretty bad. There is a plethora of information available on the net, and communication between large groups of people harboring the same complaints are highly prevalent and effortlessly maintained through the use of forums, blogs, etc.

Now human doctors have patients questioning their diagnoses, treatments, etc like never before, and in addition to all this, there is a huge lack of distrust between the medical field and general population. To top it all off, the human medicine field is being caught up in a huge, twisted black cloud of political "healthcare" reform. Lets all take a moment and just appreciate that our field is not there *yet*.

I also find it annoying when non professionals disregard veterinarians, but I think we should (as a profession) not expect people to trust and respect us just because we hold a 4 year medical degree. If our clients are choosing to listen to non professional over us, what does that tell you about the reputation of our own profession? Sometimes I think its good when people question and push a profession. The competition for our clients trust may distract some pets from getting ideal care, but it may also unite us as a profession and make us stronger in the future.

Just a thought!

 

[sumstorm]

I also find it annoying when non professionals disregard veterinarians, but I think we should (as a profession) not expect people to trust and respect us just because we hold a 4 year medical degree. If our clients are choosing to listen to non professional over us, what does that tell you about the reputation of our own profession? Sometimes I think its good when people question and push a profession. The competition for our clients trust may distract some pets from getting ideal care, but it may also unite us as a profession and make us stronger in the future.

Just a thought!

I think, when someone starts spreading lies, there is a problem, and that if you have to lie to people to garner their trust, then the trust is based on a fallacy. I believe it is a lie that all vets learn nutrition from kibble producing companies. Considering NCSU requires a nutrition class even before admission, I can almost guarantee that our education on nutrition isn't entirely dependent or guided by kibble companies.

Obviously, I wasn't popular for pointing this out to this person's professional circle, and that if this point is inaccurate (and to me, this would be an easy point to check up on....there aren't that many vet schools) what else is inaccurate? I think there is something to what you say about trust...but I also think there is something to be said for people who drink the kool-aid. Who want the easy answer, the cheap answer, or someone else to blame...and the 'high payed' provessional is an easy target.

In this case, the woman is upset because she is paying a vet alot of money to fix the dentition of a 10yo foster poodle who had a rough life. Rather than blame the previous owners, or the rescue that won't pay for such measures, or the pet store, etc...she is laying blame at the feet of vets. My belief is that in her mind paying a vet $$$ is linked to vets recommending kibble, which caused the deterioration. In other words, she believes vets are acting DIRECTLY AGAINST the best interest of pets, harming the welfare of these animals intentionally, to keep their business and generate profit later on. I admit, she didn't say it that way, but she isn't out discrediting breeders, or owners who don't provide adequate care, etc.

This was shortly after she asked me if I could get her prescription eye drops for another foster dog. I explained that it was inappropriate and that she needed to take the dog to see a vet. She wanted the drops because the dog had thick, crusty discharge out of both eyes. I explained that there could be quite a few reasons for this, and that damage could occur if meds are used improperly. She told me she was absolutly certain this dog doesn't have any scratches or abrasions on its eyes and that the discharge was due to detoxification because it is not in a healthy environment and on healthy food, and now it's body is ridding itself of all the toxins. She was angry with me that I wouldn't, essentially, steal this, and that I cautioned, in a group setting, that doing so isn't legal in many places.

So odd, heart is in the right place, but unable to even distinguish that something she is told may not be true (all vets receive all nutritonal education from pet food companies, and all kibble ruins dogs teeth, and raw detoxifies dogs.) It greatly offended her that I feed raw and kibble and dehydrated raw, all depending on what is happening at any given time.

I do realize that some of this is also fall out from the various food recalls.

 

[JustCats]

Don't you hate it when an "animal professional" gives out advice that essentially tells people to disregard vet advice?

No. I don't hate it. From my experience as an "animal professional," specifically in relation to cats, a lot of vets don't stay current on treatment and vaccination protocols, etc. I think that because cats are underrepresented as veterinary patients so it's more difficult for vets to stay current and there's less incentive to do so. I know I spend more time reading cat-related journal articles than most vets have time to do, and any animal care professional can do the same. Most of the info available to vets is available to everyone willing to spend the money for a subscription to a journal database.

I was just visiting my parents and their vet recommended their apparently healthy new stray cat be euthanized on the basis of a positive FELV Idexx SNAP test, stating that the test is "almost 100% accurate." It's actually only about 73.5% accurate and since only 30-40% of cats with primary viremia become persistantly infected, that means there's about a 30% chance that a cat with a positive Idexx SNAP will actually develop FELV. The vet didn't know about the research. My parents chose not to euthanize and to have the cat restested by IFA in a couple of months. Had I not been there they would have followed what I consider to be bad advice without question.

 

[sunshinevet]

Yes, I do hate it. I had a woman call me up the other day (at a vet clinic) wanting her daughters beagle euthanased, because it was aggressive, and was told by some breeders that the underlying problem was that her daughters beagle wasn't a "real" one, because it still had its dewclaws, and all real beagles get their dewclaws removed. After a bit more digging, i discovered that this poor beagle lives in a sharehouse where the owner is never home, and so is never exercised/engaged. After recommending that she rehome the dog to someone that would a) have the time to exercise it and b) have the time and inclination to undergo behaviour modifying therapy, i still dont think she was convinced...

 

[jglovicz]

No. I don't hate it. From my experience as an "animal professional," specifically in relation to cats, a lot of vets don't stay current on treatment and vaccination protocols, etc. I think that because cats are underrepresented as veterinary patients so it's more difficult for vets to stay current and there's less incentive to do so. I know I spend more time reading cat-related journal articles than most vets have time to do, and any animal care professional can do the same. Most of the info available to vets is available to everyone willing to spend the money for a subscription to a journal database.

I was just visiting my parents and their vet recommended their apparently healthy new stray cat be euthanized on the basis of a positive FELV Idexx SNAP test, stating that the test is "almost 100% accurate." It's actually only about 73.5% accurate and since only 30-40% of cats with primary viremia become persistantly infected, that means there's about a 30% chance that a cat with a positive Idexx SNAP will actually develop FELV. The vet didn't know about the research. My parents chose not to euthanize and to have the cat restested by IFA in a couple of months. Had I not been there they would have followed what I consider to be bad advice without question.

Perhaps this is more common with cats (I really don't know...I've taken my cats to a 'cat only' clinic and, knock on wood, I really haven't had health concerns), but I think there are old fashioned vets in all areas that don't keep up with the rapidly-changing technology in many general practices...I have certainly met 'old fashioned' large animal and equine vets that don't perform certain procedures or aren't familiar with certain treatments/testing/etc. Although if you have a good vet, they can hopefully refer you to someone who is more up-to-speed.

 

[JustCats]

I think the take home message is that bad information can come from any source, even vets. Question everything.

 

[Trilt]

...but while questioning, please don't trust a random website (or youtube video, as demonstrated recently) that tells you that an entire profession is composed of nothing more than power-hungry individuals looking to make a quick buck on jabbing your pet. Or that feeding pure ground beef is good for your pet.

Question things, and search out answers by reaching out to good resources... such as a veterinary student you might know, in your case. 🙂 Too many people search in all the wrong, unqualified places.

 

[JustCats]

Ah, yeah. Unfortunately, I've been known to give out bad info on occasion also. 😳

Question things, and search out answers by reaching out to good resources... such as a veterinary student you might know, in your case. 🙂

 

[bakaduin]

Here's a good one for you:

Lady comes in two weeks ago for some vaccines and an exam. Vet tells her the dog has an ear infection and shows her the brown exudate we are all familiar with. She is not convinced and declines any medication. Comes in again today for a reason I can't remember and we point out again that the ears are infected and she declines treatment. She comes back 2 hours later and says she wants to treat the ears because she took the dog to the groomer and the groomer said they looked infected........

 

[rileyroo]

Here's a good one for you:

Lady comes in two weeks ago for some vaccines and an exam. Vet tells her the dog has an ear infection and shows her the brown exudate we are all familiar with. She is not convinced and declines any medication. Comes in again today for a reason I can't remember and we point out again that the ears are infected and she declines treatment. She comes back 2 hours later and says she wants to treat the ears because she took the dog to the groomer and the groomer said they looked infected........

great...taking medical advice from groomers. one of the clinics i worked at was next door to a groomer. i can't count how many times dogs were brought to us after that particular groomer cut them. once she cut the tip of the ear off of a yorkie.

 

[StealthDog]

great...taking medical advice from groomers.

I don't see anything wrong with the groomer advising the woman to go to her vet, though. I would have an issue if she said "Your dog has an ear infection, use mineral oil/motor oil/hydrogen peroxide to treat it." It stinks that she wouldn't listen to the vet in the first place, but at least someone was able to convince her that her dog needed treatment.

 

[rileyroo]

It stinks that she wouldn't listen to the vet in the first place, but at least someone was able to convince her that her dog needed treatment.

that's what i was referring to. that she was told more than once by the vet that the dog needed to be treated for an ear infection... i agree, there is nothing wrong with groomers saying an animal needs to be checked. but it's frustrating that she wouldn't listen to the vet to begin with. either way, at least she returned to have the dog treated.